Stop arguing semantics, it's obvious what the point is.
Fascists use political oppression and violence, Antifa use political oppression and violence.
antifa's slogan should be:
"[I]it's not fascism when we do it![/I]"
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52157771]Antifa are only "anti-fascist" is name, but they're entirely fascist in practice. Violence and turmoil as a political weapon to suppress ideas they don't like.[/QUOTE]
my brain melts, its gooey remains sliding out of my ears, dripping like sun-kissed ice towards the ground. A puddle of melted brain has begun to form by my feet. I can feel the liquefied remains of my grey matter fill the space between my toes. I know I am slowly dying, but I cannot help but continue to stare at the cause. A post on Facepunch. So utterly terrible my brain can do nothing but reject it. [I]Antifa are only "anti-fascist" is name, but they're entirely fascist in practice[/I] it reads. I weep as my brain slowly drains from my skull. A darkness begins to grip my vision. With the last strength I have remaining in my body I whisper 'I don't think you know what fascism means...'
I die (of embarrassment for you)
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Threadshitting" - Reagy))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;52159335]my brain melts, its gooey remains sliding out of my ears, dripping like sun-kissed ice towards the ground. A puddle of melted brain has begun to form by my feet. I can feel the liquefied remains of my grey matter fill the space between my toes. I know I am slowly dying, but I cannot help but continue to stare at the cause. A post on Facepunch. So utterly terrible my brain can do nothing but reject it. [I]Antifa are only "anti-fascist" is name, but they're entirely fascist in practice[/I] it reads. I weep as my brain slowly drains from my skull. A darkness begins to grip my vision. With the last strength I have remaining in my body I whisper 'I don't think you know what fascism means...'
I die (of embarrassment for you)[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should have spent time arguing why you think his statement is wrong rather than making an "Opposing opinions are suffering" poem.
ok. the equivalence that antifa=ironically fascists which is repeated ad nauseam in every one of this threads as if it is some sort of mad zinger is a dumb meme which betrays a cynical ignorance which turns fascism into a catch-all term that means 'something i don't like'. its the same childish line of thought which goes into calling trump a fascist. it purposefully magnifies details which have their crossover in fascism but ignores the wider picture as part of some dumb smug one-upsmanship to help people feel superior. fascism has a tricky definition, sure, but diluting it further into an utterly meaningless term as people do when they say antifa=fascist is a sign of childish name-calling and a disturbing normalisation the term which makes it harder to identify and call out actual fascists.
i mean fundamentally fascism doesnt have a monopoly on political violence and no matter how many threads there are where someone tells people that this shit keeps popping up. its brainless reptetition and deserves the kind of contempt i gave it
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;52159467]ok. the equivalence that antifa=ironically fascists which is repeated ad nauseam in every one of this threads as if it is some sort of mad zinger is a dumb meme which betrays a cynical ignorance which turns fascism into a catch-all term that means 'something i don't like'. its the same childish line of thought which goes into calling trump a fascist. it purposefully magnifies details which have their crossover in fascism but ignores the wider picture as part of some dumb smug one-upsmanship to help people feel superior. fascism has a tricky definition, sure, but diluting it further into an utterly meaningless term as people do when they say antifa=fascist is a sign of childish name-calling and a disturbing normalisation the term which makes it harder to identify and call out actual fascists.
i mean fundamentally fascism doesnt have a monopoly on political violence and no matter how many threads there are where someone tells people that this shit keeps popping up. its brainless reptetition and deserves the kind of contempt i gave it[/QUOTE]It hardly over-simplifies it, it describes their behavior. Its not magnifying anything or ignoring a wider picture, it using the information on hand and connecting it with a relevant point. If anything, needlessly dramatizing it in such a way is more a problem than calling a group fascist for methodology which follows in line with that of fascists.
Uh yeah some of my more right wing friends was watching Tim Pool's livestream about berkley, and one of Antifa Shouted out, "Like Russia and China we'll purge millions to install communism", nice job announcing your going to murder millions of people in front of the police numb-nuts.
Also we are seeing arrests of Antifa at Berkeley finally
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52159527]It hardly over-simplifies it, it describes their behavior. Its not magnifying anything or ignoring a wider picture, it using the information on hand and connecting it with a relevant point. If anything, needlessly dramatizing it in such a way is more a problem than calling a group fascist for methodology which follows in line with that of fascists.[/QUOTE]
You did say "Antifa are only "anti-fascist" is name, but they're entirely fascist in practice." So Antifa shuts down a protest and Fascists have previously shut down protests. ergo Antifa are Fascists?
