Faith Healing Parents Watch Their Child Die… but Won’t Be Getting Jail Time for It
132 replies, posted
Does anyone know their address?
[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;36287333]So...... what would Facepunch's reaction be if, instead of not calling a doctor because they were religious and thought they could "pray away" illness, they didn't call because they didn't have health insurance and would never be able to afford the procedure?[/QUOTE]
well in reality most doctors will help a dying person anyway so that's stupid but to humor you it's obviously an entirely different thing due to it being out of their control and that's a fault of the health care system and not ignorant parents
[QUOTE=draugur;36287311]There was no freedom of choice though, the kid had no choice to make, he was forced to die by his parents.[/QUOTE]
I waa talking about the parents' choice but ok
[QUOTE=draugur;36287027]Facepunch, where everyone should be allowed to be free and do as they believe, unless it's related to a religious practice, then we should take action against their beliefs.
Ironic and hypocritical much.
I'm not saying this is right or anything, they're fucking crazy by any standards but it is their freedom to practice their religion, it's kinda in the 1st Amendment.
I personally would love to see them face jail time and such but it's their right to practice their religious practice and thus I have to respect that.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny"]If you're going to live here learn the fucking law.[/URL]
bias source, but I totally agree, this is neglect and shouldnt be allowed.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36286494]The parents shouldnt get time, the person claiming to be a faith healer should for misleading them like this.[/QUOTE]
They all should, parent's too, just for being so utterly stupid.
[QUOTE=J Paul;36287323]Is everyone really this entitled? Yes I honestly believe this. I don't think the world owes me shit. If my parents were letting me die, then that's just how shit goes, too bad for me. In order to preserve the freedoms of all the decent, thinking, competent, intellectual people out there, my parents should be allowed to fuck up, I'm sorry if people disagree, but that's how I feel. That's the reason we're allowed to own guns; sure they can do a lot of terrible things, but in the interest of the people who have the capacity to use them correctly, they shouldn't be outlawed outright.[/QUOTE]
So in your analogy there is a "correct" use of not bringing your dying child to a hospital. Please explain when that is a "decent, thinking, competent, intellectual" thing to do.
It should be illegal to use alternative medicine before going to a real doctor. Especially when it involves kids.
[QUOTE=J Paul;36287323]Is everyone really this entitled? Yes I honestly believe this. I don't think the world owes me shit. If my parents were letting me die, then that's just how shit goes, too bad for me. In order to preserve the freedoms of all the decent, thinking, competent, intellectual people out there, my parents should be allowed to fuck up, I'm sorry if people disagree, but that's how I feel. That's the reason we're allowed to own guns; sure they can do a lot of terrible things, but in the interest of the people who have the capacity to use them correctly, they shouldn't be outlawed outright. I just don't like the idea of a nanny state telling me how to do things. If I'm going to be an asshole and make no effort into being a parent and do a shitty job at it, fine, take my kid and put him with someone who is capable of making proper decisions, but don't force me to live a certain lifestyle.
Look, children in other countries die every day of completely bullshit circumstances so that we may be able to purchase inexpensive electronics, so I don't see how anyone who's aware of that thinks this kid's entitled to anything different just because he happens to live in a comfortable first world nation.[/QUOTE]
yeah what a selfish cunt i've been all my life thinking that i'm entitled to the right to live
i mean it's not like it's in my country's constitution or anything i guess i'll go kill myself now
[editline]13:37[/editline]
i think you have self esteem issues
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;36287082]You might have freedom of religion but if you think that excuses killing your kids, you are fucked in the head.[/QUOTE]
Nice job making me want to actually even consider your side of the debate, what with the insults and all.
Yes the parents should be charged, I'm not debating that, this is totally wrong, yes. What I'm trying to get across is the point that if the kid had the freedom to choose what happened to him, it would be no worse than suicide, because it would be his choice. To outright ban their right to choose, you're imposing rules on people based on your own moral beliefs, which is wrong. It's a slippery slope to a complete totalitarian rule, which is really really bad.
The problem I'm speaking of isn't that the parents should or shouldn't get charged, hell yes they should, the problem isn't that they practiced this crap either. The problem I am stating is that they unwillingly forced the kid to partake in it, and it cost him his life, which is wrong. Oppression like this should be punished, but it's currently legal, the answer is to give people the freedom to choose, if the kid chose to seek medical help but was oppressed into this faith healing, they would be breaking a lot of laws, but they are currently immune to most charges because it's their religious right and they can oppress their kid because he's a minor, minors aren't given many rights, which is the problem.
They probably didn't prey hard enough :v:
[QUOTE=Secrios;36287548]They probably didn't prey hard enough :v:[/QUOTE]
Indeed, preying on children heals them :v:
[QUOTE=Protocol7;36286505]I can see why they make this legal but it's immoral as all hell. Why is it so hard for some religious people to coexist with modern technologies and medicine?[/QUOTE]
How can you see how it's legal?
Religious freedom does not extend to the act of indirectly killing others.
[QUOTE=draugur;36287495]Nice job making me want to actually even consider your side of the debate, what with the insults and all.
