Bernie Sanders: ‘This is not the time for a protest vote’ - Polidicks

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51062439]Poor Bernie, a sane man with fucking insane supporters trying to explain to them why you can't just rabidly oppose the establishment like a teenager throwing a tantrum.[/QUOTE] This just in: if you refuse to vote for the person who stole a nomination from your candidate of choice, you're insane. Just suck it up, Americans!

[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51062836]He's right. Our #1 priority right now is stopping Trump. Should we be successful and Hillary makes it in, we can turn our attention to her. Bernie already mobilized so many people and got her to concede so much, that I'm sure we can keep going. Whether or not she'll listen once she's in office is one thing, but we know for a fact that Trump isn't about to listen to anyone besides the voices in his head.[/QUOTE] And Putin. And probably Pence. In fact Pence might be doing most of the work.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;51062833]Wait what? That last line seems to imply you're voting for fucking Trump?[/QUOTE] Nah. I would never vote Trump. Trump is so fucking bad if we had literally any other candidate this wouldn't be a close race. After the conventions it looked like it wasn't going to be a close race, but Clinton keeps fucking up by herself seemingly for no reason.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51062847]Nah. I would never vote Trump. Trump is so fucking bad if we had literally any other candidate this wouldn't be a close race. After the conventions it looked like it wasn't going to be a close race, but Clinton keeps fucking up by herself seemingly for no reason.[/QUOTE] Which is why it's so goddamned frustrating that Democrats didn't run Sanders. Looking back I feel like I should have done more personally than just voted. It seemed like none of the left-leaning people I know even knew who Sanders was.

[QUOTE=srobins;51062842]This just in: if you refuse to vote for the person who stole a nomination from your candidate of choice, you're insane. Just suck it up, Americans![/QUOTE] Hillary stole the nomination from Bernie, yet Hillary received 16.9 million votes compared to Bernie's 13.2 million votes? l m a o

[QUOTE=sb27;51062859]Hillary stole the nomination from Bernie, yet Hillary received 16.9 million votes compared to Bernie's 13.2 million votes? l m a o[/QUOTE] fuck facts, people's minds are already made up this is the year where the entire human race is bent over and fucked in the ass raw by "feels before reals"

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51062855]Which is why it's so goddamned frustrating that Democrats didn't run Sanders. Looking back I feel like I should have done more personally than just voted. It seemed like none of the left-leaning people I know even knew who Sanders was.[/QUOTE] I probably should have done more too. The local Bernie campaign staff set up a phone bank on the same floor same building as our NMRs at my university. I brought coffee and snacks a couple times, but was way too swamped with work to want to do much else.

[QUOTE=Megadave;51062747]Sorry Bernie, but I will not vote for your abuser.[/QUOTE] this mindset makes no fucking sense.

[QUOTE=srobins;51062842]This just in: if you refuse to vote for the person who stole a nomination from your candidate of choice, you're insane. Just suck it up, Americans![/QUOTE] not insane just naive of political cause and effect most americans (and beyond) have no idea how to use their democratic power effectively

[QUOTE=sb27;51062859]Hillary stole the nomination from Bernie, yet Hillary received 16.9 million votes compared to Bernie's 13.2 million votes? l m a o[/QUOTE] I'm sure media manipulation and a DNC coordinated smear campaign had nothing to do with it! Haha lol stupid Americans, expecting some semblance of neutrality and fairness in their democratic processes :P

[QUOTE=srobins;51062897]I'm sure media manipulation and a DNC coordinated smear campaign had nothing to do with it! Haha lol stupid Americans, expecting some semblance of neutrality and fairness in their democratic processes :P[/QUOTE] Yeah well whats happened has happened and its p. shitty. None of that really matters anymore though so I fail to see the relevance.