its pretty dumb logic if you can make out basically every government and every political movement ever to be a fascist by using the same formula. I mean, we could use Fascism and a contextualized term referring to an authoritarian, revolutionary-reactionary movement but lol nope it apparently just means 'people being meanies'. And you wonder why I'm moaning people diluting to term, because its already become a meaningless catch-all phrase for 'things i dont like' with people, like yourself, attributing to shit that may have superficial similarities but is fundamentally unlike it. I mean, it really seems like you didn't even bother to read the last two sentences, where I mentioned that Fascists don't have a monopoly on political violence, so calling people who use political violence 'fascists' is like calling all football fans 'brazilian' because there are brazilian football fans.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;52159610]You did say "Antifa are only "anti-fascist" is name, but they're entirely fascist in practice." So Antifa shuts down a protest and Fascists have previously shut down protests. ergo Antifa are Fascists?
its pretty dumb logic if you can make out basically every government and every political movement ever to be a fascist by using the same formula. I mean, we could use Fascism and a contextualized term referring to an authoritarian, revolutionary-reactionary movement but lol nope it apparently just means 'people being meanies'. And you wonder why I'm moaning people diluting to term, because its already become a meaningless catch-all phrase for 'things i dont like' with people, like yourself, attributing to shit that may have superficial similarities but is fundamentally unlike it. I mean, it really seems like you didn't even bother to read the last two sentences, where I mentioned that Fascists don't have a monopoly on political violence, so calling people who use political violence 'fascists' is like calling all football fans 'brazilian' because there are brazilian football fans.[/QUOTE]Well, if you want to ignore everything I said, which I'm not sure you actually read, then sure. Except its actually deals with their practice of using violence as a means to crush any dissension or opposition, while at the same time using threats of violence to coerce others in to listening to them, giving them airtime, and giving in to demands. They don't just target fascists either, its anyone whose politics aren't close enough to theirs. So it defies even being anti-fascists that way.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52158553]i do think it is kind of funny antifa adopted black and red as their colors, which are colors i would also associate with the nazis[/QUOTE]
Black and red were the colors used by anarchists in the Spanish Civil War, and then became widely adopted after being used in the CNT-FAI flag.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;52159610]You did say "Antifa are only "anti-fascist" is name, but they're entirely fascist in practice." So Antifa shuts down a protest and Fascists have previously shut down protests. ergo Antifa are Fascists?
its pretty dumb logic if you can make out basically every government and every political movement ever to be a fascist by using the same formula. I mean, we could use Fascism and a contextualized term referring to an authoritarian, revolutionary-reactionary movement but lol nope it apparently just means 'people being meanies'. And you wonder why I'm moaning people diluting to term, because its already become a meaningless catch-all phrase for 'things i dont like' with people, like yourself, attributing to shit that may have superficial similarities but is fundamentally unlike it. I mean, it really seems like you didn't even bother to read the last two sentences, where I mentioned that Fascists don't have a monopoly on political violence, so calling people who use political violence 'fascists' is like calling all football fans 'brazilian' because there are brazilian football fans.[/QUOTE]
You're absolutely right. Fascist isn't a catch-all term for people that employ violence for political means. There's a different word for that.
Fucking terrorists.
Neo-nazis/alt-righters and antifascists are basically fighting a localized culture war.
The far-right announces it'll show up somewhere, antifa shows up there, and shit goes to hell.
Antifa announces it'll show up somewhere, the far-right shows up there, and shit goes to hell.
Even though I hate both, I remember someone elucidating the differences between them:
The way to stop antifa from hating you is to stop hating minorities.
The way to stop the far-right from hating you is (if you're a minority) not to exist.
So even though I hate the shit they do, I'm somewhat more sympathetic to antifa.
[QUOTE=ImUnstoppable;52158378]Combating right wing, genocidal authoritarian ideologies isn't the same thing as wanting to establish a right wing genocidal authoritarian ideology.
While I'll agree that American ANTIFAs take it too far and attack to many average joe conservative groups instead of actual nazis, the concept of antifascism is not wrong.[/QUOTE]
The concept of antifascism isn't wrong, but your practice of it is if it involves violence against political opponents in a democracy.
If antifa wants to stop being called fascists then they should stop acting like fucking brownshirts so much lol. It doesn't help that most of the people I've met who say they're part of the antifa movement are self professed communists, an ideology that has killed more people then fascism, or ascribe to some form of marxism. Hell the main person arguing in favor of antifa in this thread has a red star and a hammer and sickle as an avatar lol, something that should genuinely be considered as bad as the Nazi swastika.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52158456]No, they were fighting a geopolitical enemy, not specifically targeting everyone who supported the Nazi party, or even the Nazi party itself.[/QUOTE]
Uh, we were fighting a [i]political enemy[/i] as well. It wasn't just a geopolitical war as you try and portray it.
