Wounded Iraq vet jeered at by students of Columbia - Polidicks

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;28224201]Partially is the key here. I mean honestly, who would jump into a life changing event without knowing the implications of such a thing. Even if I didn't get all that I probably still would have joined.[/QUOTE] a lot of people, actually and that's another great attitude to have, apathy

Disgusting bastards. How can you look at a man in the eye that gave more than just years a service to the armed forces and just fling shit at him Theres a certain respect you give to vets and wounded vets, they may not be in accordance with your views but its a thing of respect nevertheless. I'm going into the ROTC program myself, gonna try for Rangers once I get in

I've never understood the hate towards the idea of having ROTC or military on campus. Military branches (not talking about war, but the organization itself) provides people with core values, it gives people the opportunity to get a WIDE range of skills along with specialized skills. It pays for college, allows you to grow as big as you wish to be. Military teaches discipline, structure and respect. You might not see it with punks that join for shits and giggles but you will see it in people that make a career out of it. It gives certain people a chance they wouldn't other wise have, it gives them qualified training and work experience that can be applied in the private sector. In return giving us experience and qualified people working on the streets. The military does a ton of stuff besides (war) they do peacekeeping operations, they work along side other military. Sometimes other countries will send their people to train at certain bases and work with the U.S military. I try not to get in the whole "patriotic" attitude and mindset saying all vets are good and such. But a majority of service members do sacrifice a lot. While bettering themselves whether you see it or not protecting their country. If we didn't even have the slightest image or perception of a strong military other countries would test us. Law enforcement is somewhat similar to the military when it comes to function, structure, training and overall moral and attitude. Everyone in my agency is like family, you hurt one of us you deal with all of us. I'm sure if you all looked past the political bullshit (it hard I know.) and you just looked at the men and women that serve proudly you would see otherwise. All us service members are people too, they got friends and family. They're like you. Treat them as you wanted to be treated. I know you guys wouldn't like being singled out for your ideology and have a people come at you with a mob mentality.

[QUOTE=Hazard Fox;28224301]Disgusting bastards. How can you look at a man in the eye that gave more than just years a service to the armed forces and just fling shit at him Theres a certain respect you give to vets and wounded vets, they may not be in accordance with your views but its a thing of respect nevertheless. I'm going into the ROTC program myself, gonna try for Rangers once I get in[/QUOTE] this may be just me here, but i respect wisdom and intelligence. not uninformed and brash action.

[QUOTE=Hazard Fox;28224301]Disgusting bastards. How can you look at a man in the eye that gave more than just years a service to the armed forces and just fling shit at him Theres a certain respect you give to vets and wounded vets, they may not be in accordance with your views but its a thing of respect nevertheless. I'm going into the ROTC program myself, gonna try for Rangers once I get in[/QUOTE] Why? You can't just say 'because', that's not an argument.

[QUOTE=MR-X;28224331]I've never understood the hate towards the idea of having ROTC or military on campus. Military branches (not talking about war, but the organization itself) provides people with core values, it gives people the opportunity to get a WIDE range of skills along with specialized skills. It pays for college, allows you to grow as big as you wish to be. Military teaches discipline, structure and respect. You might not see it with punks that join for shits and giggles but you will see it in people that make a career out of it. It gives certain people a chance they wouldn't other wise have, it gives them qualified training and work experience that can be applied in the private sector. In return giving us experience and qualified people working on the streets. The military does a ton of stuff besides (war) they do peacekeeping operations, they work along side other military. Sometimes other countries will send their people to train at certain bases and work with the U.S military. I try not to get in the whole "patriotic" attitude and mindset saying all vets are good and such. But a majority of service members do sacrifice a lot. While bettering themselves whether you see it or not protecting their country. If we didn't even have the slightest image or perception of a strong military other countries would test us. Law enforcement is somewhat similar to the military when it comes to function, structure, training and overall moral and attitude. Everyone in my agency is like family, you hurt one of us you deal with all of us.[/QUOTE] and thus the dilemma presents itself you can't talk about the military without talking about the whole war aspect. That's like talking about Mormonism without talking about all the racism and sexism. And as a side note, maybe that "you hurt one of us you deal with all of us" attitude is what makes it so hard to convict corrupt cops, just sayin'

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28224352]this may be just me here, but i respect wisdom and intelligence. not uninformed and brash action.[/QUOTE] Ill give ya that a lot of kids sign up not fully knowing what they're getting into. Ill tell you though by the time they get out they are some of the most upstanding people I know of. My gunnery sergents and even corproals are filled with wisdom from experiance, and intelligence is gained throuugh these experiances. Besides, you have to be somewhat smart to join the military. Not everyone can just go and work on/fly hueys and cobras.

