Former Ohio mayor allegedly admits raping 4-year-old and argues it was 'her fault'
63 replies, posted
[QUOTE=geel9;51050603]By all means, kill yourself if you commit an atrocity, should you want to. That's totally cool with me.
But you have hands, arms, and legs (I assume), and you're stronger than a 4 year old girl (I assume). Physically, that's all that's required for you to commit a horrible act. All that's left is for your mind to give, which happens [b]all the time.[/b][/QUOTE]
That happens all the time to very specific people with very specific mental disorders. I do not have those, and most people don't have those either, that's why it doesn't actually happen all the time.
Also [b]bold text[/b] doesn't make your [b]arguments[/b] make more [b]sense[/b]
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;51050641]That happens all the time to very specific people with very specific mental disorders. I do not have those, and most people don't have those either, that's why it doesn't actually happen all the time.
Also [b]bold text[/b] doesn't make your [b]arguments[/b] make more [b]sense[/b][/QUOTE]
There's a reason that there's different degrees of murder. Murder that's planned out beforehand is treated very differently from murder that happens unplanned, out of passion, in the moment. Normal people in extraordinary circumstances can do things they would never do otherwise, such as end the life of another human being.
I don't use it to make my arguments "make more sense", I use it to provide [b]emphasis[/b], which is [b]an important part of communication[/b].
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51050686][b]You[/b] make it sound [b]so easy.[/b] Like as much of an accident as tripping over [b]untied laces[/b][/QUOTE]
Not really. It requires seriously extraordinary circumstances for someone with no prior inclination to do something like that. That's your own faulty [b]strawman[/b] of my [b]argument[/b], which includes [b]pointing out emphasis as some sort of fault[/b] to make yourself look [b]superior for no reason[/b].
[QUOTE=geel9;51050654]There's a reason that there's different degrees of murder. Murder that's planned out beforehand is treated very differently from murder that happens unplanned, out of passion, in the moment. Normal people in extraordinary circumstances can do things they would never do otherwise, such as end the life of another human being.
I don't use it to make my arguments "make more sense", I use it to provide [b]emphasis[/b], which is [b]an important part of communication[/b].[/QUOTE]
What does that have to do with anything? This guy raped 8 people, there's no way he wasn't completely aware of what he was doing all 8 times
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51050016]Find me a good reason not to just try him, find him guilty, and then just put a cap in the back of his head.
Please, please try to justify allowing this person to continue living.
This man has admitted to raping a child and then blames the child for it. No amount of ~mental health care~ can save this waste of space.[/QUOTE]
That isn't how the justice system works sorry. Killing the man won't undo anything he's done and most likely won't make things any easier for the victim. You put him in jail and remove him from society for the rest of his life, believe it or not there are other forms of punishment outside of state sanctioned murder.
This is your idea of justice and it's nothing more than a revenge fantasy.
Regular people are perfectly capable of doing horrible shit given the right circumstances.
I mean, all you really have to do is convince them that the person they're beating/murdering/raping is less than human, or deserves it for some reason. And that really isn't as hard as it should be.
That's how you can get an entire town to lynch someone, or how you can get an entire country to aid in committing genocide against a certain ethnic group. Humans have mechanisms for turning off empathy. We should know, because they're the same mechanisms people are using in this thread.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;51050766]What does that have to do with anything? This guy raped 8 people, there's no way he wasn't completely aware of what he was doing all 8 times[/QUOTE]
Absolutely, this guy is fucked up. Maybe he was born that way; maybe something happened to him in his life that changed him to be okay with fucking 4 year old girls. Hell, it's probable he was himself molested or raped as a child -- which is a well-known risk factor for being sexually attracted to children later in life.
Which further feeds into my point -- people who would otherwise never even think of harming children can have their entire perspectives warped if they themselves are molested as a child.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51050784]Regular people are perfectly capable of doing horrible shit given the right circumstances.
I mean, all you really have to do is convince them that the person they're beating/murdering/raping is less than human, or deserves it for some reason. And that really isn't as hard as it should be.
That's how you can get an entire town to lynch someone, or how you can get an entire country to aid in committing genocide against a certain ethnic group. Humans have mechanisms for turning off empathy. We should know, because they're the same mechanisms people are using in this thread.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The same metric that people use to judge the death sentence ("he's subhuman garbage, he doesn't deserve life") is the [b]same metric[/b] that many serial killers use. "He's causing the moral decay of society by being an atheist/christian/muslim/buddhist", "they're horrible, disgusting people that must be cleansed", etc.
It's the same rationale -- the belief that some people are deserving of death and some aren't; and, chiefly, that [b]you have the ability to discern between them[/b].
