Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 'Loses Contact' - Polidicks

''Staying optimistic!'' ''They probably didn't die'' Why is it because you guys think IMMEDIATLY of death? The worse? I think they slept through something or idk. Radio broke. or they are somewhere where nobody knows them and don't know what to do.

Unless the plane landed somewhere, there is a VERY VERY strong chance most of not all the passengers are dead being realistic here, we all saw the stats on water landings.

[QUOTE=Rozelsky;44204529]''Staying optimistic!'' ''They probably didn't die'' Why is it because you guys think IMMEDIATLY of death? The worse? I think they slept through something or idk. Radio broke. or they are somewhere where nobody knows them and don't know what to do.[/QUOTE] It's been days. They're either dead or hijacked.

[QUOTE=OvB;44204508]Does anyone know the possible range on this particular flight?[/QUOTE] around 5000-6000 miles I think

[QUOTE=Rozelsky;44204529]''Staying optimistic!'' ''They probably didn't die'' Why is it because you guys think IMMEDIATLY of death? The worse? I think they slept through something or idk. Radio broke. or they are somewhere where nobody knows them and don't know what to do.[/QUOTE] Because when a plane goes missing for 4 days it's hard to thing optimistic. It's easier to prepare yourself for the worst and be surprised if they are alive, then to believe they are alive and be crushed when they are not.

If it [I]was[/I] hijacked, then there'd have been more data to go off of than "it just disappeared" Disabling the transponder? Doesn't cause it to disappear off of radar, it just means now its not transmitting its ID. It either crashed and then disappeared, or broke apart in flight. Even if it [I]had[/I] broken apart in flight though, surely the transponder would still be operational? Its not like it fucking disintegrated. Hijacking? What motive? Who would have anything to gain from that? The forged passport dudes were seeking asylum in Germany and I think Denmark, and have no apparent terrorism ties, so they're out. [I]nobody[/I] credible has owned up to it, which you'd think they would have if it was a terrorist attack. Bomb? To accomplish [I]what[/I] exactly? Nobody notable was on that plane, it wasn't over any notable areas, it had no notable cargo, it was just a jet liner. If that picture up top is accurate though, then perhaps it suffered a massive fault of some kind and they attempted to turn around and head back, but the fault caused the failure of their navigation so they guestimated the heading to take to get back to the airport. The same fault could have attributed to the lack of communication of any kind that would show a problem. But you'd think they would try [I]something[/I] to contact [I]anyone[/I] for help instead of just disappearing.

you make so many assumptions

IF the phones are ringing they can find where it is, but Chinese and Malaysian governments aren't doing shit Something weird is going on. Phones do not send a ring-back if they are destroyed

it was definitely not hijacked.

[QUOTE=Glitchman;44204624]IF the phones are ringing they can find where it is, but Chinese and Malaysian governments aren't doing shit Something weird is going on. Phones do not send a ring-back if they are destroyed[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/204wth/eli5_regarding_the_current_event_surrounding_the/[/url]

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;44204591] Bomb? To accomplish [I]what[/I] exactly? Nobody notable was on that plane, it wasn't over any notable areas, it had no notable cargo, it was just a jet liner.[/QUOTE] yes as we all know terrorists are very rational people who are extremely picky with who they explode

[QUOTE=Matrix374;44201611]Dude is it in Malay? If so give me some of that crazy shit[/QUOTE] There ya go. Oddly this guy knew about the plane going off course and all the way into the Malacca Strait before the news even reported it. [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cTHd-FMgwz83yHs4dZhw-Qh33NmrLZz-IIgrLnfcA9I/edit?usp=sharing"]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cTHd-FMgwz83yHs4dZhw-Qh33NmrLZz-IIgrLnfcA9I/edit?usp=sharing [/URL]

[QUOTE=adam1172;44204733]There ya go. Oddly this guy knew about the plane going off course and all the way into the Malacca Strait before the news even reported it. [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cTHd-FMgwz83yHs4dZhw-Qh33NmrLZz-IIgrLnfcA9I/edit?usp=sharing"]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cTHd-FMgwz83yHs4dZhw-Qh33NmrLZz-IIgrLnfcA9I/edit?usp=sharing [/URL][/QUOTE] Has that been translated?

[QUOTE=Ataso;44204780]Has that been translated?[/QUOTE] Im translating it right now. Will post it up later.

[QUOTE=adam1172;44204813]Im translating it right now. Will post it up later.[/QUOTE] nice one. If the sender really did know about the incident before any news outlets (and there is proof of this) you should consider reporting that message to the authorities.

[QUOTE=adam1172;44204733]There ya go. Oddly this guy knew about the plane going off course and all the way into the Malacca Strait before the news even reported it. [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cTHd-FMgwz83yHs4dZhw-Qh33NmrLZz-IIgrLnfcA9I/edit?usp=sharing"]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cTHd-FMgwz83yHs4dZhw-Qh33NmrLZz-IIgrLnfcA9I/edit?usp=sharing [/URL][/QUOTE] But how do you know that, simply because they claim it? Looks like more unconfirmed conspiracy bullshit to me.

