U.S. Willing to Hold Talks With Snowden in Exchange For Him Returning and Pleading Guilty First - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43668793]Not sure about now but last time I checked most Americans were against Snowden and Manning as whistleblowers.[/QUOTE] You checked wrong, man.

The US Government is so dumb its hysterical. "ed pls come home, we miss you."

What i can't understand ( well i can because it's America ) is it's not the public that's out for his head, the public actually respects and acknowledges as some actual unsung hero, it's simply the corrupt members of the government who don't like they're dirty little secrets getting out that's after him, so if in theory the government is meant to be run for the people and by the people, there should be no case against him.

[QUOTE=Source;43670643]What i can't understand ( well i can because it's America ) is it's not the public that's out for his head, the public actually respects and acknowledges as some actual unsung hero, it's simply the corrupt members of the government who don't like they're dirty little secrets getting out that's after him, so if in theory the government is meant to be run for the people and by the people, there should be no case against him.[/QUOTE] According to [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-most-think-edward-snowden-should-stand-trial-in-us/"]CBS News[/URL], 61 percent of Americans want Edward Snowden to stand trial, while only 23% believe he should be granted amnesty.

If they want to catch Snowden here's what they gotta do: Take some classified information and put it on the ground. Above the classified information, lean one side of a large box on an upright stick so it's wedged there. Tie a string around the stick, lead it around the corner of a building, and have a guy there waiting. When Snowden comes to leak it he'll crawl under the box and the guy can yank the string. Bam, box topples to the ground trapping Snowden.

And as has been mentioned previously, the government has not acted in the best interest of the people, nor represented them for many years now. It does its bare minimum to keep us reasonably complacent and happy while the rest of its time and resources go to ensuring that our richest, wealthiest, and most powerful can have and do whatever they want at the public's expense. This whole debacle has been proof of that, the NSA has been more interested in preserving their power and global surveillance agenda as well as seeking retaliation against someone who blew the whistle on their blatant constitutional violations than they are actually addressing any of the concerns the people rightfully have. The current hearings right now are just an elaborate stage show, we all know nothing will really change and that the surveillance and the NSA will continue to operate under greater secrecy. I do hope Snowden and his friends in the press will continue to put the US in the spotlight, every lie they are caught in and every revelation that they have been stabbing their 'allies' in the back by spying on them is one step closer to excising some of the most cancerous elements of our government.

[QUOTE=Kuro.;43671084]every revelation that they have been stabbing their 'allies' in the back by spying on them is one step closer to excising some of the most cancerous elements of our government.[/QUOTE] That's wonderfully naive. If you want to talk about 'elaborate stage show', start with the mock outrage from the rest of the world over spying that they knew was happening and which they do themselves. One whistleblower rallying up a legion of clueless activists isn't going to change the way governments do business.

Looks like the government is whistle[B]blowing[/B] it on this one.

They're just going to lock him up for life if he comes. Which he won't. He's smart enough to obtain these documents and get them published, he's smart enough to know this wouldn't end well if he took up the offer.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43668602]Because whistleblowing laws don't apply to the trillion government contractors the NSA employs and, until recently, gave sensitive access to. That's why it's illegal. Let's have those arguments, too: - The scope and purpose of whistleblowing protections - Why the NSA has an army of private contractors instead of employees to handle SIGINT matters relating to national security Snowden knew exactly what he was doing, and the only "harm" he's caused the US government is embarrassment and letting them get caught being bad by the rest of the world.[/QUOTE] Whistle Blowers turn over documents exposing violations to oversight boards and committees. They don't take them out of the country and start dumping them on the internet.

[QUOTE=darunner;43673666]Whistle Blowers turn over documents exposing violations to oversight boards and committees. They don't take them out of the country and start dumping them on the internet.[/QUOTE] A valid point. But, excuse me if I'm wrong here, is it correct that there is no real board or committee managing the NSA? The secret courts and the President have been defending the NSA's actions as legal since the story broke. If the people who have power over the NSA are insisting legality even in the face of public opposition, what good would turning the documents over to some committee in secret do?

[QUOTE=darunner;43673666]Whistle Blowers turn over documents exposing violations to oversight boards and committees. They don't take them out of the country and start dumping them on the internet.[/QUOTE] Because this would've ever gotten out if Snowden had followed the chain of command. Have you paid attention to Congress's "oversight" on the NSA's activities even once for the past 12 months?

[QUOTE=Draze;43667895]You mean Chelsea Manning.[/QUOTE] how is this dumb? wasn't the name changed legally or am I misinformed?

