Brazil: Woman gets beaten to death because of rumours on the internet

[ScoutBr0]

This is something you'd expect from the middle ages.

[zukriuchen]

[QUOTE=Javascript;44754705]Can a huehue give us a rundown as to [I]why [/I]Brazil is so fucked up?[/QUOTE]

the government has always had a "damage control" mentality, when instead they should be focusing on preventing that damage from being done in the first place. we build (or at least used to build) more prisons than schools, for example.

besides, there's plenty of inequality and that leads to plenty of extremes. afaik, the richest 1% of the population have ~15% of all household income

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=Javascript;44754674]Hoping the IOC will realize how fucking terrible of an idea letting Brazil host is, iirc they've barely done any preparations[/QUOTE]

I still wonder why would they build and prepare stadiums that will never ever be used again for such events when every sick person has to wait on the floor when in a hospital.

Those priorities...

[Propane Addict]

Fucking teamkilling Brazilians.

[Netsui]

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44755442]funny you say that, because brazilians in general are friendly compared to most IRL[/QUOTE]

It's often for Brazilians to immigrate to Portugal and I can confirm that there's nothing more fun that having a random Brazilian lady come up and talk to you while both of you wait for a bus

[Explosions]

[QUOTE=J!NX;44754834]to be fair, a poor crime rate is merely a side effect of a low level of education

I think shit education is what runs any country. Really, it's the root of it all.[/QUOTE]

A lot of people have no ability to access education in Brazil because they are forced to work from a very young age and have no time for school. Lack of opportunity is what really underlines most of the problems.

[Curls]

[QUOTE=Explosions;44757509]A lot of people have no ability to access education in Brazil because they are forced to work from a very young age and have no time for school. Lack of opportunity is what really underlines most of the problems.[/QUOTE]

I imagine that would do it then

[Javascript]

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44755377]while this is fucked up, you make it sound as if shit like this happens only in brazil.

to give a rundown of centuries of history is kinda hard, i can tell you however that brazil never had particularly good education for the population at large(only for the rich elite), and we're A VERY conservative country, to the contrary of what it may seem from the outside or even the inside(people generally like to pretend they're "progressive" only), to make things even "better", our dictatorship pretty much forbade sociology and philosophy during the dictatorship and put "social sciences(lol)" in its place, which only made things worse, and only a few years ago, it became standard on schools again, so you're stuck with a people that don't understand politics, and only now are starting learn the ropes.

ironically in part, thanks to our much maligned "left"-wing government, which has been striving to make some improvements to brazilian education, even if not perfect, which also everyone blames for everything ever, as if they were both in power and had absolute power for a century or something over brazil. :v:

also our elite pretty much sees themselves as nearly aristocrats, and in a way they're kinda correct(look up coronelismo, if you're interested which still exists to some extend), only way corruption in brazil will be improved, is by removing the old guard, which i honestly doubt will ever happen.[/QUOTE]

this is exactly the kind of explanation I wanted, thank you.

[InfectedPotato]

Oh my actual fucking god.
When he just brings down that plank on her head. Christ.

[EpicEcko]

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44756381]the government has always had a "damage control" mentality, when instead they should be focusing on preventing that damage from being done in the first place. we build (or at least used to build) more prisons than schools, for example.

besides, there's plenty of inequality and that leads to plenty of extremes. afaik, the richest 1% of the population have ~15% of all household income[/QUOTE]

No, not at all. During our previous president's government, Lula, we had created a program to give poor people money so they can sustain their children until they get enough money from their jobs. It already helped 40 million people and keeps increasing.

We had many problems in the past, especially at 1973 with the oil crisis, but we keept going forward since the 50' when most of the population lived in the countryside. The coup from 1964 also helped to slow down the pace of our national companies( they even closed some with fake court orders ) and interrupted the base reforms that the Goulart government was going to make before he had to leave in exile( assassinated in 1976 ).
So basically the people who planned the coup did not want the government in the health care, building more schools, and so on; but building huge roads crossing the amazon, which never got finished. The coup also made a generation who lived our first world cup at 1958, with an incredible team; saw many of our greatest writers and composers being at their best moment; the industry was growing at astonishing 15% per year; a new capital in the heart of the country was being built, creating an increasing urbanization of the countryside; That whole generation lived in terror for more than 20 years.

The generation that lived after the dictatorship was influenced by rock music, started to buy imported cars in a large scale( at that moment the chance of having a national automaker company was over ) and decided to live the globalization.

