Why People Who Hate Drugs Should Want to End the Drug War - Polidicks

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321846]What if they just bought some earlier on before they were drunk?[/QUOTE] and they can't do that now? I don't see what the difference is.

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39321814]if they're told the risks about doing said drug with a heart condition they should be able to do it imo as long as someone knows the risks they should be able to do something if they want.[/QUOTE] When you're asking the state to regulate, you're not gonna get them to say that. Someone would have to take the responsibility, and experience shows that it's not necessarily placed where it should be.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321875]When you're asking the state to regulate, you're not gonna get them to say that. Someone would have to take the responsibility, and experience shows that it's not necessarily placed where it should be.[/QUOTE] and right now someone with a heart problem can buy any drug they want illegally and kill themselves due to that. I don't see how this is any safer in any way.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321884]and right now someone with a heart problem can buy any drug they want illegally and kill themselves due to that. I don't see how this is any safer in any way.[/QUOTE] and it's even less safe because the person may not know certain drugs are hard on the heart, where a legal purchase would probably involve some form of warning.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321864]and they can't do that now? I don't see what the difference is.[/QUOTE] Nope, there's no difference. And that's why I don't want the state to say "this is okay". You may say I'm idealistic, and I probably am to some extent, but I really don't think it should be that way.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321902]Nope, there's no difference. And that's why I don't want the state to say "this is okay". You may say I'm idealistic, and I probably am to some extent, but I really don't think it should be that way.[/QUOTE] but you're alright with the state saying it's ok to kill yourself with cigarettes and alcohol?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321884]and right now someone with a heart problem can buy any drug they want illegally and kill themselves due to that. I don't see how this is any safer in any way.[/QUOTE] Again, it comes down to whether the state says "this is okay" and "this is not okay". The solution for the state is to inhibit anyone with heart conditions to [I]buy[/I] drugs, and it that way it'd also take the responsibility away from whoever sold them.

Does the state say its ok to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes? I dunno about in denmark but over here we have plenty of goverment run adds telling us to not drink and drive, moderate your alcohol and where to go if you need help quitting cigarettes

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321902]Nope, there's no difference. And that's why I don't want the state to say "this is okay". You may say I'm idealistic, and I probably am to some extent, but I really don't think it should be that way.[/QUOTE] But the state saying "this isn't okay" has had the effect of blowing up drug use rates by several thousand percent over a few decades, at the cost of thousands and thousands of lives through incarceration, overdose, and misinformation. there is a difference actually. The difference is when it's legal, they can get help for it without stigma, fear of jail, fear of rejection, etc, they actually have options that way. with it illegal it's a game over kind of deal. [editline]22nd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321919]Again, it comes down to whether the state says "this is okay" and "this is not okay". The solution for the state is to inhibit anyone with heart conditions to [I]buy[/I] drugs, and it that way it'd also take the responsibility away from whoever sold them.[/QUOTE] but that's way too much work for the state and way too much infringement on the person.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39321915]but you're alright with the state saying it's ok to kill yourself with cigarettes and alcohol?[/QUOTE] You know I can't say "yes" to that question. But what I really think it comes down to is that the people dying from alcohol and cigarettes are old people. They knew what they were doing, and I find it sad that some people continue.

i'd rather the state say "you can do what you like" but instruct us on how to do it safely and regulate it than say "this is bad and you're bad if you're do it" and leave all the people who don't agree with that to rot their own bodies through ignorance or rot in a jail cell

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321965]You know I can't say "yes" to that question. But what I really think it comes down to is that the people dying from alcohol and cigarettes are old people. They knew what they were doing, and I find it sad that some people continue.[/QUOTE] this is wrong just factually wrong many, many young people smoke and die young.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39321965]You know I can't say "yes" to that question. But what I really think it comes down to is that the people dying from alcohol and cigarettes are old people. They knew what they were doing, and I find it sad that some people continue.[/QUOTE] no a lot of young people die due to these drugs as well dude.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39321932] but that's way too much work for the state and way too much infringement on the person.[/QUOTE] I think you forget that we have a massive health care system over here. People will ask their doctor for a license, they'll pass some tests and they're good to go. You could have a national database as well, noting how much a single person has bought through the shops. Would make it easier to spot problems.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39322002]I think you forget that we have a massive health care system over here. People will ask their doctor for a license, they'll pass some tests and they're good to go. You could have a national database as well, noting how much a single person has bought through the shops. Would make it easier to spot problems.[/QUOTE] Doesn't apply to the US.

[QUOTE=laserguided;39317815]I believe marijuana should be legalized and hard drugs such as Heroin and Cocaine not legalized. "They can't get treatment" is bullshit because, needle exchanges and rehab. Its unhealthy both physically and mentally. Addiction to hard drugs is a big problem because legalization would open doors for advertisement and thus getting people stuck in the trap of becoming a addict and wasting away their life.[/QUOTE] We already have open doors for advertisement and the trap of addiction, it's called big pharma, bro.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39322021]Doesn't apply to the US.[/QUOTE] Well, as a Dane I'd say "make it apply". It's great.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39322150]Well, as a Dane I'd say "make it apply". It's great.[/QUOTE] So an overhaul of the already failing healthcare system, a revamp of the national databases for a whole new purpose, and still not quite getting to the real problem.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39322150]Well, as a Dane I'd say "make it apply". It's great.[/QUOTE] Its never going to work. The moment you do something like that 45% of the US cries against government control.

