US Surgeon General- Teens Vaping is a Public Health Crisis - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Dr.C;51498370]If there's no nicotine in it, then what the hell is the problem? Isn't it just harmless vapor at that point or is there some other harmful chemical in it or is breathing in so much vapor a hazard in itself?[/QUOTE] Well the base liquids are usually vegetable glycerin and/or propylene glycol. Surely not healthy but there's not much research on long term effects yet

[QUOTE=Dr.C;51498370]If there's no nicotine in it, then what the hell is the problem? Isn't it just harmless vapor at that point or is there some other harmful chemical in it or is breathing in so much vapor a hazard in itself?[/QUOTE] You really don't want to intentionally put unnecessary things into your lungs. Anything that isn't normally a gas at room temperature is probably a bad idea. It has to get out of your lungs somehow.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51498423]You really don't want to intentionally put unnecessary things into your lungs. Anything that isn't normally a gas at room temperature is probably a bad idea. It has to get out of your lungs somehow.[/QUOTE] What about inhalers or steam? Lungs are literally made to absorb stuff into the bloodstream, and vaping isn't the first non-room temperature gas that people have tried to inhale. I'm not saying that your lungs can handle everything out there but I wouldn't just rule out something on principle, especially when the substance is something the human body has been able to metabolize for a long time.

On the plus side, the prevalence of Vaping has made 18650 LiPos piss cheap.

[QUOTE=amos106;51498541]What about inhalers or steam? Lungs are literally made to absorb stuff into the bloodstream, and vaping isn't the first non-room temperature gas that people have tried to inhale. I'm not saying that your lungs can handle everything out there but I wouldn't just rule out something on principle, especially when the substance is something the human body has been able to metabolize for a long time.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between putting foreign substances in your lungs for a specific medical purpose, and putting unknown, unregulated substances in your lungs for recreation. Our bodies are pretty good at repairing themselves in many ways, but it's still unwise to do things that can cause damage just for the hell of it. I smoke pipe tobacco and cigars on occasion. It's a fucking dumb thing to do, but sometimes when you're drinking or carving it just feels really right in the moment. There's no sense in pretending these things are harmless.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51498602]There's a difference between putting foreign substances in your lungs for a specific medical purpose, and putting unknown, unregulated substances in your lungs for recreation. Our bodies are pretty good at repairing themselves in many ways, but it's still unwise to do things that can cause damage just for the hell of it. I smoke pipe tobacco and cigars on occasion. It's a fucking dumb thing to do, but sometimes when you're drinking or carving it just feels really right in the moment. There's no sense in pretending these things are harmless.[/QUOTE] Unregulated vapes and juice definitely add a risk factor, but that doesn't mean vaping is inherently dangerous to the lungs. As gukki said they're may be long term effects and that requires research, but until that research returns its findings you can't just summarily condemn them.

[QUOTE=amos106;51498974]Unregulated vapes and juice definitely add a risk factor, but that doesn't mean vaping is inherently dangerous to the lungs. As gukki said they're may be long term effects and that requires research, but until that research returns its findings you can't just summarily condemn them.[/QUOTE] We have data on short-term effects already though. If you look at the [URL="http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927239"]SDS[/URL] for glycol you're going to find that it's a lung irritant. It's not really a question of whether it's bad for you. It's really more of a question of whether it's better than smoking (which I think it is), and whether it's any more dangerous than things we do on a daily basis. I don't think it should be banned, but I do think people should have a right to know what they're putting in themselves, and that they should know the risks before doing so.

Who the fuck STARTS at vaping and THEN moves onto cigs? If you're dumb enough for that you probably deserve to be addicted to nicotine [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] To me that's like becoming a smoker by first trying a nicotine patch like why would you even [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=amos106;51498541]What about inhalers or steam? Lungs are literally made to absorb stuff into the bloodstream, and vaping isn't the first non-room temperature gas that people have tried to inhale. I'm not saying that your lungs can handle everything out there but I wouldn't just rule out something on principle, especially when the substance is something the human body has been able to metabolize for a long time.[/QUOTE] I'm assuming the substance you're referring to is nicotine and not glycerin because I'm pretty sure inhaling vaporized glycerin isn't good regardless [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] What I don't get is how the stuff doesn't condense and leave aspiration in your lungs considering if I vape in my car the Windows fog up with a film

[QUOTE=Kylel999;51499096] What I don't get is how the stuff doesn't condense and leave aspiration in your lungs considering if I vape in my car the Windows fog up with a film[/QUOTE] Mucous is pretty amazing stuff for one, and also glycol is small enough that it can permeate cell membranes and diffuse into other tissues. It probably is leaving some residue in your lungs if you vape often enough though.