A considerable part of the nacionalism from before 64' was over, and now all we see on the media is bad news every day, always something to complain about, never talking about the huge investiments from the government on many different social areas. Sometimes i turn on the tv and all i see is "two people got robbed and one got killed last night" with commentators saying the whole country does not have this, completely sucks in that, and stuff like that. All that generalization of our social problems made people, mainly from the middle class, have that excessive pessimism about Brazil( i dont have to say that the whole media supports the right-wing, even our main tv station was created in the "basements" of the coup ), as you can see from the opinions of a good portion of brazilians on the internet.

Its not like we dont have poor people, cities that do not have proper health care or schools, but its hard to keep progressing while the population is growing exponentially. The corruption here is the same as in the rest of the world, but the media insists on joining several specific problems and says that the country as a whole has this or that particular problem. The biggest tournament in the world

Our country is fully capable of performing the world cup, the stadiums will be ready when the world cup start and, most likely, Brazil will be champion.

[zukriuchen]

[QUOTE=EpicEcko;44769493]No, not at all. During our previous president's government, Lula, we had created a program to give poor people money so they can sustain their children until they get enough money from their jobs. It already helped 40 million people and keeps increasing.[/quote]
and how is that not "damage control"? that's not preventing anything. instead, i think the program that supports families with children as long as they're in school should be getting more attention.

[quote]Our country is fully capable of performing the world cup[/quote]
debatable. do you not think the money could have been used for other things?
[quote]and, most likely, Brazil will be champion.[/quote]
not relevant

[jp_rsardeto]

[QUOTE=EpicEcko;44769493]No, not at all. During our previous president's government, Lula, we had created a program to give poor people money so they can sustain their children until they get enough money from their jobs. It already helped 40 million people and keeps increasing.

We had many problems in the past, especially at 1973 with the oil crisis, but we keept going forward since the 50' when most of the population lived in the countryside. The coup from 1964 also helped to slow down the pace of our national companies( they even closed some with fake court orders ) and interrupted the base reforms that the Goulart government was going to make before he had to leave in exile( assassinated in 1976 ).
So basically the people who planned the coup did not want the government in the health care, building more schools, and so on; but building huge roads crossing the amazon, which never got finished. The coup also made a generation who lived our first world cup at 1958, with an incredible team; saw many of our greatest writers and composers being at their best moment; the industry was growing at astonishing 15% per year; a new capital in the heart of the country was being built, creating an increasing urbanization of the countryside; That whole generation lived in terror for more than 20 years.

The generation that lived after the dictatorship was influenced by rock music, started to buy imported cars in a large scale( at that moment the chance of having a national automaker company was over ) and decided to live the globalization.

A considerable part of the nacionalism from before 64' was over, and now all we see on the media is bad news every day, always something to complain about, never talking about the huge investiments from the government on many different social areas. Sometimes i turn on the tv and all i see is "two people got robbed and one got killed last night" with commentators saying the whole country does not have this, completely sucks in that, and stuff like that. All that generalization of our social problems made people, mainly from the middle class, have that excessive pessimism about Brazil( i dont have to say that the whole media supports the right-wing, even our main tv station was created in the "basements" of the coup ), as you can see from the opinions of a good portion of brazilians on the internet.

Its not like we dont have poor people, cities that do not have proper health care or schools, but its hard to keep progressing while the population is growing exponentially. The corruption here is the same as in the rest of the world, but the media insists on joining several specific problems and says that the country as a whole has this or that particular problem. The biggest tournament in the world

Our country is fully capable of performing the world cup, the stadiums will be ready when the world cup start and, most likely, Brazil will be champion.[/QUOTE]

This is one of the most hilarious posts I have ever seem.

The program to give poor people money is debatable, to begin with. It doesn't really work. Some people get "parked" at their conditions because of this program and some even want to have more children and get stuck on poverty just to receive this kind of benefit. It's just a way of buying the votes of these poor and ignorant people.

And for a country to invest so much on a World Cup is because everything else (healthcare, security, etc) is already good enough. This really IS NOT the case here.

I also couldn't care less about Brazil being champion

[EpicEcko]

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44769642]and how is that not "damage control"? that's not preventing anything. instead, i think the program that supports families with children as long as they're in school should be getting more attention.
[/QUOTE]

The program does exactly that, as you can see in the government's website:
[URL="http://www.mds.gov.br/bolsafamilia/condicionalidades"]http://www.mds.gov.br/bolsafamilia/condicionalidades[/URL]

[QUOTE]Our country is fully capable of performing the world cup[/QUOTE]

I think there could be more investments in specific areas that have the worst health and educational ratings, but the most important thing here is that the investments destined to create social reforms come from a budget specified by the government, while the world cup has a different budget that aims at a completely different objective, the football, as it represents internationally our nation and is also the biggest tournament in the world. There are many plans for the economic area, the social area, the entertainment area, and each one has its rhythm.