[QUOTE=bitches;51062894]not insane just naive of political cause and effect most americans (and beyond) have no idea how to use their democratic power effectively[/QUOTE] Sure, I don't disagree, I just detest the hostility aimed at people who (naive or not) have enough principal to abstain from voting for someone that unfairly ousted their candidate of choice. I'll probably begrudgingly vote Clinton to avoid a Trump presidency, but demeaning anyone who is opposed to the idea of being coerced into voting for someone they absolutely loathe just because the opposition is even worse doesn't sit well with me. [QUOTE=Kyle902;51062899]Yeah well whats happened has happened and its p. shitty. None of that really matters anymore though so I fail to see the relevance.[/QUOTE] Relevance to what? I'm responding to someone who disagrees and the root of this little sub-topic is whether or not it's understandable to abstain in the election. It's not that confusing.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;51062899]Yeah well whats happened has happened and its p. shitty. None of that really matters anymore though so I fail to see the relevance.[/QUOTE] It does matter though. If the Democrats don't stick to their platform, or Clinton goes off the rails after she gets elected, you better fucking believe people are going to work to seriously fuck up the Democrats come midterms and 2020. Their single "most experienced" candidate can't even fucking handle her own campaign and keeps sabotaging herself. Trump being shit doesn't excuse or preclude the Democrats from being shit also. Americans deserve better than two bottom of the barrel candidates.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51062871]fuck facts, people's minds are already made up this is the year where the entire human race is bent over and fucked in the ass raw by "feels before reals"[/QUOTE] Alternatively it's the year where our democratic process is publicly sodomized and the more apathetic or naive among us lounge about taking potshots at voters who are disenchanted with a political system that is actively working against their best interests and setting them and their belief system up for failure from day one. But no, you're right, let's continue to shit on people who have some remote sense of conviction and take issue with a revolutionary candidate being snubbed by the political establishment in favor of a candidate who more than half the country hates.

america is fucked no matter what given that democrats won't [I]bother[/I] to put a serious voting effort into congressional seats

I'm worried the next election after this will be the same thing. Bat-shit insane radical candidate VS sociopath candidate who can grease palms but is rotten to the core, and then voters will be shamed into voting for the latter because at least they're not batshit insane guy who will ruin everything. I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories without substantial evidence, but if news leaked that Trump was purposefully throwing the election to get Hillary in I wouldn't be shocked. Not saying there's any evidence of it but if you told me what Trump is like now back when the Apprentice first came out I would think you were pulling my leg. I'm a firm believer in not feeding the dog that just bit your hand, and I'm not going to hand the election to a party whose candidate is not going to follow through on anything substantial. I can't take anything Hilary states her platform will be as truth because she's been caught lying so often before that it's logical she's probably full of shit. It's telling that instead of talking about her platform all she does is blast Trump, which is like pointing out that dog shit smells bad. I don't want to be responsible for Hilary or Trump and since the game was rigged I think I should have a third option, and if it's a protest/third party vote then so be it.

[QUOTE=srobins;51062897]I'm sure media manipulation and a DNC coordinated smear campaign had nothing to do with it! Haha lol stupid Americans, expecting some semblance of neutrality and fairness in their democratic processes :P[/QUOTE] No. Bernie lost fair and square. You can't say that Hillary 'stole' the nomination from Bernie because of media manipulation, because you don't know who would have won if the media was as impartial as possible. Hillary probably would have won anyways due to a) greater recognition, b) more support from women and minorities and c) policies closer to the political-centre. Part of being an adult is accepting that things don't always go as well as you want them to. That's why I'm concerned for democracy, because there are so many 'adults' out there who become the sorest of losers when their preferred candidate doesn't win.