We need to at least ban these things in enclosed motor vehicles. It's a goddamn safety hazard! Why you would willingly inhale anything that isn't oxygen is beyond me. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] As others have mentioned, the biggest problem with vape is that anybody and their dog can get in on it with little to no oversight. You need a license to sell any other form of nicotine, why are e-cigs not treated the same way?

[QUOTE=Chonch;51500113]We need to at least ban these things in enclosed motor vehicles. It's a goddamn safety hazard! Why you would willingly inhale anything that isn't oxygen is beyond me. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] As others have mentioned, the biggest problem with vape is that anybody and their dog can get in on it with little to no oversight. You need a license to sell any other form of nicotine, why are e-cigs not treated the same way?[/QUOTE] You want to outlaw what someone can do in a car? Specifically vaping? Why the fuck... You know you can get juice where the vapor is invisible right? Even so, visible vapor is your reasoning here or what? [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chonch;51500113]We need to at least ban these things in enclosed motor vehicles. It's a goddamn safety hazard! Why you would willingly inhale anything that isn't oxygen is beyond me. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] As others have mentioned, the biggest problem with vape is that anybody and their dog can get in on it with little to no oversight. You need a license to sell any other form of nicotine, why are e-cigs not treated the same way?[/QUOTE] Most E-Cigs aren't sold with nicotine? They are just a battery and heating element.

God, yes. Please keep teens from vaping. I swear, if one more underaged fuckwad decides it's okay to blow that shit into my face, I will crush their shitty toy underfoot. "bh-but bruh it's not smoke lol chill the fuck out man"

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51497760]If theres no nicotene, what do you get out of vaping?[/QUOTE] Well you could vape to get high, for example

[QUOTE=Monkah;51500154]God, yes. Please keep teens from vaping. I swear, if one more underaged fuckwad decides it's okay to blow that shit into my face, I will crush their shitty toy underfoot. "bh-but bruh it's not smoke lol chill the fuck out man"[/QUOTE] you're not gonna get cancer from secondhand vape. all it's gonna do is smell lol. still a dick move, but no more than people doing other shit.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;51497758]Are we seriously brushing off criticism of e-Cigs as some sort of conspiracy by big tobacco? As in, a doctor that was literally nominated by POTUS and confirmed by the senate is somehow influenced by tobacco companies despite quoted saying that "e-cigs might revert us back to cigarette dependency", i.e clearly insinuating that tobacco addiction is bad, and that any step towards it is harmful and that we should consider the legitimacy and the rising widespread use of e-cigarettes as a potentially harmful precedent that could very well set us back in time.[/QUOTE] Big Tobacco is going after vaping in different ways, but that's outside of the scope of this talk. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chonch;51500113]We need to at least ban these things in enclosed motor vehicles. It's a goddamn safety hazard! Why you would willingly inhale anything that isn't oxygen is beyond me. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] As others have mentioned, the biggest problem with vape is that anybody and their dog can get in on it with little to no oversight. You need a license to sell any other form of nicotine, why are e-cigs not treated the same way?[/QUOTE] At least here it's only sold in tobacco or cigarette shops and you need ID to prove you can legally buy tobacco products. Every Vape website also has an age gate. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr.C;51498370]If there's no nicotine in it, then what the hell is the problem? Isn't it just harmless vapor at that point or is there some other harmful chemical in it or is breathing in so much vapor a hazard in itself?[/QUOTE] The truthful answer is that we don't know. For example, there's a bit of a scare surrounding the chemical diacetyl though these scares are [url=http://www.snopes.com/vaping-causes-popcorn-lung/]mostly overblown[/url], but it shows that it has the potential to not be 100% safe. There's been no long-term research done on it yet but the general consensus is that it's [i]probably[/i] not as unhealthy as cigarettes are because there's usually no tar or CO2 or other chemicals typically present in cigarettes being inhaled. The claim that vaping is 100% safe, however, hasn't been scientifically proven yet. I should point out that I use a vape in my house because the sensation of the cloud simply feels nice. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Monkah;51500154]God, yes. Please keep teens from vaping. I swear, if one more underaged fuckwad decides it's okay to blow that shit into my face, I will crush their shitty toy underfoot. "bh-but bruh it's not smoke lol chill the fuck out man"[/QUOTE] Hope you enjoy catching on fire for crushing that battery with a high energy density.