[editline]10th May 2014[/editline]

[QUOTE=jp_rsardeto;44769888]This is one of the most hilarious posts I have ever seem.

The program to give poor people money is debatable, to begin with. It doesn't really work. Some people get "parked" at their conditions because of this program and some even want to have more children and get stucked on poverty just to receive this kind of benefit. It's just a way of buying the votes of these poor and ignorant people.

And for a country to invest so much on a World Cup is because everything else (healthcare, security, etc) is already good enough. This really IS NOT the case here.

I also couldn't care less about Brazil being champion[/QUOTE]

The program does work, it has been working for more than 10 years. The people you cited, as i said in my previous post, belong to specific situations, but the news make it sound like the whole program doesnt works, people dont like and things like that. About the investments i just talked about it above.

[zukriuchen]

[QUOTE=EpicEcko;44769897]The program does exactly that, as you can see in the government's website:
[URL="http://www.mds.gov.br/bolsafamilia/condicionalidades"]http://www.mds.gov.br/bolsafamilia/condicionalidades[/URL][/quote]
"should be getting more attention" not "should exist"
[quote]I think there could be more investments in specific areas that have the worst health and educational ratings, but the most important thing here is that the investments destined to create social reforms come from a budget specified by the government, while the world cup has a different budget that aims at a completely different objective, the football, as it represents internationally our nation and is also the biggest tournament in the world. There are many plans for the economic area, the social area, the entertainment area, and each one has its rhythm.[/QUOTE]
who honestly cares what it represents? it's still money that could be spent on better things. also, are you seriously telling me that you believe the budget for sports/entertainment would've been the same, was it not for the world cup?

[EpicEcko]

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44769926]"should be getting more attention" not "should exist"

who honestly cares what it represents? it's still money that could be spent on better things. also, are you seriously telling me that you believe the budget for sports/entertainment would've been the same, was it not for the world cup?[/QUOTE]

The program itself has a few flaws, as every other social program have, its just that here they tend to create a smoke where there is no fire. These flaws are specific situations, as i said 40 million people got helped by the program, and the few that had problems with it or took advantages from it are the ones we see in the newspaper.
I dont know if you have watched the 1970 World Cup, where Brazil won not only the cup but also all the games, even the playoffs. It was in the beginning of the dictatorship, the media who before supported the coup and now was against it, was also against our national team. When the first game of Brazil started, after 3 min of game the media was astonished about the talent of the players. Even in the moment we suffered the most, football would be a reason to be proud of our nation. Regardless of the problems many people may have, to see our national team play the way it did was indeed a great moment.

I've already said that there are different budgets for many areas of interest of the government's care, and if i use your logic than a country should only have the industry sector after every other present issues have been solved, which does not make any sense.

[zukriuchen]

[QUOTE=EpicEcko;44770043]The program itself has a few flaws, as every other social program have, its just that here they tend to create a smoke where there is no fire. These flaws are specific situations, as i said 40 million people got helped by the program, and the few that had problems with it or took advantages from it are the ones we see in the newspaper.[/quote]
and are you not worried that 40 million people HAD to be helped by the program?
[quote]I dont know if you have watched the 1970 World Cup, where Brazil won not only the cup but also all the games, even the playoffs. It was in the beginning of the dictatorship, the media who before supported the coup and now was against it, was also against our national team. When the first game of Brazil started, after 3 min of game the media was astonished about the talent of the players. Even in the moment we suffered the most, football would be a reason to be proud of our nation. Regardless of the problems many people may have, to see our national team play the way it did was indeed a great moment.[/quote]
a great moment that didn't solve shit
[quote]I've already said that there are different budgets for many areas of interest of the government's care, and if i use your logic than a country should only have the industry sector after every other present issues have been solved, which does not make any sense.[/QUOTE]
where did i say that? i'm saying that the budget should be BIGGER for the areas that need a bigger budget, not non-existent for the areas that don't

[Wizards Court]

[QUOTE=jp_rsardeto;44769888]This is one of the most hilarious posts I have ever seem.

