Israeli troops fire on Palestinian protesters along Syria, Gaza, and Lebanon borders - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Devodiere;29898799]Aw, aren't you cute. I don't even know what you are arguing, it's just a flurry or moral outrage and exaggeration. You aren't even trying to make a point either, are you? [editline]18th May 2011[/editline] There are ramifications for both options and to not consider them and just look at the immediate is not very rational.[/QUOTE] They gunned down over a dozen unarmed people, that's not an exaggeration. I know you Israeli apologists like seeing that stuff, but all things considered, it's probably not a good idea to just shoot a shitload of people, no matter who the hell you are.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;29899552]but they got shot either way???[/quote] if the protests were peaceful, then no, they would not have gotten shot. [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;29899552]lol now you're talking out of your ass. you started off justifying the use of force against an escalated protest but now you're painting it as a premeditated quasi-terrorist attack designed, apparently, to not work just enough to only result in civilian casualties[/QUOTE] lol [editline]18th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899561]A: Protesters come with weapons, improvised or otherwise, then shoot immediately?[/quote] obviously. the intention to injure or kill is right there infront of them. no way this could be considered a peaceful protest. [QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899561]B: Protesters come unarmed, then wait to shoot if they seem 'hostile'?[/QUOTE] they either have the resources to deal with an unarmed protest or they wait until the last min before the protesters have a chance to injure or kill a soldier.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;29899551]in a mass crowd like these protests, you don't need weapons to be injured or killed. hell just being trampled on or beaten by unarmed people is more than enough to be severely injured or be killed.[/QUOTE] If simply looking like they might run up to the soldiers is enough to tell "intent to injure/kill", then literally anything goes. [B]They threw rocks and broke through a fence. If this is enough to convince you they'll try to kill and maim the soldiers, then there can be almost no distinction between a protest and 'violent riot' other than the palestinians/syrians/lebanese just standing behind the fence with blank expressions on their faces.[/B]

[QUOTE=DogGunn;29899572] lol[/QUOTE] maybe i should have suffixed it with a "THIS IS WHAT DOGGUN ACTUALLY BELIEVES"

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899599]If simply looking like they might run up to the soldiers is enough to tell "intent to injure/kill", then literally anything goes. [B]They threw rocks and broke through a fence. If this is enough to convince you they'll try to kill and maim the soldiers, then there can be almost no distinction between a protest and 'violent riot' other than the palestinians/syrians/lebanese just standing behind the fence with blank expressions on their faces.[/B][/QUOTE] put it this way: if the protesters had overrun an area where soldiers were stationed or patrolling, would they have taken the weapons and let the soldiers go back to their families? based on previous riots, the answer is no.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;29899572]they either have the resources to deal with an unarmed protest or they wait until the last min before the protesters have a chance to injure or kill a soldier.[/QUOTE] I would agree if there was actually some indication that the protesters even [I]tried [/I]to beat up or otherwise injure the soldiers, otherwise it's just speculation. Simply 'feeling' like you might be injured isn't a reason to shoot into a crowd.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;29899620]maybe i should have suffixed it with a "THIS IS WHAT DOGGUN ACTUALLY BELIEVES"[/QUOTE] lol

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899475]If even one innocent civilian is killed by sweeping, indiscriminate fire it is abhorable. It does not matter how many it was.[/QUOTE] It was deliberate so both of your adjectives are wrong. And to only kill a few in a crowd of hundreds shows restraint that you don't seem to think they have. The use of lethal force was only in the most professional way so you can't fault them for that. [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;29899478]this predicates on the assumption that it would have gotten "out of control" which itself predicates on a not-so-kindly worldview of the vast unwashed masses who maybehaps need to be controlled for their own good of course you see[/QUOTE] Big riot at the border, throwing rocks, shooting guns, hundreds of people strong, nah she'll be right. You aren't making a point about my attitude towards the people, just pointing out your own inability to understand circumstances.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;29899628]put it this way: if the protesters had overrun an area where soldiers were stationed or patrolling, would they have taken the weapons and let the soldiers go back to their families? based on previous riots, the answer is no.[/QUOTE] Uh, so now they're overrunning a military base unarmed, taking all the weapons and shooting the soldiers? Thinking they might get injured is one thing, but now you're saying if given the chance they'd have just taken the base and executed the soldiers?

DogGunn must not understand that Israel has abused Palestine since its inception, this isn't an isolated incident of Israel "defending borders".

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899631]I would agree if there was actually some indication that the protesters even [I]tried [/I]to beat up or otherwise injure the soldiers[/QUOTE] there was.

