[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19127081]You dont seem to understand the amount of information they saved, they saved records of people who lived in Rome, historical documents of such value that without the Muslims we would have no knowledge of these events ever of happening.
You would think a man who could walk on water and supposedly challenged the Roman empire would have been documented, but he wasnt so he didnt exist.[/QUOTE]
But he was documented... In the bible. How many times do I need to explain that it is a legitimate documentation of Jesus?
[QUOTE=David29;19127143]But he was documented... In the bible. How many times do I need to explain that it is a legitimate documentation of Jesus?[/QUOTE]
No it is not a valid historical document, none of the accounts are first hand. The Bible was written to support the ideas of the religion and has quite obviously been changed over the years.
[b]THE BIBLE IS NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING EXCEPT THE CAPABILITIES OF HUMAN IMAGINATION[/b]
[QUOTE=David29;19127143]But he was documented... In the bible. How many times do I need to explain that it is a legitimate documentation of Jesus?[/QUOTE]
So the bible is also a legitimate documentation of a man calling down a divine curse to have 42 children killed with bears?
The word "bible" means collection of books, it only became a single book when the church put them together. Just because some parts of it conflict does not mean all of it is false.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;19127190]The word "bible" means collection of books, it only became a single book when the church put them together. Just because some parts of it conflict does not mean all of it is false.[/QUOTE]
So if I had 20 people write different history books and told half of them to make up stories, you would believe the rest had you not known any of it before?
[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19124942]The Bible is a bunch of stories and tall tales just like those of ancient Rome about the Gods of Olympus, it is no more historical than them as well.
The evidence is in History itself, History has to mentions of a man named jesus besides forged documents by the catholic church and many of the abrahamic religions.
You can do the research on your own but as you dig deeper into history youll see there is no mention of him or any mention at all.
Here is an even better fact, Jesus is frequently referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth" yet Nazareth did not exist at the time Jesus was supposedly born.
This thread is proof of how distorted history has become because of that damned book.[/QUOTE]
I've got a feeling the most history you've studied is your school text book.
[QUOTE=melonmonkey;19127206]So if I had 20 people write different history books and told half of them to make up stories, you would believe the rest had you not known any of it before?[/QUOTE]
I wasn't saying whether the bible was true or false, I was saying that you can't call it all false just because some parts of it are questionable.
[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19127173]No it is not a valid historical document, none of the accounts are first hand. The Bible was written to support the ideas of the religion and has quite obviously been changed over the years.
[b]THE BIBLE IS NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING EXCEPT THE CAPABILITIES OF HUMAN IMAGINATION[/b][/QUOTE]
Then it could be said that 'Mein Kampf' is less historically correct than the bible; the bible, for example, was a collection of a books and so has a greater cross section of testimonies.
Or what about 'The Origin of Species'? Could we say that evolution is false simply becuase one man wrote a book about it?
[QUOTE=Dyson6;19127258]I've got a feeling the most history you've studied is your school text book.[/QUOTE]
If that were the case I wouldnt even be trying to argue.
[QUOTE=David29;19127282]Then it could be said that 'Mein Kampf' is less historically correct than the bible; the bible, for example, was a collection of a books and so has a greater cross section of testimonies.
Or what about 'The Origin of Species'? Could we say that evolution is false simply becuase one man wrote a book about it?[/QUOTE]
Origin of Species is supported by evidence that so far cannot be disproved.
However if you find a way to disprove it Im sure a Nobel Prize is right up your alley.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;19127264]I wasn't saying whether the bible was true or false, I was saying that you can't call it all false just because some parts of it are questionable.[/QUOTE]
Because the existance of jesus isn't questionable at all, right?
[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19127173]No it is not a valid historical document, none of the accounts are first hand. The Bible was written to support the ideas of the religion and has quite obviously been changed over the years.
[b]THE BIBLE IS NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING EXCEPT THE CAPABILITIES OF HUMAN IMAGINATION[/b][/QUOTE]
You realize that those Roman documents that those muslims you put oh so much faith in could have just as easily been changed over the years as well, right? You're being kinda hypocritical here. Well, typical facepunch atheist you are.
[QUOTE=melonmonkey;19127308]Because the existance of jesus isn't questionable at all, right?[/QUOTE]
Of course it's questionable. But you can't say that Jesus de facto didn't exist.
[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19127289]Origin of Species is supported by evidence that so far cannot be disproved.
However if you find a way to disprove it Im sure a Nobel Prize is right up your alley.[/QUOTE]
As much as I would love a Nobel Prize, my aim was to prove a point rather than disprove evolution.
[QUOTE=Drasnus;19126330]We'd have that pagan thing that was about the same except Christians would not have hi-jacked it.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, did you just accuse [b]Christ[/b]ians of hijacking [b]Christ[/b]mas?
[QUOTE=Jenkem;19126527]Muslims have only been around since the A.D. 600s. You act like Muslims have been in the region since before the Romans were, which is simply not true.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah but we were quite the scholars back then and we collected a lot of Roman documents.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;19127332]You realize that those Roman documents that those muslims you put oh so much faith in could have just as easily been changed over the years as well, right? You're being kinda hypocritical here. Well, typical facepunch atheist you are.[/QUOTE]
The original documents are still around and the documents were taken by the Roman Government and the Roman military, they were to document political happenings so I would obviously put more "faith" into trusting these than trusting the writings from the bible.
[QUOTE=Epidemick;19127442]Yeah but we were quite the scholars back then and we collected a lot of Roman documents.[/QUOTE]
my point exactly, the Muslims were scholars interested in math and science.