[editline]14th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51050795]Haha. Well, anyway, the point is so what? Anyone is capable of this, according to you at least, so would you mind spelling out your point that follows after? So what?[/QUOTE]
I already spelled out my point in my original comment. Did you not read it?
Here you go:
[QUOTE=geel9;51050405]People are comfortable with killing other people because it's easier to say they're "subhuman" and "deserve death" than it is to accept the fact that [b]any human[/b] is capable of committing [b]any number of atrocities[/b], and it makes them no less human.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51050831]Oh, right. Yeah I read that, I suppose you didn't read the multiple people accepting that the death penalty applies to people and that they accept that, myself included. So in regard to the post you thought I didn't read, please tell me again, [b]so what?[/b][/QUOTE]
Well, it was a point I made, and people responded to it. The conversation seems to have devolved into "is a normal human being capable of committing horrible acts under the right circumstances", and there seems to be a differing of opinions here; hence why we're talking about it.
What are you doing besides trying to devolve a conversation with a smug sense of superiority?
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51049731]Life sentence with no parole.[/QUOTE]
When you're going to prison for raping a 4-year old any sentence is a life sentence.
[editline]a[/editline]
Jared from Subway didn't even touch any actual kids and he got his face bashed the fuck in.
I feel like I need to stop posting in S. Headlines, but can we all stop with the arguing over Capital Punishment? The only reason we should use such things is if they've committed something incredibly heinous. Acts such as genocide, usage of chemical weapons, torture. I'm all for killing him, believe me. But that's why I'm not the one making the decisions of life and death.
That being said, he is a piece of literal human shit. He doesn't deserve anything other than life without parole.
E: two words because i went full retard for some reason
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51050920]It seems curiosity and eager listening for you to refine your points comes across to you as devolution and smug attacks. Which are shitty assumptions and just a real shame for everyone, yourself included.
I'm pointing out that it seems you haven't argued too much further past "all killers are people" which is a sentiment I agree with, and I'd like to hear if you got any points more salient than that against the death penalty.
But if you want some of the smugness you're grasping for, then I can at least tell you I'm glad you made another post with neither strawmen nor some needlessly distracting bolding, haha.[/QUOTE]
I've made multiple other points against the death penalty; if you had fully read the thread, you'd see them:
[QUOTE=geel9;51050319]Killing the dude just serves to make your justice boners harder, it does nothing to help anyone.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=geel9;51050543]
Beyond that, there's no point in killing these people. All it does is serve to satisfy your own revenge bloodlust. It doesn't help anyone or fix anything; it just serves to assert that you have the right to decide who lives and who dies.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=geel9;51050801]Exactly. The same metric that people use to judge the death sentence ("he's subhuman garbage, he doesn't deserve life") is the [b]same metric[/b] that many serial killers use. "He's causing the moral decay of society by being an atheist/christian/muslim/buddhist", "they're horrible, disgusting people that must be cleansed", etc.
It's the same rationale -- the belief that some people are deserving of death and some aren't; and, chiefly, that [b]you have the ability to discern between them[/b].[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51051005]Oh. Those are the guns you're sticking with? Of all the reasons you could find you're gonna stick with multiple cases of trying to paint everyone else as some bloodthirsty lynch mob, then another assumption meant to compare the other side to serial killers that promptly got shot down, and finally one decent enough ([b]bolded, lol[/b]) point? Heck.[/QUOTE]
You seem like a pretty toxic person, man.
i am personally against the death penalty purely because i don't like the state having the ability to decide who lives and dies from a judicial standpoint. however, i would not be bothered by this guy dying. with more than 7 billion people on this planet i would rather save my sympathy for those who haven't raped a 4 year old child over the period of years
[editline]14th September 2016[/editline]
sure, try fixing him if you can. if you do, i doubt he would ever be able to return to anything like a normal life. that past would haunt him to his grave
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51051221]That's a bold claim coming from an arsenal of hostility and accusations like yourself to me, someone actively hearing you out. But I'll file that away in my folder of things I've been called on the internet. Got any more?[/QUOTE]
I really feel it'd do some good if you were to take a real, analytical look at the way you present yourself to other people and how you treat them. I know I have my own issues with how I treat people on the internet and in general; it's something I'm working on actively. I urge you to do the same.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51051132]i am personally against the death penalty purely because i don't like the state having the ability to decide who lives and dies from a judicial standpoint. however, i would not be bothered by this guy dying.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. The state shouldn't have that amount of power. Yet as you pointed out, its very complicated.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;51050507]That really sounds like you're projecting. Notify your nearest police department ASAP, please.
