Why People Who Hate Drugs Should Want to End the Drug War - Polidicks

[QUOTE=.FLAP.JACK.DAN.;39318823]I'm okay with legalizing all drugs, but some drugs should be illegal to sell though ie meth, heroin, crack, ect.[/QUOTE] That doesn't solve the dangers with those drugs though. It just shifts the entirety of the black market onto the hard stuff instead of marijuana and the like. Regulation and education would do more good than prohibition.

I want to end the war on drugs so my friends stop getting jailed.

so when the drug war ends will I be able to apply for veteran benefits

[QUOTE=JustExtreme;39318977]But a lot of the dangers of even those substances are only there due to the black market, as I've mentioned already.[/QUOTE] Still having them on the market legally would make more users wouldn't it?

[QUOTE=laserguided;39318801]Then it isn't 100% legal if they force people into rehab?[/QUOTE] lol now I agree with him all drugs are decriminalized in Portugal not legalized which people often think is the same thing. So you still get in trouble for dealing there and its still a black market. "The new law maintained the status of illegality for using or possessing any drug for personal use without authorization. However, the offense was changed from a criminal one, with prison a possible punishment, to an administrative one if the amount possessed was no more than ten days' supply of that substance."

[QUOTE=.FLAP.JACK.DAN.;39319882]Still having them on the market legally would make more users wouldn't it?[/QUOTE] Maybe or maybe not. Either way the users would likely be comparatively far safer overall. They would be more likely to use the substances properly if they could easily acquire clean paraphenalia and unadultered product of known strength for a reasonable price. This I believe would result in less deaths, less contamination related problems, and less accidental overdoses, and other associated problems. More users doesn't necessarily equal a bad thing. More problem users certainly equals a bad thing but just less users doesn't tell you anything. The current rhetoric used by many to defend prohibition implies lowering numbers of drug use to be a positive thing when actually it's inconclusive unless context is given. It is perfectly possible to use "hard" drugs such as heroin, cocaine, etc. in a responsible way with little negative effects even if maintaining an addiction (and many do now!) just as it is possible to misuse them and be irresponsible with them. Current policies and approaches fail to recognise this and instead declare every decline in use as a sign of success. It is possible to have a positive relationship with many demonised and taboo activities but we only hear about the bad things because the media needs sob stories to sell and wants to keep it's advertisers, which often include those threatened by a legalised regulated recreational drug industry such as big booze, big pharma, and big tobacco. Despite lower number of users not really being a good measure of success: The Netherlands has lower usage of cannabis than other countries yet it is tolerated there and sold in coffee shops. Decriminalisation in Portugal has lowered overall usage. Any idea how they actually count users for surveys? Do they just ask them or does it tend to be from hospital admissions? Problematic use is what needs to be lowered, not use overall. Ideally this should be done through an educational and regulatory approach based in tolerance.

If we keep the war on drugs going, it'll give me a job that I want...

^ keep jailing the junkies, this man needs a job

ignore the title... im not an actual cop [sp]yet[/sp]

[QUOTE=laserguided;39317652]Heroin, cocaine and other hard as fuck drugs that you can actually get addicted too and fuck up your body have no place inside of a human.[/QUOTE] cocaine isn't much worse than tobacco. and iirc less harmful to the body. and heroin, while certainly an incredibly addictive substance, isn't nearly as much of a public health problem as alcohol in the usa. [editline]22nd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=.FLAP.JACK.DAN.;39318823]I'm okay with legalizing all drugs, but some drugs should be illegal to sell though ie meth, heroin, crack, ect.[/QUOTE] so it is your business what other people do with their own bodies?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39320460]cocaine isn't much worse than tobacco. and iirc less harmful to the body. and heroin, while certainly an incredibly addictive substance, isn't nearly as much of a public health problem as alcohol in the usa. [/QUOTE] Cocaine can kill the "pleasure" (sense of being high) cells in the brain

[QUOTE=areolop;39320618]Cocaine can kill the "pleasure" (sense of being high) cells in the brain[/QUOTE] would you consider that worse than lung cancer, heart attack, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, and emphysema?

