Riots at Trappes (In France) - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Cone;41543463]i would actually be perfectly fine with men walking around with their dicks out[/QUOTE] And I'd be given an anxiety attack, so let's not have a religion like that. Because I know some of you are probably writing up the bible for that one already.

are balaclavas banned [editline]21st July 2013[/editline] that is really the only question that needs to be asked here

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41536069]It's been banned there for a year. I see no problem with it since burka's fucking demean and dehumanize women.[/QUOTE] Banning people from wearing a piece of clothing surely liberates from the demeaning dehumanization!

If the lady is wearing the burka on her own decision, I see no problem whatsoever. We cannot ban clothing, it's completly absurd.

Nah guys it is a tradition here in France, nothing to worry about :)

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41536087]Skorates, explain to me how forcing females of a specific culture to be covered up from head to toe, no exception, does not dehumanize them.[/QUOTE] 1. It's cultural 2. neither the burka, nor [I]any[/I] head coverings, are actually required by Islam. Most of those who wear them do so entirely of their own free will. Telling a woman that she isn't allowed to make that decision for herself is akin to saying she doesn't know any better, which in and of itself is pretty fucking dehumanizing.

Ok... I think you need some french people to explain you some things ... In france there is more and more racist things against withe people, many arab people are mad against france because of the old war against Algeria, our "ghetto" are like big housse that people pay for nothing, many young one destroy all of that because they are "mad" against the governement and because they have no education, because many parent just make children here to get more monney from the governement, i was an educator in some ghetto about 6 years and it was a really difficult work. To be honnest many of us think that we 're gonna go in a civil war, and if you knowed France you would see that we are a kind nation and we welcome all people from all country, and if we don't allow the burka it's just for safety and to don't have some problem ... If all people walked in the street and hide their face i think you will not feel yourself safe... We have made many things for muslim, at school and in many different business things, people ask for more and more and more... We are not a religious country people shoudl respect that, religion is for yourself not to obligate other people to do what you want and eat what you want, that's all! I've got some muslim friend who are really educated and cool, but becasue of these fucking bastard we got a big change to see the FN as our governement in 2017 , and if they come..; it gonna be a civil war that's all... Ask me some question if you need, i think i can answer at these, more than some people who don't live here! Peace from France!

[quote]The law forbids the wearing of any "ostensible" religious articles by students, but does not cite any item; yet, ministerial instructions appear to target the Islamic veil, the Jewish kippa, and large Christian crosses[/quote] Well, as long as France applies the religious symbol law thing without any bias towards any one religion, I suppose its okay. Their land, their law. Cant deal with it, then leave. @CitizenFR Does the veil ban apply to catholic nuns? According, wikipedia extract above, that should be the case....

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41543435]There's a difference between standing up for religious or cultural heritage, and standing against that heritage in certain areas because it demeans and dehumanizes people. It turns women into faceless objects and keeps them experiencing shame and humiliation on a daily basis when they're just trying to live their lives. Imagine being that person that's stared at and pointed out, every where you go. It's humiliating to the female and they don't deserve that kind of treatment for simply being born in a place with a culture that doesn't value them and hates them.[/QUOTE] Can you 86 with the talking points? Fuck's sake. You're judging the article of clothing from your western point of view. Sure, she may live in what you call western socie - Actually, wait. We live in a global society these days. You have just as much as an obligation to conform to her standards as she has obligation to conform to yours. This isn't your house. As human beings, the whole of the world collectively belongs to each and every one of us. You'd do well to break from your current line of thought on this issue. And even if the article of clothing is objectively seen as being against women in some way -- Things like arranged marriages and overdressing of women are perfectly fine so long as the woman accepts that this as how things are. Note that she should understand that she is not under compulsion to do these things, but if she feels like it is morally correct to do so, then I believe it is her God-given right to conform to these standards. All you're doing is taking rights away from women. You're quite the misguided one. You might have good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with such things. Actually, scratch that. You're taking rights away from the most oppressed and trampled upon minority on the face of the planet. While women may certainly face a harsher lot than men, I believe the individual has the worst lot of all in our world. Let us be who we want to be. The world is a place of vibrant colours, and you would have it be grey and with strict order. I say fuck that.