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;43673776]But, excuse me if I'm wrong here, is it correct that there is no real board or committee managing the NSA?[/QUOTE] NSA answers to the DNI, Congress, and the President. There are many different agencies that can receive legally-protected whistleblowing and then pass it on to any of those three directly. Read the Whistleblower Protection Act for details. [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43673779]Because this would've ever gotten out if Snowden had followed the chain of command. Have you paid attention to Congress's "oversight" on the NSA's activities even once for the past 12 months?[/QUOTE] You mean the Congressmen that say they weren't aware or kept informed, and were straight-up lied to by Clapper? If you really think all of Congress is in the NSA's pocket, then why would leaking change anything? The point of the WPA is to allow employees to tell Congress when an agency is misbehaving, so that we don't get these situations where an agency is operating without proper oversight. You're in no position to say that following the law couldn't possibly have worked.

[QUOTE=Boaraes;43674396]how is this dumb? wasn't the name changed legally or am I misinformed?[/QUOTE] It wasn't legally afaik but we should respect what she wants to be called.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43670259]Yes they absolutely do. Who told you contractors aren't protected by whistleblowing laws?[/QUOTE] Some idiot, evidently. However, Snowden's not really in [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/23/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-courage-foundation"]a position to want to come back anyway[/URL]. [QUOTE=catbarf;43674408]You mean the Congressmen that say they weren't aware or kept informed, and were straight-up lied to by Clapper? If you really think all of Congress is in the NSA's pocket, then why would leaking change anything? The point of the WPA is to allow employees to tell Congress when an agency is misbehaving, so that we don't get these situations where an agency is operating without proper oversight. You're in no position to say that following the law couldn't possibly have worked.[/QUOTE] If Congress's oversight is essentially crippled by bad information/stonewalling, and you realize that I was taking this into account and not merely assigning the blame to Congress, my statement stands.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43674408]NSA answers to the DNI, Congress, and the President.[/QUOTE] And considering the reactions of these people, I would say going to them would have resulted in nothing happening, except maybe losing your security clearance and/or job. If this was such a big deal, then Congress and the President would have done something about it post leak. Instead, the only thing they did was damage control.

[QUOTE=darunner;43673666]Whistle Blowers turn over documents exposing violations to oversight boards and committees. They don't take them out of the country and start dumping them on the internet.[/QUOTE] Turn over the documents to the government who already knows (and sanctions) what they're doing? lol good luck with that. [QUOTE=catbarf;43674408]You mean the Congressmen that say they weren't aware or kept informed, and were straight-up lied to by Clapper? If you really think all of Congress is in the NSA's pocket, then why would leaking change anything?[/QUOTE] And you believe them? They're just pulling the "dunno lol" card, absolving themselves of all responsibility and then not actually doing a damn thing to fix it. It's a load of shit.

[QUOTE=PolarEventide;43668449]In all fairness, he is guilty of the crimes he's being charged with. The argument is whether or not the good of what he did pardons the crimes he's committed. It's not up for debate, though, whether or not leaking secret government files is illegal or not; it is, plain and simple.[/QUOTE] That can be argued

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;43675370]Turn over the documents to the government who already knows (and sanctions) what they're doing? lol good luck with that. And you believe them? They're just pulling the "dunno lol" card, absolving themselves of all responsibility and then not actually doing a damn thing to fix it. It's a load of shit.[/QUOTE] Going through "Official channels" sounds like a great option for people who like black vans and informative trips, losing their job without ever doing anything wrong, and eventually, if persistent enough, joining the list of people who just go missing to be never found again.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;43675370]And you believe them? They're just pulling the "dunno lol" card, absolving themselves of all responsibility and then not actually doing a damn thing to fix it. It's a load of shit.[/QUOTE] Do you really think that not a [i]single[/i] Congressman would possibly be concerned with the scope of the NSA's activities, as in the Ellsberg case with the Pentagon papers? The government isn't some goddamn hive mind where everyone knows exactly what everyone else is doing. Why do you think Obama signed additional whistleblowing protection into law in 2012? [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;43675959]Going through "Official channels" sounds like a great option for people who like black vans and informative trips, losing their job without ever doing anything wrong, and eventually, if persistent enough, joining the list of people who just go missing to be never found again.[/QUOTE] You guys know that the X-Files is fiction, right? I guess it's really easy to just pretend that all of the government is this shady cult that shoots any of their own people who step out of line but you can readily find examples that show that the idea is bullshit.