[QUOTE=amute;29899562]They gunned down over a dozen unarmed people, that's not an exaggeration. I know you Israeli apologists like seeing that stuff, but all things considered, it's probably not a good idea to just shoot a shitload of people, no matter who the hell you are.[/QUOTE] Black and white, murderer and victim, Israeli apologist and crusader of the truth. You are not a debater, you just want to feel righteous in your opinions.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899652]Uh, so now they're overrunning a military base unarmed, taking all the weapons and shooting the soldiers? Thinking they might get injured is one thing, but now you're saying if given the chance they'd have just taken the base and executed the soldiers?[/QUOTE] wow. i knew it was possible to misinterpret that post - but you just took it to a whole new level. amazing.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;29899635]Big riot at the border, throwing rocks, shooting guns, hundreds of people strong, nah she'll be right.[/QUOTE] These people were unarmed, unless you mean the soldiers shooting guns.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;29899658]DogGunn must not understand that Israel has abused Palestine since its inception, this isn't an isolated incident of Israel "defending borders".[/QUOTE] funny, because i never stated they were defending their border.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;29899660]there was.[/QUOTE] They threw rocks and broke through a fence. Wasn't there a picture of the base in question here?

[QUOTE=Devodiere;29899665]Black and white, murderer and victim, Israeli apologist and crusader of the truth. You are not a debater, you just want to feel righteous in your opinions.[/QUOTE] whoa there is some real substance in this post

[QUOTE=DogGunn;29899669]wow. i knew it was possible to misinterpret that post - but you just took it to a whole new level. amazing.[/QUOTE] I apologize if I misunderstood. Please explain.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899674]These people were unarmed, unless you mean the soldiers shooting guns.[/QUOTE] Can someone else back this up because could of sworn someone said they were shooting guns? Doesn't really change it though, riots don't need firearms to be dangerous. Mob mentality and the size of the group probably wouldn't have gone away because they all got bored.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899692]They threw rocks and broke through a fence. Wasn't there a picture of the base in question here?[/QUOTE] this is suggesting that the protesters would've let the soldiers be if they had overrun the base. [QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899705]I apologize if I misunderstood. Please explain.[/QUOTE] all i said was, would they have let the soldiers go home if they had overrun them? i never said they'd be executed.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;29899722]Can someone else back this up because could of sworn someone said they were shooting guns?[/QUOTE] It doesn't mention it anywhere in the article, and unless you can find the post saying this and back it up I have no reason to believe it. Why would they throw rocks if they had guns? [editline]17th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=DogGunn;29899739]all i said was, would they have let the soldiers go home if they had overrun them? i never said they'd be executed.[/QUOTE] Okay, are you saying they'd have overrun the base if the soldiers hadn't shot them?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899756]Okay, are you saying they'd have overrun the base if the soldiers hadn't shot them?[/QUOTE] they'd shown the intention to overrun property. they'd broken through the fence.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;29899695]whoa there is some real substance in this post[/QUOTE] There is no substance in amute's posts, why should there be in anything that responds? Should I point out everything that is wrong with them and then receive the exact same reply just mixed up a bit?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899756]It doesn't mention it anywhere in the article, and unless you can find the post saying this and back it up I have no reason to believe it. Why would they throw rocks if they had guns?[/QUOTE] because if they shot at the soldiers the soldiers would have shot back, so they chose a less effective means of attack: [QUOTE=DogGunn;29899459]if they brought obvious weapons, such as guns or sticks, they would've known that the IDF would've put them down quick. that wouldn't have ended well for anyone.[/QUOTE] fortunately the israeli military had an ace up it's sleeve: it shot them anyway :smug:

[QUOTE=DogGunn;29899781]they'd shown the intention to overrun property. they'd broken through the fence.[/QUOTE] They didn't even enter the base beyond breaking through the fence, and I can't honestly assume that every soldier in the base was on the one side the rioters were on, so how exactly would they manage to overrun the entire base?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899756]It doesn't mention it anywhere in the article, and unless you can find the post saying this and back it up I have no reason to believe it. Why would they throw rocks if they had guns?[/QUOTE] Because as soon as they fired guns, you can guarantee a lot more would have died. If they are firing at them they are not rioters, they are a hostile mob and treated as enemy combatants.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;29899790]There is no substance in amute's posts, why should there be in anything that responds?[/QUOTE] why bother responding to it. all of sigmalambda's posts are childish. as are amutes.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;29899819]Because as soon as they fired guns, you can guarantee a lot more would have died. If they are firing at them they are not rioters, they are a hostile mob and treated as enemy combatants.[/QUOTE] I guess it's good that the protesters didn't fire at them (since they had no guns) then, huh? I guess not, considering the soldiers still open fired.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29899811]They didn't even enter the base beyond breaking through the fence, and I can't honestly assume that every soldier in the base was on the one side the rioters were on, so how exactly would they manage to overrun the entire base?[/QUOTE] yes. they didn't enter because the idf fired. i have no doubt that the idf could've handled the situation much better, but i have no doubt it could've been much worse if they didn't do what they did then. and that's much worse for both sides.

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