I really can't imagine any combination of drugs/sleep deprivation/whatever after which I would rape any person, let alone a toddler.[/QUOTE]
There was a case of a man who had a brain tumor that gave him pedophilic behavior. When they removed it, the behavior and urges stopped. When it came back again, so did his desire, and when they removed it again and so went the desire. Your brain is a physical thing. The outside world effects your mind.
There is also that dude who took a railroad spike to the head and became the biggest asshole on the planet. This shit is a well documented thing.
[editline]14th September 2016[/editline]
The only thing that separates your thought process and this mayor's thought process is the chemical balance in your brain. This goes for all of us.
[editline]14th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51050784]Regular people are perfectly capable of doing horrible shit given the right circumstances.
I mean, all you really have to do is convince them that the person they're beating/murdering/raping is less than human, or deserves it for some reason. And that really isn't as hard as it should be.
That's how you can get an entire town to lynch someone, or how you can get an entire country to aid in committing genocide against a certain ethnic group. Humans have mechanisms for turning off empathy. We should know, because they're the same mechanisms people are using in this thread.[/QUOTE]
There is also this. Even 'regular' human beings are capable of committing atrocities. Authority also works, as we saw with the Nazi's. Human beings have PLENTY of mechanisms to give them 'justification' to do horrible things to other human beings.
All the bolding in this thread makes me feel like I'm reading a Frank Miller comic, yeesh.
[quote]He pleaded not guilty last month, but prosecutors said he had admitted the assault to his wife, a pastor, a social worker and his brother and sister-in-law[/quote]
A elderly man goes into confession and says to the priest,
“Father, I’m 80 years old, married, have four kids and eleven healthy grandchildren, and last night I had an affair with two 18 year old girls. I made love with both of them… twice.”
The priest said, “Well, my son, when was the last time you were in confession?”
“Never Father… I’m Jewish.”
“So then, why are you telling me?”
“I’m telling everybody!”
[QUOTE=_Axel;51050140]IIRC sex offenders are put in a separate part of the prison, though.[/QUOTE]
That's bullshit. Put freaks like this guy in with the rest of the population. They shouldn't have to protect his disgusting ass. Let the prison ecosystem sort this out.
[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51051668]That's bullshit. Put freaks like this guy in with the rest of the population. They shouldn't have to protect his disgusting ass. Let the prison ecosystem sort this out.[/QUOTE]
I assume you're for the death penalty, then.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;51050051]Well there's the whole sanctity of human life thing, but that probably won't convince you. Concerns about permitting the state to take life, maybe? Perhaps the old argument that killing someone isn't justice, it's revenge? I mean I don't care what happens to him, but don't dress it up as something noble and just.[/QUOTE]
So a life is so sacred that it should be forced to suffer an entire lifetime of imprisonment rather than a few seconds of pain to be set free forever? I'd say life in prison is the worst possible form of torture ever conceived.
[QUOTE=space1;51051883]So a life is so sacred that it should be forced to suffer an entire lifetime of imprisonment rather than a few seconds of pain to be set free forever? I'd say life in prison is the worst possible form of torture ever conceived.[/QUOTE]
I know precisely nothing about American prisons, but I know enough about British prisons to know that prisons needn't and shouldn't be torture.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;51050641]That happens all the time to very specific people with very specific mental disorders. I do not have those, and most people don't have those either, that's why it doesn't actually happen all the time.
Also [b]bold text[/b] doesn't make your [b]arguments[/b] make more [b]sense[/b][/QUOTE]
Except it doesn't specifically happen to people with mental disorders. The human brain is extremely flawed, and mistakes can easily be made by humans. To such a degree where people can die because of it.
any child molester that goes to prison is an automatic death sentence when the inmates finds out
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51051005]Oh. Those are the guns you're sticking with? Of all the reasons you could find you're gonna stick with multiple cases of trying to paint everyone else as some bloodthirsty lynch mob, then another assumption meant to compare the other side to serial killers that promptly got shot down, and finally one decent enough ([b]bolded, lol[/b]) point? Heck.[/QUOTE]
People can be reformed, it's completely possible. Killing one person off because he raped a child only serves yours, and other peoples, crude feeling of accomplishment by vengeance.
It's the easy way out of punishing somebody, and one that quite frankly doesn't even punish him that much.
You shouldn't want to get rid of the human, you should want to help him and make him realize what he did was wrong and then own up to it.
Point is, there is SOMETHING that has gone on in this man's life that caused him to rape a child, and that's worth fixing.
Psychiatric help along with a long amount of community service and huge fines (payments towards the family/families involved) would be an infinitely more productive way of dealing with him than simply executing him via prison inmates or the death sentence.
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