[QUOTE=MR-X;28224331]I've never understood the hate towards the idea of having ROTC or military on campus. [/QUOTE] Because it goes against the values that institutions of higher learning try to instill in their students. A world view that is complex and open to informed change where the world is not falsely dichotomized in order to keep one's self sane after shooting at your fellow man. It teaches that the individual is not allowed expression within the greater whole, and that the collective should be above all and the individual is relegated to a replaceable part. (In contrast with even communistic societies wherein the individualist expression contributes to, rather than is repressed by the collective whole.) There are other, better ways to learn leadership skills, moral values and discipline that don't involve huge, potentially damaging changes to the way your world works.

[QUOTE=Hazard Fox;28224301]Disgusting bastards. How can you look at a man in the eye that gave more than just years a service to the armed forces and just fling shit at him Theres a certain respect you give to vets and wounded vets, they may not be in accordance with your views but its a thing of respect nevertheless. I'm going into the ROTC program myself, gonna try for Rangers once I get in[/QUOTE] why do they deserve more respect than anyone else? like i said earlier, if a drug dealer gets shot is he automatically a hero worthy of respect?

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;28224437]why do they deserve more respect than anyone else? like i said earlier, if a drug dealer gets shot is he automatically a hero worthy of respect?[/QUOTE] i dunno fiddy has some worthy street cred

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;28224437]why do they deserve more respect than anyone else? like i said earlier, if a drug dealer gets shot is he automatically a hero worthy of respect?[/QUOTE] What about the suicide bomber who tries his hardest (and let's say succeeds) to not kill any civilians, and takes out a couple M1A2 tanks when he goes down. Is this man a hero? He gave his life willingly to a cause he found just, and made sure no innocents (in his eyes) were hurt in the process. Edit: Should Malcom X be more of a hero to people than King, as he was more violent? Does a hero have to reach heaven by the sword?

Armed forces =/= drug business [b]edit:[/b] =/= suicide bombers

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;28224430]Ill give ya that a lot of kids sign up not fully knowing what they're getting into. Ill tell you though by the time they get out they are some of the most upstanding people I know of. My gunnery sergents and even corproals are filled with wisdom from experiance, and intelligence is gained throuugh these experiances. Besides, you have to be somewhat smart to join the military. Not everyone can just go and work on/fly hueys and cobras.[/QUOTE] You've just demonstrated abject apathy about the moral implications of your actions, why should I listen to your opinion about who is and isn't wise? [editline]23rd February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Elecbullet;28224477]Armed forces =/= drug business[/QUOTE] the point is that sacrifice does not a noble person make

ROTC is awesome... even in High School (At least mine) It counted as a Government credit, Physical Education credit, economics credit, Enough proof to be issued a Concealed Carry Permit saying I was in a gun safety course, allows you to join the military as an E-3 Those are some nice benefits, during and out of school, for just a class It doesn't indoctrine anyone into the Military or anything, and even if it did so what... Our Navy's full, and our Active Army is 20,000 over-listed. Not bad for an all volunteer force

[QUOTE=TheTalon;28224527]ROTC is awesome... even in High School (At least mine) It counted as a Government credit, Physical Education credit, economics credit, Enough proof to be issued a Concealed Carry Permit saying I was in a gun safety course, allows you to join the military as an E-3 Those are some nice benefits, during and out of school[/QUOTE] In High School isn't it JROTC? Why would you do (J)ROTC and then not go to OCS or get commissioned?

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;28224551]In High School isn't it JROTC? Why would you do (J)ROTC and then not go to OCS or get commissioned?[/QUOTE] Yeah JRTOC in Highschool. But why would you? If you want a military career then go for it, if you just want a class in high school that actually teaches you shit you'll use in the real world instead of diagramming sentences, then why not take it anyway. even JROTC has teams you can join that go to competitions that even reward scholarships

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;28223992]As for why the military is great from a job standpoint there's nothing more solid. 2 guarenteed paychecks a month, free food, medical, room and board. Free school, free pretty much everything. Ontop of that I get paid to fly and blow shit up. While all this is a bonus for me those reasons are partially why I joined.[/QUOTE] Why didn't you just say this from the beginning instead of making up all that crap earlier