[QUOTE=srobins;51062897]I'm sure media manipulation and a DNC coordinated smear campaign had nothing to do with it! Haha lol stupid Americans, expecting some semblance of neutrality and fairness in their democratic processes :P[/QUOTE] Regarding media manipulation and a coordinated smear campaign, I don't think a couple emails from staffers trying to get Clinton better coverage and talking about Bernie's ancestry (the latter of which seemingly never saw the light of day anyway) could really turn 4 million votes over to Bernie's side. You have a problem with just taking things that people might generally agree with (The DNC wasn't being fair during the primaries, Assange is in a rough position) and exaggerating them to the nth degree (The DNC literally rigged the election and ran a smear campaign against Sanders/Assange is mentally and physically tortured in solitary confinement under the brutal tyranny of London metro police). I think the DNC should have been absolutely fair and transparent and neutral, and I don't think categorizing #bernieorbust folks as insane is necessarily fair but it's hard to come up with a nicer word to describe people who would be upset upon their first choice, Sanders, losing the nomination and going with Trump. A third party pick is more understandable but you have to keep in mind the spoiler effect as well.

[QUOTE=srobins;51062924]Alternatively it's the year where our democratic process is publicly sodomized and the more apathetic or naive among us lounge about taking potshots at voters who are disenchanted with a political system that is actively working against their best interests and setting them and their belief system up for failure from day one. But no, you're right, let's continue to shit on people who have some remote sense of conviction and take issue with a revolutionary candidate being snubbed by the political establishment in favor of a candidate who more than half the country hates.[/QUOTE] If your "conviction" leads you to make choices that actively fuck you and all the people you know and love, yes, you are a fucking moron. And I will continue to shit on you until I spit out my last gasping breath on this god forsaken rock, because you deserve to know how fucking retarded you are.

[QUOTE=sb27;51062935]No. Bernie lost fair and square. You can't say that Hillary 'stole' the nomination from Bernie because of media manipulation, because you don't know who would have won if the media was as impartial as possible. Hillary probably would have won anyways due to a) greater recognition, b) more support from women and minorities and c) policies closer to the political-centre. Part of being an adult is accepting that things don't always go as well as you want them to. That's why I'm concerned for democracy, because there are so many 'adults' out there who become the sorest of losers when their preferred candidate doesn't win.[/QUOTE] Save me the lecture about adulthood, I don't need somebody inept enough to think media manipulation and a coordinated effort among a primary political party against one of their own candidates doesn't have an effect on votes. Amazing that you would actually decry the idea of Sanders supporters being "sore losers" after it having been revealed that the result of the DNC nomination process was essentially decided in advance and party resources were mobilized specifically to put him out of the race and give Clinton the advantage. As far as I'm aware, that's not "losing fair and square". It's like saying that even if FIFA was helping one team gain a competitive advantage on another, the fans of the losing team should just suck it up because in the end the other team still had more points at the end. In case you weren't already aware, voters are heavily influenced by the media, by polling and perceptions of who will or will not win (or who "has a chance" to win) and a variety of other factors. It's insulting to claim that you can't call foul play on the nomination process just because we have no way of looking into an alternative universe where the nomination process [I]wasn't[/I] rigged in Clinton's favor to confirm whether or not Sanders would have won. Of course nobody knows, that's the entire issue. Sanders and his supporters were never given a fair shot at earning the nomination, so whether you want to call it theft, sabotage, preferential treatment or a joke doesn't really matter. What matters is that it wasn't [I]fair[/I], and it's pathetic to sit and insult people who were passionate about a candidate and are disappointed that they were denied a fair chance at victory by the establishment. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51062946]If your "conviction" leads you to make choices that actively fuck you and all the people you know and love, yes, you are a fucking moron. And I will continue to shit on you until I spit out my last gasping breath on this god forsaken rock, because you deserve to know how fucking retarded you are.[/QUOTE] Thanks for your worthless opinion, stranger on the internet! You've clearly missed some details in my posting history, like my stating something like 2 posts above that I'll be voting Clinton, but go ahead and continue flaming everyone that doesn't immediately cowtow to political coercion.