[QUOTE=KestasLT;19123918]Be polite to Jesus kids
without him, we wouldn't have christmas![/QUOTE]
iirc Christmas is a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. It became Christian later
[QUOTE=Tigster;19127438]I'm sorry, did you just accuse [b]Christ[/b]ians of hijacking [b]Christ[/b]mas?[/QUOTE]
Fun fact: Christmas didn't originate from Christianity, in fact they originally detested it as it was a pagan celebration, why doesn't anyone know this? Oh, and no one knows when/if Jesus was born, and from what I've read the best clues show it isn't even in winter, so yeah.
/me throws a bible at Luuper for typing faster
I knew this shit would turn into a religion debate.
Believe what you believe on and continue that.
I believe Jesus christ was real and all the miracles and everything.
Once you die go figure there is your answer.
[QUOTE=Darkcoder;19127571]Fun fact: Christmas didn't originate from Christianity, in fact they originally detested it as it was a pagan celebration, why doesn't anyone know this? Oh, and no one knows when/if Jesus was born, and from what I've read the best clues show it isn't even in winter, so yeah.
/me throws a bible at Luuper for typing faster[/QUOTE]
eh, didn't know that. ah well, good point.
[QUOTE=fsTyle;19127584]I knew this shit would turn into a religion debate.
Believe what you believe on and continue that.
I believe Jesus christ was real and all the miracles and everything.
Once you die go figure there is your answer.[/QUOTE]
Belief in idiocy is one of mans greatest fallacies. :Dawkins102:
[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19127454]The original documents are still around and the documents were taken by the Roman Government and the Roman military, they were to document political happenings so I would obviously put more "faith" into trusting these than trusting the writings from the bible.
my point exactly, the Muslims were scholars interested in math and science.[/QUOTE]
It isn't hard to get rid of a piece of paper that proves you wrong. Any Muslim who read a document about Jesus Christ could of easily threw it into a fire and be done with it. But apparently they did a bad job considering theres a document that has Jesus with his parent's names written on it. You probably don't believe me, so book a ticket and fly to Rome and look for it in a museum, its right there. Dammit wheres Trotsky, he actually uses that lump of meat in his head when he argues about this stuff.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;19127641]It isn't hard to get rid of a piece of paper that proves you wrong. Any Muslim who read a document about Jesus Christ could of easily threw it into a fire and be done with it. But apparently they did a bad job considering theres a document that has Jesus with his parent's names written on it. You probably don't believe me, so book a ticket and fly to Rome and look for it in a museum, its right there. Dammit wheres Trotsky, he actually uses that lump of meat in his head when he argues about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
Show me pictures of this document, show me evidence that it exists, show me carbon dating done to it, I want evidence not statements saying it exists.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;19127641]It isn't hard to get rid of a piece of paper that proves you wrong. Any Muslim who read a document about Jesus Christ could of easily threw it into a fire and be done with it. But apparently they did a bad job considering theres a document that has Jesus with his parent's names written on it. You probably don't believe me, so book a ticket and fly to Rome and look for it in a museum, its right there. Dammit wheres Trotsky, he actually uses that lump of meat in his head when he argues about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
Could you please tell my why the hell a Muslim would throw away a document about a prophet of their own religion?
[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19127695]Show me pictures of this document, show me evidence that it exists, show me carbon dating done to it, I want evidence not statements saying it exists.[/QUOTE]
Where's your evidence? All you are doing is the exact same thing, stating "facts" without backing it up, how can we take any of your points seriously if all you are doing is flapping your jaw?
[QUOTE=Tigster;19127733]Where's your evidence? All you are doing is the exact same thing, stating "facts" without backing it up, how can we take any of your points seriously if all you are doing is flapping your jaw?[/QUOTE]
All of what I said can be researched and found, its all in Historical documents that have shown to be true.
All I see anyone using in counter arguments is the bible.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;19124248]:golfclap: Well played, sir. Very well played[/QUOTE]
Not rly, stfu.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;19127641]It isn't hard to get rid of a piece of paper that proves you wrong. Any Muslim who read a document about Jesus Christ could of easily threw it into a fire and be done with it. But apparently they did a bad job considering theres a document that has Jesus with his parent's names written on it. You probably don't believe me, so book a ticket and fly to Rome and look for it in a museum, its right there. Dammit wheres Trotsky, he actually uses that lump of meat in his head when he argues about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
I love you.
So there we go, evidence which completely undermines Hunterbrute's argument.
Also, it doesn't take long on google to find some results relating to non-bible evidence. This, for example, is potential evidence for the Romans being aware of Jesus: [url]http://bibleprobe.com/archko.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Lazor;19127717]Could you please tell my why the hell a Muslim would throw away a document about a prophet of their own religion?[/QUOTE]
Er, you do realise that Islam has never recognised Jesus to be a prophet, right?
[QUOTE=David29;19127804]I love you.
So there we go, evidence which completely undermines Hunterbrute's argument.
Also, it doesn't take long on google to find some results relating to non-bible evidence. This, for example, is potential evidence for the Romans being aware of Jesus: [url]http://bibleprobe.com/archko.htm[/url]
Er, you do realise that Islam has never recognised Jesus to be a prophet, right?[/QUOTE]
Well hunter, he's got the best evidence I can find, but you're going to pull some bullshit excuse right out of your ass to try and disprove it with the very statements you won't accept yourself.
Who the christ is Jesus?
[QUOTE=evilweazel;19127876]Well hunter, he's got the best evidence I can find, but you're going to pull some bullshit excuse right out of your ass to try and disprove it with the very statements you won't accept yourself.[/QUOTE]
The website even states this is a matter of faith, the stories and documents all look very biblical. Im going to go out on a limb and say these rank up there with Forgeries by the Church.
Jesus didnt exist and these documents further my argument.
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