[quote=]Battery-powered e-cigarettes turn liquid nicotine into an inhalable vapor[/quote] uhhhh thats not how that works

[QUOTE=matt000024;51500242]you're not gonna get cancer from secondhand vape. all it's gonna do is smell lol. still a dick move, but no more than people doing other shit.[/QUOTE]hooray, it doesn't give you cancer. you're still blowing clouds of shit into my face. can you really not go the duration of a goddamn train ride without 'vaping'? christ.

The concern is warranted. Is he promoting a blanket ban? No, he wants discussion and research. We need to allocate funding for prevention campaigns and to have an idea about how the tobacco industry is advertising nicotine products. The effects of nicotine on development are as I understand it are not implied to be great. Addiction is more prevalent in adults who smoked in adolescence iirc

[QUOTE=Chonch;51500113] As others have mentioned, the biggest problem with vape is that anybody and their dog can get in on it with little to no oversight. You need a license to sell any other form of nicotine, why are e-cigs not treated the same way?[/QUOTE] Um.... They are treated like tobacco. Most states before the regulations recently affixed nationally, had prexisting laws which mandated people be of legal smoking age to purchase them and have proper ID. Advertising was banned from being frivolous in many states as well and they had to be sold behind the counter and could only show a picture of the device like cigarette advertising. That was before the regulations and nearly every single state had this in place. But now with regulations the pricing is substantially higher. Additionally any aspect of it is now considered a tobacco product. So lets say you buy cotton thats sold for use as wicks for vaping, at a store its legally considered a tobacco product. Same as the device itself, even if its just a peice of metal, or strands of wire. Any juice you buy is considered and taxed like a tobacco product and is controlled under the same regulations even if the liquid contains no aspect at all of nicotine or anything remotely like tobacco. Additionally shops can not teach users how to use the devices as thats now illegal. These are not childrens toys and pose series risks due to the lipo cell batteries contained. They can be easy to abuse without even knowing about it or used incorrectly very easily posing significant harm of which any half decent shop would teach you. But thats now illegal and they can be reprimanded for even touching your device within their store. This only encourages ingorance and increases danger. I left out a lot in what the regulations did but to be honest, they are now more heavily regulated than cigarettes are. Oh and one more thing. Most nicotine isn't treated the same. Nicotine patches and gum as well as cigars are not considered tobacco products and in most states there isn't a mandated legal age to purchase nicotine devices such as gum and patches and can be bought by children. So you yourself have done very poor research on the topic youre advocating. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=PsiSoldier;51500219]Well you could vape to get high, for example[/QUOTE] entirely different from vaping as its being discussed by the surgeon general. Go ahead and toss in wax thc or oils.....it wont work out well at all. [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Marbalo;51497758]Are we seriously brushing off criticism of e-Cigs as some sort of conspiracy by big tobacco? As in, a doctor that was literally nominated by POTUS and confirmed by the senate is somehow influenced by tobacco companies despite quoted saying that "e-cigs might revert us back to cigarette dependency", i.e clearly insinuating that tobacco addiction is bad, and that any step towards it is harmful and that we should consider the legitimacy and the rising widespread use of e-cigarettes as a potentially harmful precedent that could very well set us back in time.[/QUOTE] Theres actually a lot of proof showing big tobaccos involvement and massive payouts for anti vaping campaigns and involvement in legislation/regulation of the ecig including a mandated grandfather date in 2007. Any device made after 2007 will not be able to be sold without heavy heavy heavy heavy fees manufacturers must pay to have be sold in stores. Now pre 2007, anything can be sold without that fee. Now also pre 2007 the cig market was literally a monopoly controlled by tobacco companies. So through lobbying they allowed that date to pass which conviently excuses them from paying to have their device sold within stores. virutally all the funds that allowed the lobbying to happen and promoted it was sourced from one company, The Altria goup. AKA Phillip Morris Cigarettes. [URL]http://www.altria.com/Pages/default.aspx[/URL]In fact the very bill that was passed and made federal law was written by the Altria group themselves. (also states get a massive amount of money from tobacco companies from a legal deal made in the 90's and many states dont want to see that massive yearly payout disappear you can read about that agreement here [URL]http://publichealthlawcenter.org/topics/tobacco-control/tobacco-control-litigation/master-settlement-agreement[/URL] ) Meanwhile yes this doctor is credible but also admits his worry is in the fear of the usage by those underage, while fully admitting theres very little evidence at all to show vaping is good or bad for you, just his worries is the nicotine and gateway affect. Something that is actually very seldom a realistic idea to have. Many countries do not sell nicotine juices, like australia and you must mix it yourself to have nicotine in it. As well as recent studies have demonstrated that teens smoking tobacco is at a record low and accelerated dramatically within the last two years by about 4x. The rise of vaping has only increased roughly double but the kids smoking tobacco has decreased by double the amount of the rise of teens using vaporizers.