[quote=Wikipedia]Occasional cocaine use does not typically lead to severe or even minor physical or social problems.[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/13/bad-science-cocaine-study][1][/url][url=http://www.tdpf.org.uk/WHOleaked.pdf][2][/url][url=http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/cohen.cocaine.html#RTFToC19][3][/url][/quote]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39320682]would you consider that worse than lung cancer, heart attack, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, and emphysema?[/QUOTE] I'd say cocaine and many other drugs will fuck you up in different ways than cigarettes. Yeah, cigarettes are bad, but it's mainly long-term effects. Drug addictions can fuck up your sleep cycle immensely, and in general just fool around with your body. I don't personally smoke, and I really think people shouldn't, but advocating drugs on that basis is hardly smart. And of course heroin is not much of a problem compared to smoking - it's not something 20% of the population do on a daily basis. [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=TehWhale;39320885][/QUOTE] You generally won't get problems smoking a cigarette once or twice a week, either. It's when it becomes an addiction it's a problem.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39320966]I'd say cocaine and many other drugs will fuck you up in different ways than cigarettes. Yeah, cigarettes are bad, but it's mainly long-term effects. Drug addictions can fuck up your sleep cycle immensely, and in general just fool around with your body. I don't personally smoke, and I really think people shouldn't, but advocating drugs on that basis is hardly smart. And of course heroin is not much of a problem compared to smoking - it's not something 20% of the population do on a daily basis. [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] You generally won't get problems smoking a cigarette once or twice a week, either. It's when it becomes an addiction it's a problem.[/QUOTE] i'm not advocating drug use, i'm advocating legalization of drugs. people should be allowed the right to their own body.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39321129]i'm not advocating drug use, i'm advocating legalization of drugs. people should be allowed the right to their own body.[/QUOTE] I can agree on that drug use shouldn't be punished as hard as it is right now (or simply decriminalized, whatever it'd take to get people to call the ambulance if something goes wrong), but you're not gonna get me in the boat for legalization of hard drugs. Marijuana, sure, legalize it in a restricted form (like in the Netherlands), but cocaine, heroin, amphetamine, etc. should stay illegal simply because many inexperienced people could get in contact with it. Without knowing dosage, concentration or whatever, it can be [I]very[/I] dangerous. There's a reason why you need a prescription in order to get many sorts of medicine. And again there's the case of addiction - drug use isn't necessarily harming when it's occasional, but addiction is.

