Why People Who Hate Drugs Should Want to End the Drug War - Polidicks

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321516]I don't won't addicts wound up in prison - that's stupid. Decriminalize it, but take out the sellers. Set up rehab projects and so on. But let's hypothetically say that it was legalized, how should the market be managed?[/QUOTE] i would say similar(but more strict) than the alcohol market. there should be incredibly strict regulations put in place to ensure certain drug qualities, and taxes should be placed to put money into rehabilitation and education programs. sale should only be permitted in licensed shops that are regularly(but randomly) inspected to ensure no sales to minors is allowed. there should be warning labels on any drugs sold, along with a nice little pamphlet that outlines the dangers of the drug both long and short term.

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39321558]Thats something that a highly trained group of proffesionals would have to work out, its not worth our time to speculate how the market would be manage as we don't have the facts or studies at our disposal.[/QUOTE] You're saying a legalization would be preferable, and I can see how the ideal outcome would be. Trouble is, outcomes are seldom ideal. Should this be sold in stores or what?

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321606]You're saying a legalization would be preferable, and I can see how the ideal outcome would be. Trouble is, outcomes are seldom ideal. Should this be sold in stores or what?[/QUOTE] Yes, why not? What are you afraid of in legalization? i ask this not mockingly, but seriously, I'm curious

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321606]You're saying a legalization would be preferable, and I can see how the ideal outcome would be. Trouble is, outcomes are seldom ideal. Should this be sold in stores or what?[/QUOTE] sure, behind a counter without any advertising.

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39321572]I know people in denmark who have done more than marijuana and I've never even been there lol your argument is pretty invalid /b/rother I summon thee [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] you can drink at any age where I live as well and my dad would buy me alcohol since I was 15, you have to be 18 to buy but a lot of people just had fake Id's at 16 anyway[/QUOTE] I know /b/rother, and honestly I don't care for him. You really think a guy frequenting DD is the most normal person in Denmark? His social circle is probably widely different from mine, and I don't see how his argument would in any way invalidate mine.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321606]You're saying a legalization would be preferable, and I can see how the ideal outcome would be. Trouble is, outcomes are seldom ideal. Should this be sold in stores or what?[/QUOTE] Well I would think you would have special stores and maybe you have to get a drug buying licence in which you have to be educated and pass a test about the drugs you wish to buy. But once again we aren't highly trained proffesionals so there is no point in speculating but i can guarantee it would be harder to make it worse than it is now. [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321635]I know /b/rother, and honestly I don't care for him. You really think a guy frequenting DD is the most normal person in Denmark? His social circle is probably widely different from mine, and I don't see how his argument would in any way invalidate mine.[/QUOTE] it invalidates yours by showing how saying "noone I know does this" doesn't mean shit Everyone I know who went to denmark on holiday said they got really awesome speed

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321613]Yes, why not? What are you afraid of in legalization? i ask this not mockingly, but seriously, I'm curious[/QUOTE] Because stores are shit at regulating anything. No matter how much information you put out, some people will do it wrong. Yes, you can go down while drinking alcohol, but many people drink beer or stuff like that, and it takes a good while. Drugs, on the other hand, are in effect almost immediately depending on the manner of consumption. If you take a larger dose than you can handle, you're going down without any prior signs. I personally just believe people wouldn't be able to handle it, and if any kind of legalization should be introduced, a doctor should be making the prescription not some dude in the corner kiosk.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39321586]i would say similar(but more strict) than the alcohol market. there should be incredibly strict regulations put in place to ensure certain drug qualities, and taxes should be placed to put money into rehabilitation and education programs. sale should only be permitted in licensed shops that are regularly(but randomly) inspected to ensure no sales to minors is allowed. there should be warning labels on any drugs sold, along with a nice little pamphlet that outlines the dangers of the drug both long and short term.[/QUOTE] This would be great, use the taxes from selling the drugs to help the few who get addicted etc and hope it won't be a burden on the economy. Less money being spent on sending 16 year olds to court so a judge can slap them on the wrist and send them away to get high again would probably mean that the money saved could then be used to help fight violent crime instead