[QUOTE=srobins;51062842]This just in: if you refuse to vote for the person who stole a nomination from your candidate of choice, you're insane. Just suck it up, Americans![/QUOTE] So what, Bernie doesn't get nominated and then it's just "Okay well I guess his cause is dead nevermind nothing we can do anymore folks let's give up" If you actually [I]cared[/I] about what Bernie was fighting for, you'd understand that Trump winning the presidency would completely undo any of the progress he and his supporters fought so hard for. He was able to force Clinton to lean further left than when she started, and if the people push hard enough, they may be able to lean her even more left as president. But to just throw that all away because "She cheated!" is frankly childish. You need to disconnect yourself emotionally and consider the facts of the matter: it's either going to be Clinton or Trump, and unless the hand of God reaches down from the sky and presents new candidates, that's what you've got to chose from. Consider what a presidency under each of them would look like, and how those presidencies would relate to your personal values, because I [I]guarantee[/I] that one of them aligns more with your views than the other, even if it's just by a margin. Why do you think Bernie's advocating for Hillary anyway? He's managed to move past having the nomination "stolen" from him. Do you think what he was fighting for matters more to you than it does to him? But he understands that nothing else matters right now other than the current choice we face, and emotions have no place in the discussion.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51062918]Americans deserve better than two bottom of the barrel candidates.[/QUOTE] But do we? Trump and Clinton are candidates because both parties deteriorated, people are easily swayed, and the political game is still a thing.

[QUOTE=SleepyAl;51062934]I'm worried the next election after this will be the same thing. Bat-shit insane radical candidate VS sociopath candidate who can grease palms but is rotten to the core, and then voters will be shamed into voting for the latter because at least they're not batshit insane guy who will ruin everything. [/QUOTE] People have expressed this thought before in defending their stance of not voting for Clinton but I don't buy it personally. Historical elections aren't on a continuum where they just steadily get worse. McCain and Obama were both better candidates than Bush and Kerry were, so I'm optimistic that the next election (2024, maybe not so much 2020) we won't have two candidates that break disapproval records. [editline]16th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wauterboi;51062964]But do we? Trump and Clinton are candidates because both parties deteriorated, people are easily swayed, and the political game is still a thing.[/QUOTE] This is a fair enough point. The idea that Americans deserve better is squelched as soon as you realize that both Clinton and Trump won their primaries. Trump won by much larger margins than Clinton at that. Seems to me that America is getting exactly what it asked for in this election.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51062946]If your "conviction" leads you to make choices that actively fuck you and all the people you know and love, yes, you are a fucking moron. And I will continue to shit on you until I spit out my last gasping breath on this god forsaken rock, because you deserve to know how fucking retarded you are.[/QUOTE] talking like that will only entrench others into their ways it wins you no friends and works [I]against[/I] your goals [QUOTE=The Vman;51062958]So what, Bernie doesn't get nominated and then it's just "Okay well I guess his cause is dead nevermind nothing we can do anymore folks let's give up" If you actually [I]cared[/I] about what Bernie was fighting for, you'd understand that Trump winning the presidency would completely undo any of the progress he and his supporters fought so hard for. He was able to force Clinton to lean further left than when she started, and if the people push hard enough, they may be able to lean her even more left as president. But to just throw that all away because "She cheated!" is frankly childish. You need to disconnect yourself emotionally and consider the facts of the matter: it's either going to be Clinton or Trump, and unless the hand of God reaches down from the sky and presents new candidates, that's what you've got to chose from. Consider what a presidency under each of them would look like, and how those presidencies would relate to your personal values, because I [I]guarantee[/I] that one of them aligns more with your views than the other, even if it's just by a margin. Why do you think Bernie's advocating for Hillary anyway? He's managed to move past having the nomination "stolen" from him. Do you think what he was fighting for matters more to you than it does to him? But he understands that nothing else matters right now other than the current choice we face, and emotions have no place in the discussion.[/QUOTE] be more like this guy