[QUOTE=Irkalla;41549316]Can you 86 with the talking points? Fuck's sake. You're judging the article of clothing from your point of view. Even if it is against women in some way... Thing like arranged marriages and overdressing of women are perfectly fine so long as the woman accepts this as how things are. Note that she should understand that she is not under compulsion to do these things, but if she feels like it is morally correct to do so, then I believe it is her god given right to do so. All you're doing is taking rights away from women. You're quite the misguided one. You might have good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with such things.[/QUOTE] There might be a few cases where girls from conservative families are forced cover up like that. Then again, I dont think anyone could enforce them and even if they tried, the girls could just go to the authorities on that. [quote]In a case when dress is enforced on a woman, we must support and empower her, just as we would a victim of domestic violence. In the case of the niqab, the women whom I have talked with over the years who choose to cover in this manner are articulate and headstrong and cover, often despite opposition from their families. It is part of their religious journey, an expression of their sense of piety and their relationship with their creator. Their decision has little or nothing to do with sex, fear of men or any of the other stereotypes thrown into this debate.[/quote] [URL="http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/13/joseph.burqa.ban/index.html"]Burqa ban turns a right into a crime[/URL]

[QUOTE=C47;41549340]There might be a few cases where girls from conservative families are forced cover up like that. Then again, I dont think anyone could enforce them and even if they tried, the girls could just go to the authorities on that. [URL="http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/13/joseph.burqa.ban/index.html"]Burqa ban turns a right into a crime[/URL][/QUOTE] That doesn't matter. You're banning an article of clothing endemic to a specific cultural family. If it's not xenophobia, then what is? Target the criminal act and the criminal actor, not his tools. Oh, and it's not like France doesn't have a history of xenophobia. Look at what they did to the gypsies not too long ago.

Furthermore, creating a whole legislation on the banning of burqas seems rather ridiculous and unnecessary [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/world/europe/14burqa.html?_r=0"]since only an approximate of 2,000 women in France use burqas. [/URL] An insignificant amount considering the population of France, which only goes to show that this law is of xenophobic origins Banning face veils is like banning sun films for cars because thugs often use them to not be easily spotted while driving.

[QUOTE=CitizenFR;41548650]Ok... I think you need some french people to explain you some things ... In france there is more and more racist things against withe people, many arab people are mad against france because of the old war against Algeria, our "ghetto" are like big housse that people pay for nothing, many young one destroy all of that because they are "mad" against the governement and because they have no education, because many parent just make children here to get more monney from the governement, i was an educator in some ghetto about 6 years and it was a really difficult work. To be honnest many of us think that we 're gonna go in a civil war, and if you knowed France you would see that we are a kind nation and we welcome all people from all country, and if we don't allow the burka it's just for safety and to don't have some problem ... If all people walked in the street and hide their face i think you will not feel yourself safe... We have made many things for muslim, at school and in many different business things, people ask for more and more and more... We are not a religious country people shoudl respect that, religion is for yourself not to obligate other people to do what you want and eat what you want, that's all! I've got some muslim friend who are really educated and cool, but becasue of these fucking bastard we got a big change to see the FN as our governement in 2017 , and if they come..; it gonna be a civil war that's all... Ask me some question if you need, i think i can answer at these, more than some people who don't live here! Peace from France![/QUOTE] He is right.

[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;41535963]No surprises here, things like this will keep happening because Islam is unfit for western society.[/QUOTE] What's unfit for western society is denying people the right to express themselves through clothing choice. It's absolutely not ok for someone to tell another what they are and aren't allowed to wear. It's [i]worse[/i] when the government does it.

although i hate the burka itself and am disgusted by islams attitudes towards women (but all abrahamic religions share these attitudes) that's no excuse for banning their religious garbs. it's obvious it's not about any sense of security it's about pure xenophobia, why else do these burka laws go hand in hand with attempts to ban minarets?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;41551453]What's unfit for western society is denying people the right to express themselves through clothing choice. [/QUOTE] On one hand I agree, on the other I'm not sure whether burquas are a [I]choice[/I] for muslim women

if it's not a choice then banning them is only going to get women who have been forced by their husbands/families to wear it in trouble. and if it is a choice then it's the banning that is being forceful

france is a terrible place and i want to leave asap

You know what the funny thing is? The Burka isn't required in Islam. In fact, the Prophet Muhammed [I]told[/I] Muslims that a woman who covered her entire face was not preferred, as he said "You should be able to tell who you are talking to". I find it absolutely ridiculous that these Muslims are making such a big deal: Hijab is required in Islam, the Burka isn't. They're just being difficult. [editline]22nd July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;41551636]although i hate the burka itself and am disgusted by islams attitudes towards women (but all abrahamic religions share these attitudes) that's no excuse for banning their religious garbs. it's obvious it's not about any sense of security it's about pure xenophobia, why else do these burka laws go hand in hand with attempts to ban minarets?[/QUOTE] It's more cultural than religious, which is what's irritating. Hijab is religious, Burka isn't. Fully covering yourself from head-to-toe is not a requirement in Islam. Having your face showing is allowed. This is just some relic from the past that Muslims are - for some reason - confusing as being a must in their religion, which is bogus.