Yes the parents should be charged, I'm not debating that, this is totally wrong, yes. What I'm trying to get across is the point that if the kid had the freedom to choose what happened to him, it would be no worse than suicide, because it would be his choice. To outright ban their right to choose, you're imposing rules on people based on your own moral beliefs, which is wrong. It's a slippery slope to a complete totalitarian rule, which is really really bad.
The problem I'm speaking of isn't that the parents should or shouldn't get charged, hell yes they should, the problem isn't that they practiced this crap either. The problem I am stating is that they unwillingly forced the kid to partake in it, and it cost him his life, which is wrong. Oppression like this should be punished, but it's currently legal, the answer is to give people the freedom to choose, if the kid chose to seek medical help but was oppressed into this faith healing, they would be breaking a lot of laws, but they are currently immune to most charges because it's their religious right and they can oppress their kid because he's a minor, minors aren't given many rights, which is the problem.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
Let's imagine a Universe where minors have the right to choose what medical help they receive.
The parents brainwash their kid into believing that faith healing works.
He then chooses faith healing over modern medicine. If he had not been brainwashed, he wouldn't have died.
Are the parents then murderers?
You should realise "free choice" isn't as clear-cut as it seems on the surface. It's a word that disguises the values of who says it, it shouldn't even strictly be used in debates like this.
[QUOTE=draugur;36287495]Yes the parents should be charged, I'm not debating that, this is totally wrong, yes. What I'm trying to get across is the point that if the kid had the freedom to choose what happened to him, it would be no worse than suicide, because it would be his choice. To outright ban their right to choose, you're imposing rules on people based on your own moral beliefs, which is wrong. It's a [B]slippery slope[/B] to a complete totalitarian rule, which is really really bad.[/quote]
yay, fallacies!
[QUOTE=Secrios;36287548]They probably didn't prey hard enough :v:[/QUOTE]
Nah, it wasn't god's will. Thats what they always say when they are out of arguments.
[QUOTE=J Paul;36287323]Is everyone really this entitled? Yes I honestly believe this. I don't think the world owes me shit. [B]If my parents were letting me die, then that's just how shit goes, too bad for me.[/B] In order to preserve the freedoms of all the decent, thinking, competent, intellectual people out there, my parents should be allowed to fuck up, I'm sorry if people disagree, but that's how I feel. That's the reason we're allowed to own guns; sure they can do a lot of terrible things, but in the interest of the people who have the capacity to use them correctly, they shouldn't be outlawed outright. I just don't like the idea of a nanny state telling me how to do things. If I'm going to be an asshole and make no effort into being a parent and do a shitty job at it, fine, take my kid and put him with someone who is capable of making proper decisions, but don't force me to live a certain lifestyle.
Look, children in other countries die every day of completely bullshit circumstances so that we may be able to purchase inexpensive electronics, so I don't see how anyone who's aware of that thinks this kid's entitled to anything different just because he happens to live in a comfortable first world nation.[/QUOTE]Attitudes like that towards life are the reason why children in poor nations are dying in terrible conditions so we can have inexpensive electronics. Simply "that's just how shit goes" is no reason to just lay back and accept it. In practically every developed nation, a person's freedom ends when it infringes on the freedom of others. In this case, the parents' freedom of religion ends when the child's right to life begins. Just because children in other countries have a shit life, doesn't mean we should allow children in our nations to suffer similarly. Ideally the children in developing nations would be spared, but fuck, it's still a massive work in progress (or a clusterfuck, whichever you prefer).
A child is a responsibility, not property.
J Paul should go to Somalia to fulfill his anarchist desires.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36287596]Okay.
Let's imagine a Universe where minors have the right to choose what medical help they receive.
The parents brainwash their kid into believing that faith healing works.
He then chooses faith healing over modern medicine. If he had not been brainwashed, he wouldn't have died.
Are the parents then murderers?
You should realise "free choice" isn't as clear-cut as it seems on the surface. It's a word that disguises the values of who says it, it shouldn't even strictly be used in debates like this.[/QUOTE]
Good point. It's a rather tough subject to be honest. I'm rather inclined to agree that extreme dangerous practices should be outlawed, but at the same time it'd have to be strictly in cases like this and only this because I personally do face religious oppression and know what it's like, and it's wrong outside of human rights violations.
My parents are extremist hardcore Atheists and the rest of my family is extremist hardcore Christian or Morman. I've been beaten for having a religious faith and I've been pretty much outcast by the rest of my family for not being Christian or Morman.
Ironically one of the few people that accept me is a Jahovah's Witness.
The others are sensible Atheists and Wiccans.
Weird how that works I guess.
Damn kid was practically an adult, he should have been able to consent to medical treatment. If he chose this on his own accord then so be it, since the decision was made entirely by his parents they should be held fully accountable for his death.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36286494]The parents shouldnt get time, the person claiming to be a faith healer should for misleading them like this.[/QUOTE]
Nope, they should still get time, if someone is brainwashed to the point where they are [b]watching your child die[/b], you lack common sense and are an idiot, you deserved to be jailed for a long time.