[QUOTE=Rozelsky;44204529]''Staying optimistic!'' ''They probably didn't die'' Why is it because you guys think IMMEDIATLY of death? The worse? I think they slept through something or idk. Radio broke. or they are somewhere where nobody knows them and don't know what to do.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding? Slept through something, what???

[QUOTE=be;44205001]Are you kidding? Slept through something, what???[/QUOTE] Either people refuse to admit to themselves that an aircraft full of human beings has been lost with all souls onboard, or they have serious dissolution's about the survival rate of a ditching over open water.

[QUOTE=runtime;44205181]Either people refuse to admit to themselves that an aircraft full of human beings has been lost with all souls onboard, or they have serious dissolution's about the survival rate of a ditching over open water.[/QUOTE] I'm just curious as to why haven't we found out yet.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;44205221]I'm just curious as to why haven't we found out yet.[/QUOTE] so is everyone. i think we can all agree that if the plane is found with survivors it will be some of the best news we've heard in a long time, but realistically it really doesn't look likely. and anyone saying "you guys don't have to be so pessimistic, there's a chance they might still be alive" is just being naive.

[QUOTE=Conspirator;44204980]But how do you know that, simply because they claim it? Looks like more unconfirmed conspiracy bullshit to me.[/QUOTE] It pretty much is just some conspiracy bullshit. And its about how a Russian spy hijacked the plane, an American fighter jet tried to shoot it down but they somehow talked out of it and magically a goddamn G9 summit took part to stop WW3. Also I've added the English translation to the bottom of the document page. Just scroll down until you've passed the Malay section.

[QUOTE=Rozelsky;44204529]''Staying optimistic!'' ''They probably didn't die'' Why is it because you guys think IMMEDIATLY of death? The worse? I think they slept through something or idk. Radio broke. or they are somewhere where nobody knows them and don't know what to do.[/QUOTE] Because most air crashes end in death? Especially ones where the aircraft hasn't even been found a few days in.

[QUOTE=Ataso;44203660]Literally at the end of the article [url]http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=14749[/url][/QUOTE] that article claims that you'd require software capable of robust simulations and talks about not being able to take over with 'an app'. I think they're either assuming (or just blanketing) things to assure people that it's not 'easy' to just hack a plane, and probably to tell the dumb knee-jerk reacting public that the dude with the ipad a few seats over isn't some terrorist hacker

[QUOTE=dai;44205569]that article claims that you'd require software capable of robust simulations and talks about not being able to take over with 'an app'. I think they're either assuming (or just blanketing) things to assure people that it's not 'easy' to just hack a plane, and probably to tell the dumb knee-jerk reacting public that the dude with the ipad a few seats over isn't some terrorist hacker[/QUOTE] There really isn't much fact in the theory of 'hacking' a modern day airliner. If it's the article I recall (not in a position to check right now) the hack is performed by modifying the aircraft flight management computer on-the-fly. If you confuse the FMC, you confuse every other automated system in the cockpit - and also some of the unautomated ones, too - [I]if they are taking data from the FMC[/I]. Understand that this hack [I]could[/I] be counteracted by the flight crew disengaging the autopilot - the FMC provides data to the autopilot systems, but it is not responsible for them - so if the autopilot began descending when it should be ascending (for example) the crew could easily disengage the autopilot and hand-fly it. They could even cut the FMC out altogether - there are several data sources with the FMC being the main and most used one, but an aircraft could safely navigate and continue a flight if it were to fail. However the main point is the FMC, like GPS radios and gyros, provide data to the aircraft systems. They do not control them. Data flows through the FMC to the autopilot but does not directly control it. And the autopilot can [i]always[/i] be disengaged. Aircraft manufacturers made sure of that, most notably Airbus - which is incredibly anal and will not do anything you tell it to do unless you prepare the operation extensively with physical, hand-operated dials beforehand. Fun fact (unfortunately I can't provide a source or method of confirming this but trust me - it does happen!) FMCs crash quite often. At least on Airbus aircraft. The FMC that the Airbus A380 is based on is the same FMC that was introduced in the A319 in the late 80s, except it's been upgraded a bit. Much of the code base is the same. FMCs are responsible for planning routes between waypoints, fuel/engine management, navigational radio settings amongst other things. Unfortunately, software revisions of many Airbus FMCs have a habit of "loosing" the planned route and restraints along that route. This isn't to say the aircraft would plummet to the ground if this happened - the autopilot is clever enough to realize when a drastic route change has occurred and it will simply set "wings level, maintain altitude and speed" whilst the cockpit systems alert the crew. But anyway, an FMC fails - the crew have to reinitialize it and in the case above reenter the whole route (or recall it from the FMC database). This can take time and it's a real nuisance to flight crews, but it's just the way the FMC in Airbus' are built. I can't speak for Boeing or other manufacturers, and the issue of it crashing may now even be fixed, but the last I heard (1-2 years ago) A319/A320 FMCs still had the fault. Back to the supposed 'hack' - if it was the FMC-targeting hack detailed at a DEFCON talk then the attacker would need a direct route of attack to the FMC. The FMC isn't wifi-enabled and if a wifi network on the aircraft is misconfigured badly enough to allow any sort of interface with the FMC somebody should loose their job.. This guy sums up pretty well what an FMC/FMS is and why it can't be attacked as easily as people may think: [URL]http://www.askthepilot.com/hijacking-via-android/[/URL]