[QUOTE=laserguided;39317652]Heroin, cocaine and other hard as fuck drugs that you can actually get addicted too and fuck up your body have no place inside of a human.[/QUOTE] okay let's ban alcohol and caffeine too actually, while we're on the subject of addiction and what is natural for the human body, why don't we just fucking ban everything. where the hell do you draw the line on something like that? this is unnatural. this is natural. this can be addictive. this can't be addictive. it's all a load of socially constructed shit

bro you skull spirits you feel effects immediately and go down so fast There are plenty of signs someones going down on almost every drug, especially the well known ones you don't really know what you are talking about. [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321706]Because stores are shit at regulating anything. No matter how much information you put out, some people will do it wrong. Yes, you can go down while drinking alcohol, but many people drink beer or stuff like that, and it takes a good while. Drugs, on the other hand, are in effect almost immediately depending on the manner of consumption. If you take a larger dose than you can handle, you're going down without any prior signs. I personally just believe people wouldn't be able to handle it, and if any kind of legalization should be introduced, a doctor should be making the prescription not some dude in the corner kiosk.[/QUOTE] also a lot of drugs aren't in effect almost immediately, theres a reason drugs have a comeup

They would need to make the stuff in stores cheaper than the stuff on the street, so they couldn't really tax it. The amount of addicts on the street who can't afford basics and spend their welfare money on hard drugs is saddening.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321706]Because stores are shit at regulating anything. No matter how much information you put out, some people will do it wrong. Yes, you can go down while drinking alcohol, but many people drink beer or stuff like that, and it takes a good while. Drugs, on the other hand, are in effect almost immediately depending on the manner of consumption. If you take a larger dose than you can handle, you're going down without any prior signs. I personally just believe people wouldn't be able to handle it, and if any kind of legalization should be introduced, a doctor should be making the prescription not some dude in the corner kiosk.[/QUOTE] But as of now, they're not regulated, they're just everywhere for ANYONE to get a hold of. They can get a hold of any amount of almost any drug they want to, and they can just do it and get addicted or die, and nothing can help them now. If they're regulated like alcohol(Which is regulated very well due to the incredibly serious fines for selling to minors or breaking any of the rules of the licences) minors can't get a hold of them, and they're of a better quality for people who do want to do them, a long with having access to rehab facilities now. A doctor isn't really a good person to ask for recreational drugs. [editline]22nd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=laserguided;39321737]They would need to make the stuff in stores cheaper than the stuff on the street, so they couldn't really tax it. The amount of addicts on the street who can't afford basics and spend their welfare money on hard drugs is saddening.[/QUOTE] where do you get that idea from? yes there are people who are on welfare who spend their welfare money on illegal unregulated drugs something they couldn't do nearly as easily if those drugs were regulated. it's not easy to buy alcohol on welfare

[QUOTE=laserguided;39321737]They would need to make the stuff in stores cheaper than the stuff on the street, so they couldn't really tax it. The amount of addicts on the street who can't afford basics and spend their welfare money on hard drugs is saddening.[/QUOTE] actually the inflation with drugs being on the street is ridiculous because of the risk involved so they could tax it and still make them cheaper.