The United States shut down plenty of national socialist and fascist groups here; the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund]German-American Bund[/url] (which wasn't broken up until 1941) under [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Julius_Kuhn]Fritz Kuhn[/url] was shut down (Kuhn was arrested for tax evasion, had his citizenship revoked after being classified as an enemy agent, and was later deported back to Germany), the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Legion_of_America]Silver Legion[/url] (which also wasn't broken up until 1941) under [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dudley_Pelley]William Dudley Pelley[/url] was shut down (Pelley was convicted of sedition and sentenced to 15 years imprisonment, although he only served 8), we investigated Nazis and fascists living here (one of the early functions of HUAC before it existed as HUAC; read about the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee#Dies_Committee_.281938.E2.80.931944.29]Dies Committee[/url]), some members of these parties (not just leaders) we threw in prison or held in internment camps if we thought their cases warranted it, etc. Additionally, you should study what the purpose of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification]denazification was in post-war Germany and Austria[/url]. The British did the same ([url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Regulation_18B]Defense Regulation 18B[/url]); look up how they shut down and went after the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Union_of_Fascists]British Union of Fascists[/url] and [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Mosley]Oswald Mosley[/url] (as well as their supporters), the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_National_Association]English National Association[/url], the Nordic League, etc.
You really shouldn't try to lecture about things you are completely ignorant about. We were fighting a political enemy as much as we were a geopolitical one. At least I [i]hope[/i] this is just ignorance on your part and not a deliberate attempt to whitewash history. Fighting fascists didn't make us just as bad as them during the Second World War lol. Not really sure why we should bother listening to you at all on this topic since you clearly haven't got any credentials over anybody else to be discussing it.
And both the German-American Bund and Silver Legion were active up until the government cracked down on them. It wasn't until it was decided that something needed to be done about them that they were stopped, during the war. Fuck, the German-American Bund held a rally in Madison Square Garden that drew more than 22,000 people in 1939:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gU9op16rjQ[/media]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;52160782]Hell the main person arguing in favor of antifa in this thread has a red star and a hammer and sickle as an avatar lol, something that should genuinely be considered as bad as the Nazi swastika.[/QUOTE]
this is your brain on liberalism.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Kiwi))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Guriosity;52158561]
What I am saying crazy is crazy. Violent Right wing nut job, Violent left wing nut job. What the difference?[/QUOTE]
Um, their ideologies?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52160712]Dont make unsubstanciated inplications. Him being a Stasi was clearly irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
Lol, clearly irrelevant. There is a reason it is a called a "surviving" archive.
Nothing you said even discounts that, just makes it less likely, but the guy obviously did the attack pre-meditated.
If anything, you help suggest the West German police as a whole were involved, which is just hilarious. More like they probably tried to cover their own asses after a shitshow.
[editline]28th April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=1239the;52160033]Neo-nazis/alt-righters and antifascists are basically fighting a localized culture war.
The far-right announces it'll show up somewhere, antifa shows up there, and shit goes to hell.
Antifa announces it'll show up somewhere, the far-right shows up there, and shit goes to hell.
Even though I hate both, I remember someone elucidating the differences between them:
The way to stop antifa from hating you is to stop hating minorities.
The way to stop the far-right from hating you is (if you're a minority) not to exist.
So even though I hate the shit they do, I'm somewhat more sympathetic to antifa.[/QUOTE]
Please list a situation where Antifa ever organized and had their event shutdown by Far Right activists going violent.
Just any would work. I will very much enjoy knowing when this had happened.
Also, I wouldn't get too cozy with Antifa. They usually hate liberals and think that they are pussies who don't go far enough.
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3owNYyUEAEeEV2.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=nulls;52161199]this is your brain on liberalism.[/QUOTE]
What does this even mean?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52161277]What does this even mean?[/QUOTE]
it means equating the hammer and sickle (communism) to the swastika (national socialism) is fucking retarded.
[QUOTE=nulls;52161285]it means equating the hammer and sickle (communism) to the swastika (national socialism) is fucking retarded.[/QUOTE]
I don't know. Considering that millions were enslaved in gulags, forcibly starved to death, or executed by regimes that regularly touted the hammer and sickle or red star, I think it's a fair comparison.
I'd much rather be a liberal than happily praise an ideology that runs on genocide and autocracy
[QUOTE=Tudd;52161256]
Also, I wouldn't get too cozy with Antifa. They usually hate liberals and think that they are pussies who don't go far enough.
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3owNYyUEAEeEV2.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
Your not actually using a picture of some graffiti as evidence are you? I mean what would life be like if the human race was represented by what some edgy 14 year old had written on a wall
-merge
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52161290]I don't know. Considering that millions were enslaved in gulags, forcibly starved to death, or executed by regimes that regularly touted the hammer and sickle or red star, I think it's a fair comparison.
