[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;43862657]Don't get a superior attitude and say "I'm right nothing more to say." I don't have exact statistics but I'm willing to bet that most homosexuals aren't interested in football and the few that are usually don't pursue a professional career, nor have the talent to get into the NFL. Those that are already in would probably prefer not to talk about it.
[editline]10th February 2014[/editline]
Needless to say, Michael Sam will go into the NFL by at least the 6th round, probably much earlier. He will develop into at least a backup role and will be a well-respected and admirable football player. Anything different is the media twisting the situation.[/QUOTE]
believe it or not being gay doesn't make you any more or less interested in football just like being straight doesn't
[editline]11th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=sgman91;43863550]I honestly can't think of a good reason for someone to go to the media in order to proclaim one's sexual preference to the world.
It might effect his draft chances and it might not, but you can bet that people will blame it on this if he doesn't, whether proof exists for the claim or not.[/QUOTE]
probably because you're straight
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43863554]probably because you're straight[/QUOTE]
Great use of a logical fallacy. Just like men can't have an opinion on abortion, right?
[QUOTE=sgman91;43863574]Great use of a logical fallacy. Just like men can't have an opinion on abortion, right?[/QUOTE]
you're gonna call logical fallacy on me then say that straight afterwards?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43863612]you're gonna call logical fallacy on me then say that straight afterwards?[/QUOTE]
Simply pointing out the fallacy that you are using. It's the same one as people who say that men can't have a valid opinion on abortion because they can't have children.
[QUOTE=sgman91;43863644]Simply pointing out the fallacy that you are using. It's the same one as people who say that men can't have a valid opinion on abortion because they can't have children.[/QUOTE]
except you didn't even say anything about opinion and neither did i? you said you can't think of a good reason, i said it's probably because you're straight. so yeah sorry but you are gonna have a harder time understanding why coming out is a big deal to gay people.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43863682]except you didn't even say anything about opinion and neither did i? you said you can't think of a good reason, i said it's probably because you're straight. so yeah sorry but you are gonna have a harder time understanding why coming out is a big deal to gay people.[/QUOTE]
Let me state the implied argument more directly then: There is no reason to desire everyone to know one's sexual preference beyond the context of simply living your own life. Acts like going to the media in order to proclaim it to the entire world seem to be based on no rational argument. If you know of a rational argument, please state it as such.
If an argument is based on fact, logic, and reason, then the group that the reader exists has no relevance.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;43855333]
You really think that sexual preference is going to be that big of a deterrent? If a deaf man such as Coleman can get picked up, I'm sure as Hell certain that Sam can get on as well.[/QUOTE]
The majority of Americans do not adhere to a religion that condemns deaf people.
I understand that the majority of Americans [i]do[/i] support homosexual people but the NFL is a rather conservative thing
[QUOTE=sgman91;43863721]Let me state the implied argument more directly then: There is no reason to desire everyone to know one's sexual preference beyond the context of simply living your own life. Acts like going to the media in order to proclaim it to the entire world seem to be based on no rational argument. If you know of a rational argument, please state it as such.
If an argument is based on fact, logic, and reason, then the group that the reader exists has no relevance.[/QUOTE]
and i'll say again, you don't have that reason because you're straight. you don't understand how important coming out is to gay people, especially when you're someone within quite a homophobic/religious industry. maybe it is irrational that doesn't make it any less important to the person themselves. sorry spockgman91 but not everything is 100% logical
Coming out is important because there are borderline homophobes out there who simply don't have any experiences with gay people (well, people they [i]know[/i] to be gay) and think that they're all the stereotypes portrayed by actual homophobes. Sometimes just knowing a gay person in real life, either a personal friend or a celebrity, makes a difference. It won't change the opinions of hardline religious conservatives but those people really don't matter anyway since they're gradually becoming just a fringe group.
yeah i mean we literally have someone in this thread who's claiming gays just aren't as interested in football and those that are just aren't very good
I find it incredibly disheartening that many people's reactions to this is that he shouldn't be drafted just because of his sexual preference or whatever. It's sad that we still live with so many intolerant bigots these days.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;43854045]Jesus christ you guys are pessimistic. Toxx: If he goes undrafted or gets drafted in the 7th round, ban me until the next draft.[/QUOTE]
Toxx accepted
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43863760]and i'll say again, you don't have that reason because you're straight. you don't understand how important coming out is to gay people, especially when you're someone within quite a homophobic/religious industry. maybe it is irrational that doesn't make it any less important to the person themselves. sorry spockgman91 but not everything is 100% logical[/QUOTE]
If it's non-rational then there's no reason that I should accept it as legitimate. Feeling good about something isn't a legitimate reason to do something. Mock me all you want with childish name calling, but it doesn't make your point any more than an emotional appeal.
[QUOTE]Sometimes just knowing a gay person... a celebrity, makes a difference.[/QUOTE]
Is there any evidence of this? I've never seen or heard of a single person who changed their opinion on something like homosexuality because of a celebrity coming out as gay.