Also the person that tell parents this bullshit should be jailed too.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36287810]Damn kid was practically an adult, he should have been able to consent to medical treatment. If he chose this on his own accord then so be it, since the decision was made entirely by his parents they should be held fully accountable for his death.[/QUOTE]
His parents would still have been morally responsible for indoctrinating him to believe that in the first place.
[QUOTE=J Paul;36286675]I'm probably going to get a lot of disagreement for this, but I believe this is perfectly okay. If these goofy parents want to let their kid die, I'm okay with that. There are enough people, it's very very very easy to make more, it's a known method, so overall, the hit that humanity takes from these goofy religious people just isn't significant. It's just one less white privileged kid, one less person to sponge off the amazing comfort provided by our technology and our exploitation of third world labor. And I know he's privileged because first off he lives in America, it's amazing here compared to a lot of other places, and second, denying abundantly available medical care is something that only goofy ass privileged white people do when they get to a certain point in their life where they feel the need to seek alternative lifestyles.[/QUOTE]
Wow.....you are just..wow, you're really...ugh, stupid as hell for thinking it's fine, how could you possibly fucking think parents watching their son die in agonizing pain is fine? Do you know how painful appendicitis is? I don't, because I've never had it, but I have heard it can be extraordinarily painful. If you think it's ok, you're just an idiot, plain and simple.
[QUOTE=J Paul;36286675]I'm probably going to get a lot of disagreement for this, but I believe this is perfectly okay. If these goofy parents want to let their kid die, I'm okay with that. There are enough people, it's very very very easy to make more, it's a known method, so overall, the hit that humanity takes from these goofy religious people just isn't significant. It's just one less white privileged kid, one less person to sponge off the amazing comfort provided by our technology and our exploitation of third world labor. And I know he's privileged because first off he lives in America, it's amazing here compared to a lot of other places, and second, denying abundantly available medical care is something that only goofy ass privileged white people do when they get to a certain point in their life where they feel the need to seek alternative lifestyles.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you just go kill yourself then?
[QUOTE=J Paul;36286741]Well I'm not saying I'd rather he died, I'm saying that, if it has to be this way, and since my personal feelings don't have anything to do with it because it's the parent's decision, then I'm cool with it, that's just the way it has to be, because they have a right to make it that way and I don't have the right to take that decision away from them.
Also, to me, this is on the same level of 'goofy white parents' stuff that caused the mother to end up with a terrible name like JaLea, except the degree of impact to the child is just on a completely different level.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck? You do NOT have a right to let your kid die because of bullshit religious reasons, that's disgusting, and horrible that parents would do that. Who gives a fuck if it's the parents decision. They are making a horribly shitty choice.
[editline]11th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=J Paul;36286806]Look, I think people are interpreting my stance incorrectly. What I'm saying is that just because you disagree with it on a moral standpoint, how does that give you any right to interfere? I mean, if they honestly believe that what they're doing is the best thing they could do for their kid, then all you can do is offer them advice and hope they listen, and I'm sure lots of people did, but other than that, they had the kid, ultimately, it's legally their responsibility as to what to do with him.
Well no, I'm just disagreeing with the people saying action should be taken. Whether or not I want the kid to die, which I don't, has nothing to do with it, it's just not my place to say what should or shouldn't be in that situation, it's not my kid.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they sure were responsible for him, totally made the right choice. It's another fucking human being, if someone is being shitty to that person, you have every goddamn right to help, doesn't matter if it's your kid or not, some people are terrible parents.
You know, if God's real, maybe after God keeps letting people die when people choose to pray rather than seek medical attention, maybe God isn't too interested in you and you should use the resources that you [I]know[/I] that you have.
[QUOTE=Cone;36286597]that's super-immoral and ignorant but it's not really a crime unless you go for manslaughter[/QUOTE]
How is that not a crime? The kid was 17 and the parents are responsible for his well being. This is Child neglect.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36286987]Imo they should get time and quite a fucking long one at that.[/QUOTE]
Life in a really shitty prison, sounds about right for what these parents did.
[editline]11th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=draugur;36287027]Facepunch, where everyone should be allowed to be free and do as they believe, unless it's related to a religious practice, then we should take action against their beliefs.
Ironic and hypocritical much.
I'm not saying this is right or anything, they're fucking crazy by any standards but it is their freedom to practice their religion, it's kinda in the 1st Amendment.
I personally would love to see them face jail time and such but it's their right to practice their religious practice and thus I have to respect that.[/QUOTE]
You respect parents essentially killing their kids because of religious beliefs? That's so fucked.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36287990]His parents would still have been morally responsible for indoctrinating him to believe that in the first place.[/QUOTE]
True, but if he chose to believe it rather than branch out he's accountable for his own death. It's not like he was a 5 year old who can only comprehend concrete thinking, at 17 you're pretty capable of making those types of choices.
It's like this: I believe that drugs should be legal to adults; however, if you steal shit and pawn it to support your drug habit, you should be penalized like anyone else who steals things for any reason.
I don't care if you have the same religious views as the Taliban, but the second you hurt someone else, you should be in deep shit.
EDIT:
And if that lower part is the case, then UncleJimmema is going to fuck you up.
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