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39321637]Well I would think you would have special stores and maybe you have to get a drug buying licence in which you have to be educated and pass a test about the drugs you wish to buy. But once again we aren't highly trained proffesionals so there is no point in speculating but i can guarantee it would be harder to make it worse than it is now. [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] it invalidates yours by showing how saying "noone I know does this" doesn't mean shit Everyone I know who went to denmark on holiday said they got really awesome speed[/QUOTE] They're probably did, but they're already people in the space. I didn't say noone did at all, I was simply saying that it isn't something I've encountered. And to return to your original post: [QUOTE=Stormcharger;39321491]and keeping it illegal ensures this? I don't think so a lot of people can get those drugs in highschool before they can even get alcohol easily.[/QUOTE] I was simply saying alcohol is much easier to come by here than drugs. It's just not something I've encountered.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321706]Because stores are shit at regulating anything. No matter how much information you put out, some people will do it wrong. Yes, you can go down while drinking alcohol, but many people drink beer or stuff like that, and it takes a good while. Drugs, on the other hand, are in effect almost immediately depending on the manner of consumption. If you take a larger dose than you can handle, you're going down without any prior signs. I personally just believe people wouldn't be able to handle it, and if any kind of legalization should be introduced, a doctor should be making the prescription not some dude in the corner kiosk.[/QUOTE] The overdoses generally happen because of differences in purity, if it was controlled then it'd all be one purity so people would know how much they need. And for first time users you could say the same with alcohol, when me and pretty much everyone else my age were first getting drunk at 14 we'd drink half a bottle of vodka and pretty much be paralyzed but we'd learn from our mistakes any never do that shit ever again. It's hard to overdose on stuff if you have knowledge about what your taking, education about drugs as a whole and not just their bad points combined with removing the taboo of taking drugs might help

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321706]If you take a larger dose than you can handle, you're going down without any prior signs.[/quote] education education education you can go down with immediate effect without prior notice with any drug, especially alcohol. why don't people do this? because they understand the effects and dangers of alcohol fully and because the market is rigorously regulated. if you down a litre bottle of vodka you'll be in hospital or worse. why don't people do it? because they're not dumb. imagine a world where hard drugs are fully understood in a safe way and regulated by government and corporations. it could be exactly the same as alcohol

[QUOTE=laserguided;39317652]Heroin, cocaine and other hard as fuck drugs that you can actually get addicted too and fuck up your body have no place inside of a human.[/QUOTE] I didn't notice this post, but you're wrong. Your body has natural opiate receptors built in. Therefore, you're built to be able to do heroin. Your body doesn't have anything to deal with alcohol. Therefore, alcohol is only a poison we choose to do.