[B]The program to give poor people money is debatable, to begin with. It doesn't really work. Some people get "parked" at their conditions because of this program and some even want to have more children and get stucked on poverty just to receive this kind of benefit.[/B][/QUOTE]

its actually working, slowly, but it is, its kinda sad how so many people(even well educated) don't seem to be aware that it is working, its pretty much keynesian economics at work, folks complain about how our government never tries to do anything long term, but when it finally does, its hated in every way. :suicide: , if anything, the true issue with bolsa familia, is that it doesn't go far enough.

and no, it doesn't encourage "laziness", how can someone can be lazy with mere R$32-306 reais($14-137 dollars) per month? the number of people who actually do shit like that, is faaaaaaar less than most think, even the united nations world bank praised the plan.

[url]http://www.revistaforum.com.br/blog/2013/08/desigualdade-de-renda-caiu-em-80-dos-municipios-na-ultima-decada/[/url]

[url]http://www.revistaforum.com.br/blog/2013/05/169-milhao-de-familias-abrem-mao-do-bolsa-familia/[/url]

[url]http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:21447054~pagePK:64257043~piPK:437376~theSitePK:4607,00.html[/url]

here are the actual values for those who are interested, and at its highest possible, its less than half our minimum wage(which is already a joke btw).

also this is for the whole family, not per individual(lol).

[url]http://www.mds.gov.br/falemds/perguntas-frequentes/bolsa-familia/beneficios/beneficiario/beneficio-valor[/url]

for families with income up to R$70,00($31.54) they'll get somewhere between R$70,00 to R$ 306,00($31.54 to $137.87) depending on the number of children(5 and above get the max)

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lBMhmVx.png[/IMG]

for families with income ranging between R$70,00 and R$140,00($31.54-$63.08) they'll get somewhere between R$32,00 to R$ 236,00($14.42 to $106.33) depending on the number of children(5 and above get the max as well, also if the family has no children at this range, they get nothing).

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/JjdLwQd.png[/IMG]

[EpicEcko]

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44770106]and are you not worried that 40 million people HAD to be helped by the program?

a great moment that didn't solve shit

where did i say that? i'm saying that the budget should be BIGGER for the areas that need a bigger budget, not non-existent for the areas that don't[/QUOTE]

I dont know if you have any notions of what is 40 million people leaving the extreme poverty forever. Before the program almost one quarter of the population lived in poverty, maybe you shouldnt let a few isolated events make the whole governments role sound like a waste of time.

I referred to this:
[QUOTE]it's still money that could be spent on better things[/QUOTE]

There are many areas which still need care and have the federal government's investments, but the local management of it sometimes tend to aggravate it. Again, let's not generalize.

[editline]10th May 2014[/editline]

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44770160]its actually working, slowly, but it is, its kinda sad how so many people(even well educated) don't seem to be aware that it is working, its pretty much keynesian economics at work, folks complain about our government never tries to do anything long term, but when it finally does, its hated in every way. :suicide: , if anything, the true issue with bolsa familia, is that it doesn't go far enough.

and no, it doesn't encourage "laziness", how can someone can be lazy with mere R$32-306 reais($14-137 dollars) per month? the number of people who actually do shit like that, is faaaaaaar less than most think, even the united nations world bank praised the plan.

[url]http://www.revistaforum.com.br/blog/2013/08/desigualdade-de-renda-caiu-em-80-dos-municipios-na-ultima-decada/[/url]

[url]http://www.revistaforum.com.br/blog/2013/05/169-milhao-de-familias-abrem-mao-do-bolsa-familia/[/url]

[url]http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:21447054~pagePK:64257043~piPK:437376~theSitePK:4607,00.html[/url]

here are the actual values for those who are interested, and at its highest possible, its less than half our minimum wage(which is already a joke btw).

also this is for the whole family, not per individual(lol).

[url]http://www.mds.gov.br/falemds/perguntas-frequentes/bolsa-familia/beneficios/beneficiario/beneficio-valor[/url]

for families with income up to R$70,00($31.54) they'll get somewhere between R$70,00 to R$ 306,00($31.54 to $137.87) depending on the number of children(5 and above get the max)

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lBMhmVx.png[/IMG]

for families with income ranging between R$70,00 and R$140,00($31.54-$63.08) they'll get somewhere between R$32,00 to R$ 236,00($14.42 to $106.33) depending on the number of children(5 and above get the max as well, also if the family has no children at this range, they get nothing).

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/JjdLwQd.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

The social problems that we have need to be interpreted in a more complex point of view, as we are( i dont like this term, but it's the most used one ) a underdeveloped country with a exponencial population. Most of the people make their point of view based solely on the media, instead of researching actual data.

[godfatherk]

There's this movie from 1950 called Los Olvidados. It sums up pretty well the sittuation in latin america, as crime is concerned.