As it should be. Vaping is more annoying than actual smoking because they think they're entitled

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51497760]If theres no nicotene, what do you get out of vaping?[/QUOTE] Depends on what juice you use. Personally, I want one with a juice that my cousin had that effectively chills your mouth and opens you sinuses in the same way that really strong mint does. [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Code3Response;51502064]As it should be. Vaping is more annoying than actual smoking because they think they're entitled[/QUOTE] That's a personality and stereotype problem, nothing to do with vapes. I'd say cigarette smokers are far worse if for no reason other than cigarette smoke slowly killing me and making me want to cough every time I smell it. I'd so much rather smell strawberries or some shit.

He's not wrong. I started using nicotine with a vape - before then it was like 2 cigarettes ever. Since then, after my vape broke before college, I've switched pretty much entirely to cigarettes. For two years running now. It's very unlikely I'd smoke cigarettes at all if I had never bought a vape. Nicotine is nice, and I wouldn't have made it a semi-habitual thing if I hadn't fucked around with it in the first place.

My problem with vaping is that it deludes people into thinking it's ok to vape inside cause "lol no second hand" We had an asshole vaping inside our office's waiting room. A [I]doctor's[/I] office.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51497760]If theres no nicotene, what do you get out of vaping?[/QUOTE] Why are teenagers vaping? Vaping is meant to help ween you off cigs.

what's up with the hate on ecigs? sure, some people can be annoying with it but it seems like people dislike vaping in itself just because of the users. the stigma alone made me choose smoking over vaping since I didn't want to be seen as a tool. got one in the end anyway and it has helped me quit smoking 100%. hate on the annoying user, not the ecigs

[QUOTE=kaze4159;51497694]So basically they're just assuming all e-cigs contain nicotine so anything related to them should be regulated Call me paranoid but this seems like something the tobacco companies would push for[/QUOTE] tldr, big tobacco basically made vapes illegal here under the guise of tobacco control act which convieniantly only regulates new tobacco not old products like say... every single tobacco product

[QUOTE=Monkah;51500154]God, yes. Please keep teens from vaping. I swear, if one more underaged fuckwad decides it's okay to blow that shit into my face, I will crush their shitty toy underfoot. "bh-but bruh it's not smoke lol chill the fuck out man"[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=matt000024;51500242]you're not gonna get cancer from secondhand vape. all it's gonna do is smell lol. still a dick move, but no more than people doing other shit.[/QUOTE] I have chronic asthma, and I can safely say that anyone who blows their vape smoke carelessly because "it's not smoke" can go fuck themselves. To someone with lung issues, that shit is literally worse than tobacco smoke because it's synthetic. At my previous job, someone blew his vape right over my head and I instantly started having an asthma attack-- to the point where I had to huff my inhaler like ten times and ended up throwing up in the parking lot. I got so much shit there for throwing out vapers who vaped in the aisles, but fuck that. You vape indoors in a public place, and you're a huge asshole.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51497760]If theres no nicotene, what do you get out of vaping?[/QUOTE] i used to smoke if i drink i usually want a cigarette, in that situation even a really low nic content like 0.3mg is good enough [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=waylander;51504199]i used to smoke if i drink i usually want a cigarette, in that situation even a really low nic content like 0.3mg is good enough[/QUOTE] things like the tpd in europe are a joke, almost all the smokers i know now vape even people who smoked for 20+ years but they brought in a bunch of bullshit regulations to make it harder for people