[QUOTE=srobins;51062957]Save me the lecture about adulthood, I don't need somebody inept enough to think media manipulation and a coordinated effort among a primary political party against one of their own candidates doesn't have an effect on votes. Amazing that you would actually decry the idea of Sanders supporters being "sore losers" after it having been revealed that the result of the DNC nomination process was essentially decided in advance and party resources were mobilized specifically to put him out of the race and give Clinton the advantage. As far as I'm aware, that's not "losing fair and square". It's like saying that even if FIFA was helping one team gain a competitive advantage on another, the fans of the losing team should just suck it up because in the end the other team still had more points at the end. In case you weren't already aware, voters are heavily influenced by the media, by polling and perceptions of who will or will not win (or who "has a chance" to win) and a variety of other factors. It's insulting to claim that you can't call foul play on the nomination process just because we have no way of looking into an alternative universe where the nomination process [I]wasn't[/I] rigged in Clinton's favor to confirm whether or not Sanders would have won. Of course nobody knows, that's the entire issue. Sanders and his supporters were never given a fair shot at earning the nomination, so whether you want to call it theft, sabotage, preferential treatment or a joke doesn't really matter. What matters is that it wasn't [I]fair[/I], and it's pathetic to sit and insult people who were passionate about a candidate and are disappointed that they were denied a fair chance at victory by the establishment. Thanks for your worthless opinion, stranger on the internet! You've clearly missed some details in my posting history, like my stating something like 2 posts above that I'll be voting Clinton, but go ahead and continue flaming everyone that doesn't immediately cowtow to political coercion.[/QUOTE] The only reason "media manipulation" works in the first place is because people are literal fucking sheep who will believe absolutely anything they're told as long as they hear it said enough times. I have absolutely no sympathy for people if a couple of moderators being biased or a couple of news stories was enough to get them to vote against their own interests. If that's how fucking gullible people are, then maybe they deserve a snake like clinton. It isn't coercion. You aren't being coerced. No one is in a position to force you or anyone else to do anything. You have two vats on either side of you. One is full of feces, the other is hydrochloric acid. And based on a democratic vote, everyone has to jump into one of them. No one can force you to vote either way, it's just that if you have any fucking sense of self preservation or empathy for your fellow man, there's only one option. And if someone says "I vote we jump in the acid because personally I think human feces is only here because it cheated", then that person is a fucking moron.

[QUOTE=The Vman;51062958]So what, Bernie doesn't get nominated and then it's just "Okay well I guess his cause is dead nevermind nothing we can do anymore folks let's give up" If you actually [I]cared[/I] about what Bernie was fighting for, you'd understand that Trump winning the presidency would completely undo any of the progress he and his supporters fought so hard for. He was able to force Clinton to lean further left than when she started, and if the people push hard enough, they may be able to lean her even more left as president. But to just throw that all away because "She cheated!" is frankly childish. You need to disconnect yourself emotionally and consider the facts of the matter: it's either going to be Clinton or Trump, and unless the hand of God reaches down from the sky and presents new candidates, that's what you've got to chose from. Consider what a presidency under each of them would look like, and how those presidencies would relate to your personal values, because I [I]guarantee[/I] that one of them aligns more with your views than the other, even if it's just by a margin. Why do you think Bernie's advocating for Hillary anyway? He's managed to move past having the nomination "stolen" from him. Do you think what he was fighting for matters more to you than it does to him? But he understands that nothing else matters right now other than the current choice we face, and emotions have no place in the discussion.[/QUOTE] Like I said above, I don't disagree. I only take issue with the hostility directed at people who choose to abstain from voting. Anyone who actually switches from Sanders to Trump is insane, yes, but I think refusal to vote for Clinton is questionable but not worthy of so much condemnation and derision. The concept of having some civic duty to vote for someone you are fundamentally opposed to isn't agreeable to me and I'm only advocating for people to not be such pretentious dickheads when somebody refuses to accept the rough fucking the DNC is doling out to Sanders supporters.