[QUOTE=sgman91;43864688]Is there any evidence of this? I've never seen or heard of a single person who changed their opinion on something like homosexuality because of a celebrity coming out as gay.[/QUOTE]
it's called awareness, and it's hugely studied and employed to try to change peoples' opinions about things. if someone disagrees with something, you educate them on why perhaps they shouldn't, and it may change their opinion. it is used for approximately everything: wearing your seatbelt, using protection during sex, the importance of healthy eating, or that a certain group of people (black, Chinese, homosexual) aren't inferior. role models such as celebrities and other public figures can change peoples' opinions by creating cognitive dissonance - "if gay people are terrible, then why is Neil Patrick Harris so cool? maybe I'm wrong"
[QUOTE=sgman91;43864688]If it's non-rational then there's no reason that I should accept it as legitimate. Feeling good about something isn't a legitimate reason to do something. Mock me all you want with childish name calling, but it doesn't make your point any more than an emotional appeal.
Is there any evidence of this? I've never seen or heard of a single person who changed their opinion on something like homosexuality because of a celebrity coming out as gay.[/QUOTE]
again, maybe feeling good about your sexuality isn't a legitimate reason for you because you're straight. you haven't had to live with thinking or being told that the way you are is abnormal and wrong and that you shouldn't feel the way you feel. i am going to mock you because sorry dude humans are emotional creatures we're not robots. as for evidence, it's pretty obvious isn't it that greater awareness on issues will make people more knowledgeable and accepting of them.
I would've targeted he came out during the draft
"Id like to thank the Washington redskins for drafting the first openly gay member of the NFL"
Dan Snyder and Riger Goodell are all smiles as they look on in horror
[editline]10th February 2014[/editline]
Since I doubt many people here will watch the draft, I will leave two pre-recorded responses here, when one gets snipped, that is the result.
Well, Michael Sam didn't get drafted despite being co-defensive player of the year in the toughest conference in football, and playing for a powerhouse team that could have done better things if well coached. I am writing this hopefully because of a disastrous combine, not gay rights. If it is the latter, the NFL has failed me and I will feel the need to disown it. This is a terrible, terrible day for gay rights in America
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dPDO3Tfab0[/media]
Hey Michael Sam got drafted! Yay! The NFL may have just proved they weren't bigoted shitheads after all and we can live in peace knowing something good happened! Yay! [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/rainbow.png[/img]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjPqsDU0j2I[/media]
I'm just fed up with the media blowing it out of proportion, honestly. The guy doesn't play the game to raise gay awareness. Shit, he didn't come out to the media until now because he knew it'd be a shitstorm. Let the man play ball and move on with life. Gays in the NFL is not a big deal, at least to me.
[editline]11th February 2014[/editline]
And I know the homosexuals aren't as interested in football thing is a bit of a stereotype but its going by personal knowledge talking with gay friends.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;43867194]I'm just fed up with the media blowing it out of proportion, honestly. The guy doesn't play the game to raise gay awareness. Shit, he didn't come out to the media until now because he knew it'd be a shitstorm. Let the man play ball and move on with life. Gays in the NFL is not a big deal, at least to me.[/QUOTE]
what the fuck? he's a human being too, yknow? he's allowed to talk about his personal life and not just football if he wants too, and you're acting like he shouldn't be allowed to talk about anything other than sports.
saying that "he doesn't play the game to raise gay awareness" is incredibly ignorant. if he was being discriminated against for being black, would you say he shouldn't speak out against it since he doesn't play the game to raise racial awareness?
[quote]And I know the homosexuals aren't as interested in football thing is a bit of a stereotype but its going by personal knowledge talking with gay friends.[/quote]
when you use your anecdotal evidence to judge all the homosexuals in the world i don't think you're really thinking it through
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;43869985]what the fuck? he's a human being too, yknow? he's allowed to talk about his personal life and not just football if he wants too, and you're acting like he shouldn't be allowed to talk about anything other than sports.
saying that "he doesn't play the game to raise gay awareness" is incredibly ignorant. if he was being discriminated against for being black, would you say he shouldn't speak out against it since he doesn't play the game to raise racial awareness?[/QUOTE]
[url]www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000324957/article/michael-sam-to-focus-on-football-not-activism[/url]
Consider it an official reason to shut the fuck up
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;43870589][url]www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000324957/article/michael-sam-to-focus-on-football-not-activism[/url]
Consider it an official reason to shut the fuck up[/QUOTE]
quit sperging out on me, my point still stands
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;43870654]quit sperging out on me, my point still stands[/QUOTE]
"Saying that he doesn't play the game to raise gay awareness is incredibly ignorant"
He has no plans to be an activist. He just wants to play ball. Stop making it more than it is.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;43871235]"Saying that he doesn't play the game to raise gay awareness is incredibly ignorant"
He has no plans to be an activist. He just wants to play ball. Stop making it more than it is.[/QUOTE]
lmao and it isn't incredibly ignorant why? who the fuck said he has plans to be an activist? i sure as hell didn't, so i fail to see how what you posted changes anything
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;43871396]lmao and it isn't incredibly ignorant why? who the fuck said he has plans to be an activist? i sure as hell didn't, so i fail to see how what you posted changes anything[/QUOTE]
Then how does he play to raise awareness? You're being confusing as fuck.
he doesn't play to raise awareness because he does more than just play, for fucks sake. he's a person. he can talk about whatever he wants, and he decided to talk about how he's a homosexual.
Huh, saw his old roommate post about this on facebook. Weird seeing it here. Best of luck to him
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