Even if you want to stop people from doing drugs entirely, as a society, a prohibition is not the way to go about it when I can make meth in a 2L bottle whilst walking around a shopping mall. The only way we'll ever see drug use rates drop is by legalizing or decriminalizing, creating world class rehab programs that aren't this AA or NA, because of how fucking useless those programs are, and creating a strong education program. Half the people who post about how bad drugs are don't have a whole lot of honest knowledge of drugs. This is a big problem in my eyes because having real education about the effects of drugs will change a lot of minds and solve some problems as well as create the proper background of support and sympathy. [editline]22nd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321295]I can agree on that drug use shouldn't be punished as hard as it is right now (or simply decriminalized, whatever it'd take to get people to call the ambulance if something goes wrong), but you're not gonna get me in the boat for legalization of hard drugs. Marijuana, sure, legalize it in a restricted form (like in the Netherlands), but cocaine, heroin, amphetamine, etc. should stay illegal simply because many inexperienced people could get in contact with it. Without knowing dosage, concentration or whatever, it can be [I]very[/I] dangerous. There's a reason why you need a prescription in order to get many sorts of medicine. And again there's the case of addiction - drug use isn't necessarily harming when it's occasional, but addiction is.[/QUOTE] Alcohol is inarguably worse than heroin. Alcohol addiction is one of the roughest forms of addiction. Alcohol abuse is one of the most severe forms of bodily abuse from drugs I can think of(meth/crack being worse but only just). Alcohol is cheap, easy to get, and easy to take and many people don't know the correct dosages. Heroin is a very dangerous drug, and you're right, it shouldn't be just given out. But legalization carries with it responsibilities to educate and create rehab programs. Not just give a free slate to buy horrible drugs that destroy your body.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321295]I can agree on that drug use shouldn't be punished as hard as it is right now (or simply decriminalized, whatever it'd take to get people to call the ambulance if something goes wrong), but you're not gonna get me in the boat for legalization of hard drugs. Marijuana, sure, legalize it in a restricted form (like in the Netherlands), but cocaine, heroin, amphetamine, etc. should stay illegal simply because many inexperienced people could get in contact with it. Without knowing dosage, concentration or whatever, it can be [I]very[/I] dangerous. There's a reason why you need a prescription in order to get many sorts of medicine. And again there's the case of addiction - drug use isn't necessarily harming when it's occasional, but addiction is.[/QUOTE] but people can also overdose on alcohol. i'v been around a lot of drug users in my time(meth, heroin, cocaine, all those hard drugs), and i'v only ever seen people overdose on alcohol. you can overdose on otc medication as well(nyquil and tylenol are most common i believe). there are very present dangers with drugs, but ultimately it should be the responsibility of the individual to make that decision on their own(when they are of legal age of course). it's the responsibility of the government to simply educate and provide rehabilitation for people, as well as set standards for the manufacture of drugs(meth and cocaine would be a lot safer if strict standards were met on purity of the drugs).

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321295]I can agree on that drug use shouldn't be punished as hard as it is right now (or simply decriminalized, whatever it'd take to get people to call the ambulance if something goes wrong), but you're not gonna get me in the boat for legalization of hard drugs. Marijuana, sure, legalize it in a restricted form (like in the Netherlands), but cocaine, heroin, amphetamine, etc. should stay illegal simply because many inexperienced people could get in contact with it. Without knowing dosage, concentration or whatever, it can be [I]very[/I] dangerous. There's a reason why you need a prescription in order to get many sorts of medicine. And again there's the case of addiction - drug use isn't necessarily harming when it's occasional, but addiction is.[/QUOTE] many inexperienced people get in contact with it anyway. If it was legal people would know the dosage and concentration making it less dangerous.

What a lot of people don't understand is that a fair share of the health risks and risks in general of drugs are due to their prohibition. Pure Cocaine, in moderation, is not more damaging than a night of drinking. The problem lies in which there's cocaine and other drugs cut with terrible shit. When "shake-n-bake" meth is only 25% purity, all that. It's kind of how "krokodil" or desomorphine is like any other opioid when pure, but when unpure it causes necrosis and other issues.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321331] Alcohol is inarguably worse than heroin. Alcohol addiction is one of the roughest forms of addiction. Alcohol abuse is one of the most severe forms of bodily abuse from drugs I can think of(meth/crack being worse but only just). Alcohol is cheap, easy to get, and easy to take and many people don't know the correct dosages. Heroin is a very dangerous drug, and you're right, it shouldn't be just given out. But legalization carries with it responsibilities to educate and create rehab programs. Not just give a free slate to buy horrible drugs that destroy your body.[/QUOTE] I have an alcohol addict in my near family, I'm aware of that it's not great. I'm all for information about a subject, rehabilitation programs and so on, but legalization I can't agree with. The only way this kind of drug should be taken (if at all) is under the authority of a doctor.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321436]I have an alcohol addict in my near family, I'm aware of that it's not great. I'm all for information about a subject, rehabilitation programs and so on, but legalization I can't agree with. The only way this kind of drug should be taken (if at all) is under the authority of a doctor.[/QUOTE] Why? My parents are ex alcohol addicts, i'm an ex heroin addict. They're in worse shape than I am from their addiction. I can't agree with keeping them illegal. More people will die, more people will be addicted, and more people will be afraid to get help from anyone. Criminalzing this ONLY makes it worse for the people who do it, not better, and it doesn't lessen the amount of people that do it, if america is anything to go by, it increases the amount of people doing those drugs by massive amounts.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321436]I have an alcohol addict in my near family, I'm aware of that it's not great. I'm all for information about a subject, rehabilitation programs and so on, but legalization I can't agree with. The only way this kind of drug should be taken (if at all) is under the authority of a doctor.[/QUOTE] and keeping it illegal ensures this? I don't think so a lot of people can get those drugs in highschool before they can even get alcohol easily.