[QUOTE=laserguided;39321737]They would need to make the stuff in stores cheaper than the stuff on the street, so they couldn't really tax it. The amount of addicts on the street who can't afford basics and spend their welfare money on hard drugs is saddening.[/QUOTE] the mass legal manufacture of drugs would surely undercut the black market. black market has huge markups due to logistical problems in both manufacture and distribution(due to risk of capture and alternate methods of delivery). the only thing i could see being hard to undercut would be methamphetamine because of how absolutely piss easy it is to manufacture at home. even then, i doubt people would choose shitty meth over something that is 98% pure made in a factory.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321756]They're probably did, but they're already people in the space. I didn't say noone did at all, I was simply saying that it isn't something I've encountered. And to return to your original post: I was simply saying alcohol is much easier to come by here than drugs. It's just not something I've encountered.[/QUOTE] There? Maybe. Here it is as easy as it gets to get drugs over alcohol for minors.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39321586]i would say similar(but more strict) than the alcohol market. there should be incredibly strict regulations put in place to ensure certain drug qualities, and taxes should be placed to put money into rehabilitation and education programs. sale should only be permitted in licensed shops that are regularly(but randomly) inspected to ensure no sales to minors is allowed. there should be warning labels on any drugs sold, along with a nice little pamphlet that outlines the dangers of the drug both long and short term.[/QUOTE] Involve some kind of license given out by a doctor, and I'll be inclined to say this isn't necessarily a bad idea. People with heart conditions and the like shouldn't be taking drugs, for example.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321769]I didn't notice this post, but you're wrong. Your body has natural opiate receptors built in. [b]Therefore, you're built to do heroin.[/b] Your body doesn't have anything to deal with alcohol. Therefore, alcohol is only a poison we choose to do.[/QUOTE] No man thats bullshit those μ-opioid receptors are used by your brain, heroin just binds to them and makes them work differently.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321792]Involve some kind of license given out by a doctor, and I'll be inclined to say this isn't necessarily a bad idea. People with heart conditions and the like shouldn't be taking drugs, for example.[/QUOTE] but that's their choice...? [editline]22nd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Stormcharger;39321796]No man thats bullshit those μ-opioid receptors are used by your brain, heroin just binds to them and makes them work differently.[/QUOTE] which is a hell of a lot more than you can say for alcohol. your body has receptor sites that function for it. it may be a twisting of the facilities of the body to do so, but it isn't a huge stretch.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321792]Involve some kind of license given out by a doctor, and I'll be inclined to say this isn't necessarily a bad idea. People with heart conditions and the like shouldn't be taking drugs, for example.[/QUOTE] people with liver problems shouldn't drink alcohol or take tylenol. people with lung problems shouldn't smoke cigarettes. we don't need licenses to partake in any of those substances.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321792]Involve some kind of license given out by a doctor, and I'll be inclined to say this isn't necessarily a bad idea. People with heart conditions and the like shouldn't be taking drugs, for example.[/QUOTE] if they're told the risks about doing said drug with a heart condition they should be able to do it imo as long as someone knows the risks they should be able to do something if they want.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;39321768]education education education you can go down with immediate effect without prior notice with any drug, especially alcohol. why don't people do this? because they understand the effects and dangers of alcohol fully and because the market is rigorously regulated. if you down a litre bottle of vodka you'll be in hospital or worse. why don't people do it? because they're not dumb. imagine a world where hard drugs are fully understood in a safe way and regulated by government and corporations. it could be exactly the same as alcohol[/QUOTE] You forget something: People still drink alcohol in quantities not recommendable. Some people may want something extra. Maybe they're drunk and thought it'd be fun to do a little more. Making drugs more accessible isn't a good idea in my opinion, especially when the problem is relatively minor here in Denmark.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321819]You forget something: People still drink alcohol in quantities not recommendable. Some people may want something extra. Maybe they're drunk and thought it'd be fun to do a little more. Making drugs more accessible isn't a good idea in my opinion, especially when the problem is relatively minor here in Denmark.[/QUOTE] Uh If you're out at a club here, get drunk, and want something extra, you go to the alley and buy it. if you want to do that when the substances are legal you can't because there's a law against selling to intoxicated people the problem here is you think legalization is a process to make drugs more available. It's not. That's what making them illegal does.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39321812]people with liver problems shouldn't drink alcohol or take tylenol. people with lung problems shouldn't smoke cigarettes. we don't need licenses to partake in any of those substances.[/QUOTE] Nope, they shouldn't, but I'd inclined to say that it's not as acute as a stroke.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321800]but that's their choice...? [editline]22nd January 2013[/editline] which is a hell of a lot more than you can say for alcohol. your body has receptor sites that function for it. it may be a twisting of the facilities of the body to do so, but it isn't a huge stretch.[/QUOTE] There are receptor sites that function for alcohol in your brain this is literally how every drug causes effects on you

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321832]Uh If you're out at a club here, get drunk, and want something extra, you go to the alley and buy it. if you want to do that when the substances are legal you can't because there's a law against selling to intoxicated people[/QUOTE] What if they just bought some earlier on before they were drunk?

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321819]You forget something: People still drink alcohol in quantities not recommendable. Some people may want something extra. Maybe they're drunk and thought it'd be fun to do a little more. Making drugs more accessible isn't a good idea in my opinion, especially when the problem is relatively minor here in Denmark.[/QUOTE] it actually makes them less accessible because you have to find a licensed retailer and actually ask for the product(who wants to walk up to the clerk and ask for a gram of meth?). what's easier? going to the liquor store and buying a bottle of booze at night, or calling up your friend who already has a bottle and having him bring it to you?