I'd much rather be a liberal than happily praise an ideology that runs on genocide and autocracy[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=nulls;52157911]Accelerationism is a necessity.[/QUOTE]
Unless his posts have all been cunning sarcasm, you might be wasting your breath here.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52161290]I don't know. Considering that millions were enslaved in gulags, forcibly starved to death, or executed by regimes that regularly touted the hammer and sickle or red star, I think it's a fair comparison.
I'd much rather be a liberal than happily praise an ideology that runs on genocide and autocracy[/QUOTE]
Still comparing apples and oranges in terms of what the ideology behind the symbol stands for. don't go all horseshoe theory on us.
Communism = empowering the working class to wither away the state
National Socialism = empowering the state via racial heirarchy.
USSR was little more than an authoritarian dictatorship with a communist paint job. They basically turned against communist ideals and gave all power to the state.
[QUOTE=Crooky14;52161296]Your not actually using a picture of some graffiti as evidence are you? I mean what would life be like if the human race was represented by what some edgy 14 year old had written on a wall[/QUOTE]
Considering Antifa already uniforms themselves like a bunch of edgy 14 year olds, are you even surprised?
Though I recommend you go frequent the usual Antifa discussion boards and just see what they have to say about liberals themselves.
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/search?q=liberals&restrict_sr=on[/url]
[QUOTE=Tudd;52161331]Considering Antifa already uniforms themselves like a bunch of edgy 14 year olds, are you even surprised?
Though I recommend you go frequent the usual Antifa discussion boards and just see what they have to say about liberals themselves.
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/search?q=liberals&restrict_sr=on[/url][/QUOTE]
Probably not different to what I would find on /pol
[QUOTE=Govna;52160843]Uh, we were fighting a [I]political enemy[/I] as well. It wasn't just a geopolitical war as you try and portray it.
The United States shut down plenty of national socialist and fascist groups here; the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund"]German-American Bund[/URL] under [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Julius_Kuhn"]Fritz Kuhn[/URL] was shut down (Kuhn was arrested for tax evasion, had his citizenship revoked after being classified as an enemy agent, and was later deported back to Germany), the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Legion_of_America"]Silver Legion[/URL] under [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dudley_Pelley"]William Dudley Pelley[/URL] was shut down (Pelley was convicted of sedition and sentenced to 15 years imprisonment, although he only served 8), we investigated Nazis and fascists living here (one of the early functions of HUAC before it existed as HUAC; read about the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee#Dies_Committee_.281938.E2.80.931944.29"]Dies Committee[/URL]), some members of these parties (not just leaders) we threw in prison or held in internment camps if we thought their cases warranted it, etc. Additionally, you should study what the purpose of [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification"]denazification was in post-war Germany and Austria[/URL]. The British did the same ([URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Regulation_18B"]Defense Regulation 18B[/URL]); look up how they shut down and went after the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Union_of_Fascists"]British Union of Fascists[/URL] and [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Mosley"]Oswald Mosley[/URL] (as well as their supporters), the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_National_Association"]English National Association[/URL], the Nordic League, etc.
You really shouldn't try to lecture about things you are completely ignorant about. We were fighting a political enemy as much as we were a geopolitical one. At least I [I]hope[/I] this is just ignorance on your part and not a deliberate attempt to whitewash history. Fighting fascists didn't make us just as bad as them during the Second World War lol. Not really sure why we should bother listening to you at all on this topic since you clearly haven't got any credentials over anybody else to be discussing it.[/QUOTE]We also imprisoned significant portions of the Japanese-American population out of fear they might be spies during World War 2, and we also shut down communist organizations during the Cold War out of fear they were spies. The shutdown of the communist organizations carried more political relevance than shutting down fascist groups. Notice how both you linked were defunct in 1941 during the middle of the Second World War. Further the HUAC was a notably fascist organization in its function, as it was specifically about stopping "subversive" organizations within the country, but as your link to the Dies Committee specifically points out it allowed the KKK to go investigated until the 1960s because it was an "American Institution".
You act like they gave a shit about it because of the specific facets of their political ideology and not because they worried their association made them security risks.
Or is being Japanese a harmful political ideology now?
[QUOTE=Crooky14;52161355]Probably not different to what I would find on /pol[/QUOTE]
Yah, luckily /pol/ is mostly an ironic cesspool.
Gotta love that call to arm themselves better on that subbreddit [url=https://archive.is/7V0lO]though[/url].
[QUOTE=nulls;52161326]Still comparing apples and oranges in terms of what the ideology behind the symbol stands for. don't go all horseshoe theory on us.
Communism = empowering the working class to wither away the state
National Socialism = empowering the state via racial heirarchy.
USSR was little more than an authoritarian dictatorship with a communist paint job. They basically turned against communist ideals and gave all power to the state.[/QUOTE]
after the revolution, how would your communist utopia deal with the millions of people who would prefer having a state?
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