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39321491]and keeping it illegal ensures this? I don't think so a lot of people can get those drugs in highschool before they can even get alcohol easily.[/QUOTE] Yes. It's vastly easier as a high school student to buy any illegal drug than alcohol. No dealer gives a rats ass you're 16 and want heroin, your money is as good as the 30 year old. You legalize this shit and NO kid can get their hands on it. You legalize these drugs to make them safer. It's a stupid fear based reaction to ban things.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321454]Why? My parents are ex alcohol addicts, i'm an ex heroin addict. They're in worse shape than I am from their addiction. I can't agree with keeping them illegal. More people will die, more people will be addicted, and more people will be afraid to get help from anyone. Criminalzing this ONLY makes it worse for the people who do it, not better, and it doesn't lessen the amount of people that do it, if america is anything to go by, it increases the amount of people doing those drugs by massive amounts.[/QUOTE] I don't won't addicts wound up in prison - that's stupid. Decriminalize it, but take out the sellers. Set up rehab projects and so on. But let's hypothetically say that it was legalized, how should the market be managed?

exactly I could buy drugs during class in highschool, convenience at its finest :v:

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39321491]and keeping it illegal ensures this? I don't think so a lot of people can get those drugs in highschool before they can even get alcohol easily.[/QUOTE] In Denmark it's the other way around. I don't I know anybody who has done anything more than marijuana, but the legal buying age (note that you can drink at any age) is 16 years for <14% and 18 for >14%. It's only the store that gets in trouble as well, you haven't done anything wrong if you buy.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321516]I don't won't addicts wound up in prison - that's stupid. Decriminalize it, but take out the sellers. Set up rehab projects and so on. But let's hypothetically say that it was legalized, how should the market be managed?[/QUOTE] Thats something that a highly trained group of proffesionals would have to work out, its not worth our time to speculate how the market would be manage as we don't have the facts or studies at our disposal.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321516]I don't won't addicts wound up in prison - that's stupid. Decriminalize it, but take out the sellers. Set up rehab projects and so on. But let's hypothetically say that it was legalized, how should the market be managed?[/QUOTE] How is alcohol handled? Pretty damn well. Just model it off of that. If you think keeping it decriminalized or illegal is helpful, I have some sad news for you. Decriminalizing is okay, it's not good, but it's okay. It puts substances in limbo where they're illegal to make(but they're still being made) and illegal to sell(but they're still being bought) and legal to do(where you're still doing poor quality drugs and getting quite sick for it.) If it's illegal flat out, kids like myself at a young age can get access to wide markets of illegal drugs because people will sell those to anyone, where as alcohol has an age limit and a certified seller. I see no reason why legalizing and keeping the same set of rules for drugs wouldn't work.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321557]In Denmark it's the other way around. I don't I know anybody who has done anything more than marijuana, but the legal buying age (note that you can drink at any age) is 16 years for <14% and 18 for >14%. It's only the store that gets in trouble as well, you haven't done anything wrong if you buy.[/QUOTE] I know people in denmark who have done more than marijuana and I've never even been there lol your argument is pretty invalid /b/rother I summon thee [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] you can drink at any age where I live as well and my dad would buy me alcohol since I was 15, you have to be 18 to buy but a lot of people just had fake Id's at 16 anyway