[QUOTE=srobins;51062957]Save me the lecture about adulthood, I don't need somebody inept enough to think media manipulation and a coordinated effort among a primary political party against one of their own candidates doesn't have an effect on votes.[/QUOTE] Putting aside, again, the fact that the "media manipulation" consisted of shooting a few emails to a network, do you really think that manipulation could account for the 4 million votes that Sanders lost by? Bear in mind that was roughly a quarter of Clinton's overall support. Do you really think 25% of Democratic voters went with Clinton because of the media or because she raised a shitload more money and had a better ground game? [QUOTE=srobins;51062957]It's like saying that even if FIFA was helping one team gain a competitive advantage on another, the fans of the losing team should just suck it up because in the end the other team still had more points at the end.[/QUOTE] You can't really compare what is essentially a popularity contest to one of performance because nothing the DNC amounted to giving Clinton a physical advantage. How do you quantify a competitive advantage in a sport with media face time? [editline]16th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=srobins;51062995]the rough fucking the DNC is doling out to Sanders supporters.[/QUOTE] I think the fundamental difference of perspective between you and the people replying to you is that they blame democratic voters for Clinton winning a whole hell of a lot more than the DNC because ultimately nothing stopped them from going to the polls and pressing Sanders.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51062993]The only reason "media manipulation" works in the first place is because people are literal fucking sheep who will believe absolutely anything they're told as long as they hear it said enough times. I have absolutely no sympathy for people if a couple of moderators being biased or a couple of news stories was enough to get them to vote against their own interests. If that's how fucking gullible people are, then maybe they deserve a snake like clinton. It isn't coercion. You aren't being coerced. No one is in a position to force you or anyone else to do anything. You have two vats on either side of you. One is full of feces, the other is hydrochloric acid. And based on a democratic vote, everyone has to jump into one of them. No one can force you to vote either way, it's just that if you have any fucking sense of self preservation or empathy for your fellow man, there's only one option. And if someone says "I vote we jump in the acid because personally I think human feces is only here because it cheated", then that person is a fucking moron.[/QUOTE] I can't be bothered to try responding to someone so enraged by the concept of somebody abstaining from voting for someone they detest. Why don't you take a breather and wipe the hot fog off your glasses and try talking like a big boy if you want to convince somebody of something.

[QUOTE=srobins;51062995]Like I said above, I don't disagree. I only take issue with the hostility directed at people who choose to abstain from voting. Anyone who actually switches from Sanders to Trump is insane, yes, but I think refusal to vote for Clinton is questionable but not worthy of so much condemnation and derision. The concept of having some civic duty to vote for someone you are fundamentally opposed to isn't agreeable to me and I'm only advocating for people to not be such pretentious dickheads when somebody refuses to accept the rough fucking the DNC is doling out to Sanders supporters.[/QUOTE] People get hostile is because your decision has the potential to affect them as well. Your vote helps decide who is going to be one of, if not [I]THE[/I] most powerful person in the world. And when the choice is as divided and as high-stakes as this one, people will be highly incredulous to someone who claims to not have an opinion in the matter. People are mad because they feel like you're [I]refusing[/I] to look at the situation from a cold, logical standpoint. That you're so entrenched in your emotional reaction that you (or more appropriately, the Bernie or Bust camp) run the risk of jeopardizing the future of the country.

[QUOTE=srobins;51063011]I can't be bothered to try responding to someone so enraged by the concept of somebody abstaining from voting for someone they detest. Why don't you take a breather and wipe the hot fog off your glasses and try talking like a big boy if you want to convince somebody of something.[/QUOTE] You can't logic someone out of a belief they didn't logic themselves into to begin with. I would be an idiot to try. Many people more intelligent and more eloquent than me have explained why a Trump presidency would be terrifyingly dangerous. People from all sides of the political spectrum, people from all walks of life. If none of them could convince people that they're wrong, then there's certainly nothing I can do. So rather than waste my time trying to be diplomatic, why shouldn't I just say what I think? People are morons. People are stupid, ignorant, arrogant, selfish, and easily manipulated. History has shown it time and time again, and it doesn't look like things will be changing any time soon.