[QUOTE=Moupi;41551851]france is a terrible place and i want to leave asap[/QUOTE] France is cool yo. It's just full of idiots. -Idiots who will fote FN (fascist party) because of that kind of incident. Thinking all foreigns are douches who set cars on fire for stupid reasons and steal the bread of their children. -Idiots coming in France to force people to apply to their religion/beliefs and then go butthurt when they get rejected for that. Thinking all French people are fascists who vote FN.

[QUOTE=Moupi;41551851]france is a terrible place and i want to leave asap[/QUOTE] What are you talking about ? It is not a terrible place at all.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41551658]On one hand I agree, on the other I'm not sure whether burquas are a [I]choice[/I] for muslim women[/QUOTE] Choice or not, wearing burquas shouldn't be forbidden by some ambiguous law pretending to be about security reasons. If they want to protect the rights of muslim women, they can provide help for these women but that's it, no need for this stupid law.

The Burka ban isn't as big a deal as it should be. If France were banning hijabs, then I'd understand why people are getting up in arms, but the fact the Muslim community is getting so angry over something that isn't even Sunnah (religiously required) is beyond stupid.

[QUOTE=loopoo;41551899]You know what the funny thing is? The Burka isn't required in Islam. In fact, the Prophet Muhammed [I]told[/I] Muslims that a woman who covered her entire face was not preferred, as he said "You should be able to tell who you are talking to". I find it absolutely ridiculous that these Muslims are making such a big deal: [B]Hijab is required in Islam[/B], the Burka isn't. They're just being difficult. [editline]22nd July 2013[/editline] It's more cultural than religious, which is what's irritating. Hijab is religious, Burka isn't. Fully covering yourself from head-to-toe is not a requirement in Islam. Having your face showing is allowed. This is just some relic from the past that Muslims are - for some reason - confusing as being a must in their religion, which is bogus.[/QUOTE] Actually, technically speaking, veiling isn't even required by Islam. Veiling is an act of showing one's honorableness by covering from others, hell, in some subcultures within islam, even men veil in front of other men or women as a sign of respect to them. The thing is that since it's a question of honor, it is culturally enforced in muslim countries, but in a lot of them the Hijab (the most basic form of veiling, which is literally just a small veil around the head and wrapped around the neck much like a scarf) is good enough for the purpose. I'm particularly intrigued by this topic of veiling since I recently did a study on the case on one of my classes and a lot of the perceptions on veiling are off by a lot. In this book called "Veiled Sentiments" by Lila Abu-Lughod, she describes the life of a muslim nomad tribe in egypt and she gives a fairly detailed description on the system of veiling, where she describes many cases where women didn't veil at all (mostly old women) because they deemed themselves honorable enough or that they were no longer "selling or buying" (interested in relationships etc..).

Buddy, Hijab is Sunnah in Islam. It's required.

[QUOTE=C47;41549288]Well, as long as France applies the religious symbol law thing without any bias towards any one religion, I suppose its okay. Their land, their law. Cant deal with it, then leave. @CitizenFR Does the veil ban apply to catholic nuns? According, wikipedia extract above, that should be the case....[/QUOTE] Nuns don't hide their face, instead of the burka wich hide it ^^" (and we don't got many nuns in france, i think really less than muslim people) [editline]22nd July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=StoneRabbit;41551913]France is cool yo. It's just full of idiots. -Idiots who will fote FN (fascist party) because of that kind of incident. Thinking all foreigns are douches who set cars on fire for stupid reasons and steal the bread of their children. -Idiots coming in France to force people to apply to their religion/beliefs and then go butthurt when they get rejected for that. Thinking all French people are fascists who vote FN.[/QUOTE] If the FN come in 2017 it will be the fault of the fucking asshole who disrespect our country... I am not racist, my grand father was a resistant, my family come from sicilia, and my best friend is Kabil, but i hate people who force me to believe in their religion, and i hate people who have nothing better to do than to make people racist against us because they burn their car for nothing! FUCK IDIOT! If the FN come! I go out from my country and that's all !

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41551658]On one hand I agree, on the other I'm not sure whether burquas are a [I]choice[/I] for muslim women[/QUOTE] It is technically their [I]choice[/I], it's just a choice influenced by their cultural background. Much like the reason most women in the west always wear make up when they go outside, not actively enforced, but you could say that in a way it is culturally enforced on them.

For those of you arguing that people should be able to wear anything anywhere, why don't you put on a balaclava, walk into a gas station and see what happens?

[QUOTE=V12US;41552139]For those of you arguing that people should be able to wear anything anywhere, why don't you put on a balaclava, walk into a gas station and see what happens?[/QUOTE] does this mean that balaclavas should be banned though

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41551658]On one hand I agree, on the other I'm not sure whether burquas are a [I]choice[/I] for muslim women[/QUOTE] More women do it voluntarily than the very rare and exaggerated cases you hear of being forced too.