[QUOTE=laserguided;39322190]Its never going to work. The moment you do something like that 45% of the US cries against government control.[/QUOTE] not even that, i doubt it'd be effective, and it would be a huge, huge task to implement. where as legalizing and regulating drugs well, creating rehab and education programs as well as making drugs cleaner and safer by taking them out of the hands of gangs and criminals from production to sale is almost sure to see the rates of drug use fall

[QUOTE=laserguided;39322190]Its never going to work. The moment you do something like that 45% of the US cries against government control.[/QUOTE] I know. But I'm arguing from my viewpoint, and in my opinion, you'd have to require that kind of control to do such a thing. [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39322213]not even that, i doubt it'd be effective, and it would be a huge, huge task to implement. where as legalizing and regulating drugs well, creating rehab and education programs as well as making drugs cleaner and safer by taking them out of the hands of gangs and criminals from production to sale is almost sure to see the rates of drug use fall[/QUOTE] I don't think rates of drug use will fall, but the safety would most probably go up.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39322221]I know. But I'm arguing from my viewpoint, and in my opinion, you'd have to require that kind of control to do such a thing. [editline]23rd January 2013[/editline] I don't think rates of drug use will fall, but the safety would most probably go up.[/QUOTE] places like portugual, where the highest drug use in europe was found in 2001-2002, answered this problem with wide spread decriminalization and the installation of rehab programs. The thing is, it's stupid, in my opinion, to say drug use rates wouldn't fall. What happened in prohibition? alcohol use rose. War on drugs? Drug use rose. What happened at the end of prohibition? Alcohol use and alcohol death rates fell, literally over night. I do not see a vastly different ending for the war on drugs.

This is pretty much a endless debate, you know? Each side of the argument is entrenched and the US government hasn't shown any signs of budging anytime soon.

[QUOTE=laserguided;39322303]This is pretty much a endless debate, you know? Each side of the argument is entrenched and the US government hasn't shown any signs of budging anytime soon.[/QUOTE] it's not really an endless debate though. There are facts. There are histories, and there are sure fire effects of these things that we can see, after a 50 year, trillion dollar war, I think we know what we should do now. the government may not be moving yet, but it will happen or we'll see the private prison industry/lobby ruling congress forever.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39322325]it's not really an endless debate though. There are facts. There are histories, and there are sure fire effects of these things that we can see, after a 50 year, trillion dollar war, I think we know what we should do now. the government may not be moving yet, but it will happen or we'll see the private prison industry/lobby ruling congress forever.[/QUOTE] Not everything applies to every other situation or country. A trial of total 100% legalization would need to be conducted and if it worked than they need to make a decision. Anything else is theory, European society is vastly different from US society. There is nothing else to go on that isn't pure theory or opinion. In the US the right wing party carries 45% of the vote and a majority in congress. Hell, Obama is centre-right and his white house doesn't support marijuana legalization judging from his administrations 'we the people' response.

[QUOTE=laserguided;39322360]Not everything applies to every other situation or country. A trial of total 100% legalization would need to be conducted and if it worked than they need to make a decision. Anything else is theory, European society is vastly different from US society.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about portugual in this instance, more about prohibition in the 30's. We have little reason to believe the outcomes would be very different when most of the symptoms are the exact same.

even if you're against drug use and hardcore drugs on a large scale, i don't see how anyone can't think police time (and therefore tax payers' money) is horribly wasted on the small-scale drugwar you see this so much when you start going to pubs and clubs and you get sniffer dogs coming in just to put someone in the back of a van for having a few Es or a bag of weed on them. who is that benefiting at all?

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;39322400]even if you're against drug use and hardcore drugs on a large scale, i don't see how anyone can't think police time (and therefore tax payers' money) is horribly wasted on the small-scale drugwar you see this so much when you start going to pubs and clubs and you get sniffer dogs coming in just to put someone in the back of a van for having a few Es or a bag of weed on them. who is that benefiting at all?[/QUOTE] Well. Here, society doesn't take kindly to hard drugs but marijuana is accepted as a social norm, the police won't hunt you down for it.

[QUOTE=JustExtreme;39317806]Yeah but it also keeps the supply of the drugs underground therefore many of the dangers attributed to the actual drugs themselves that are actually caused by the black market remain when they could be avoided saving countless lives. Also cartels are able to continue generating revenue from the drugs as the market is effectively gifted to them.[/QUOTE] Legalising it doesn't mean the drugs will be clean, I mean just look at cigarettes and the kind of shit that companies shove in them. Decriminalisation has also proved to lower drug use in countries that went down that route.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;39322467]Legalising it doesn't mean the drugs will be clean, I mean just look at cigarettes and the kind of shit that companies shove in them. Decriminalisation has also proved to lower drug use in countries that went down that route.[/QUOTE] Not every single scenario applies to every other scenario. The population in the US is way to divided and the government has never budged on it beyond state law. This is turning into a endless debate, actually it already is a endless debate. Entrenched views on both sides leads to consistent circles of argument.