[QUOTE=dai;44205569]that article claims that you'd require software capable of robust simulations and talks about not being able to take over with 'an app'. I think they're either assuming (or just blanketing) things to assure people that it's not 'easy' to just hack a plane, and probably to tell the dumb knee-jerk reacting public that the dude with the ipad a few seats over isn't some terrorist hacker[/QUOTE] If you believe someone can hack into a plane FMS system using an android phone/iPad and take control and disable any auto-pilot overrides; Either you know nothing about how security works, or you have been watching to many crummy movies. Edit: thank you runtime for giving a non condescending response

[QUOTE=Ataso;44205754]If you believe someone can hack into a plane FMS system using an android phone/iPad and take control and disable any auto-pilot overrides; Either you know nothing about how security works, or you have been watching to many crummy movies.[/QUOTE] we're talking about the dumb terrorism-fearing general public here, we as a society are fed movies where complex bombs are activated by pushing a button on your watch. If you don't tell people "shut it about the iphone thing it's not happening" there's going to be someone who throws a stupid tantrum trying to tell security that X person is a terrorist because they fit a generic profile and were doing something they couldn't understand on a small device

[QUOTE=Ataso;44205754]If you believe someone can hack into a plane FMS system using an android phone/iPad and take control and disable any auto-pilot overrides; Either you know nothing about how security works, or you have been watching to many crummy movies.[/QUOTE] A lot of media hype happened when the theory was published. I don't blame people for being misinformed - aircraft systems and how they work isn't clear science to everyone. A 'network' on an aircraft does not equal a network as we see it in an office or in our homes. They are networked sure, but not with the 'traditional' protocols and technologies we are familiar to - but some folks may not realize that.

We in this age of technology are being humbled by the inadequacies of our designs and the scale and scope of the sea. Hopefully we learn from this and make the necessary improvements.

[QUOTE=Grimhound;44205866]We in this age of technology are being humbled by the inadequacies of our designs and the scale and scope of the sea. Hopefully we learn from this and make the necessary improvements.[/QUOTE] there's not much to learn from if we don't have any evidence of what happened

[QUOTE=OvB;44204508]The good thing about a hijacking is maybe there's a slim chance that everyone is still alive and they've landed at an undisclosed runway somewhere. Does anyone know the possible range on this particular flight? [editline]11th March 2014[/editline] However you can't exactly land a 777 at a small unkempt runway so who know at this time.[/QUOTE] The Aircraft itself is/was a 777-200ER which has a max range of 7,700 nautical miles (14,300 km), and needs a minimum of 5,100ft of runway to land. Also, even if they skipped fueling up before takeoff from their last flight (Beijing to Kuala Lumpur /~2400NM route) on the 6th of March, they still would have had approximately 4,500NM (+/- 500NM) left in fuel from their last radar contact in the Malacca Strait. So my theory is what if the aircraft suffered a huge electrical failure that was somehow caused by maintenance performed(or not performed) on the aircraft between 6MAR and 8MAR before take-off? Everything including transmitters, GPS, and fuel control valves were affected. Out of panic and loss of navigation (high stress environment), the pilots decide to try and head back the way they came from (depending on how familiar with the route they were). And due to the loss of any navigation, they slipped further North from their intended airfield that could support an aircraft that size. It was daylight so I can imagine the pilots flew a little lower to find any ground features to get their bearing, but during the decent the change of temperature ruptured a feed line that was no longer supported by the now non-existing power which kept the line from freezing. From there the fuel was cut off, and the only thing the aircraft could do was glide over the landmass in hopes of finding a safe area to ditch. If the last radar contact was in the middle of the Malacca Strait, and the aircraft still had quite a bit of altitude for the radar to pick up, then I can see the aircraft placed ~150NM NW of its last contact. Otherwise if it flew in any other direction, another radar whether it be a civilian air radar, or a military early warning radar would have probably picked it up. And even if the pilots did want to turn around after a possible fuel failure, then they would've lost precious airspeed and altitude, which honestly would be a reason for the pilots to continue on a steady path before crash landing.