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;28224465] Does a hero have to reach heaven by the sword?[/QUOTE] Thinking that any act of violence is at all good assumes that there are goods and wrongs in the world that make killing justifiable. Nobody is right or wrong in war, there are purely conflicts, no heroes and no villains. It's only once warfare becomes genocide or a means of control that you could even offer any argument of morality in it. Warfare is an action done when two groups reach a disagreement that cannot be resolved with words, not an abstract struggle between right and wrong. Which incidentally, means I agree with you Kagrenak.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28224480]You've just demonstrated abject apathy about the moral implications of your actions, why should I listen to your opinion about who is and isn't wise? [editline]23rd February 2011[/editline] the point is that sacrifice does not a noble person make[/QUOTE] You're just a kid sitting behind a computer who has yet to do anything worth crediting in his life, why should I listen to you're opinion? Quite frankly I don't really give a damn what all of you think, I think its despicable that people would be so inapropriate towards a soldier. None of you have any idea of the shit we go through, so try stepping into his shoes.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;28224607]Yeah JRTOC in Highschool. But why would you? If you want a military career then go for it, if you just want a class in high school that actually teaches you shit you'll use in the real world instead of diagramming sentences, then why not take it anyway. even JROTC has teams you can join that go to competitions that even reward scholarships[/QUOTE] No what I meant is why would you do JROTC and ROTC then just enlist. [editline]22nd February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;28224694]You're just a kid sitting behind a computer who has yet to do anything worth crediting in his life, why should I listen to you're opinion? Quite frankly I don't really give a damn what all of you think, I think its despicable that people would be so inapropriate towards a soldier. None of you have any idea of the shit we go through, so try stepping into his shoes.[/QUOTE] Your argument has completely failed and now you're just resorting to ad hominem attacks and a baseless appeal to emotion.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;28224694] Quite frankly I don't really give a damn what all of you think, I think its despicable that people would be so inapropriate towards a soldier. None of you have any idea of the shit we go through, so try stepping into his shoes.[/QUOTE] They weren't doing anything to him until he started saying stupid shit, being a soldier does not give you license to be a fear-mongering ass.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28224737]They weren't doing anything to him until he started saying stupid shit, being a soldier does not give you license to be a fear-mongering ass.[/QUOTE] You just [i]don't know[/i] and there are just [i]things[/i] that [i]can't be explained[/i] to normal people.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;28224694]You're just a kid sitting behind a computer who has yet to do anything worth crediting in his life, why should I listen to you're opinion? Quite frankly I don't really give a damn what all of you think, I think its despicable that people would be so inapropriate towards a soldier. None of you have any idea of the shit we go through, so try stepping into his shoes.[/QUOTE] Thank you for making my argument for me.

[QUOTE=DanRatherman;28224625]Warfare is an action done when two groups reach a disagreement that cannot be resolved with words, not an abstract struggle between right and wrong. [/QUOTE] At least in the present era, the US seems to be the only country that can't solve disagreements with diplomacy. Nobody else is attacking each other as far as I can tell.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;28224694]You're just a kid sitting behind a computer who has yet to do anything worth crediting in his life, why should I listen to you're opinion? Quite frankly I don't really give a damn what all of you think, I think its despicable that people would be so inapropriate towards a soldier. None of you have any idea of the shit we go through, so try stepping into his shoes.[/QUOTE] You aren't directly involved in a war, you have no right to complain about it or it's practitioners, Haw haw haw.

I honestly don't give a fuck who you are and what you do, if you can't demonstrate even a basic understanding of the repercussions of your actions, then I do not respect you. I don't care how many bullets you've taken or situations you've been in. I'm glad you're alive, but I will not think any higher of you. [editline]23rd February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=DanRatherman;28224808]You aren't directly involved in a war, you have no right to complain about it or it's practitioners, Haw haw haw.[/QUOTE] I'd call it irony, but it would be too obvious.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;28224703]No what I meant is why would you do JROTC and ROTC then just enlist. [editline]22nd February 2011[/editline] Your argument has completely failed and now you're just resorting to ad hominem attacks and a baseless appeal to emotion.[/QUOTE] Congradulations, you all won an argument on the internet! Yay! You get a free year supply of ez lubr and a speed boat! I'm gonna go to sleep now, I'm getting drown tomorrow so ill need all the energy I can get.

I'll think higher of a soldier if they save some kid from gunfire or help rebuild a wartorn country or stuff like that, but that'll be because of their actions not their profession. Being a soldier, on its own, means absolutely jack shit.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;28224861]Congradulations, you all won an argument on the internet! Yay! You get a free year supply of ez lubr and a speed boat! I'm gonna go to sleep now,[B] I'm getting drown tomorrow[/B] so ill need all the energy I can get.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JuSINI3p1gE/S-4vqQtiwHI/AAAAAAAAAC8/0R01Ap-BpDM/s1600/drowning.jpg?iact=hc&vpx=253&vpy=168&dur=1039&hovh=175&hovw=288&tx=226&ty=79&ei=qIhkTa-nOcf1gAeMm8S_Bg&oei=qIhkTa-nOcf1gAeMm8S_Bg&page=1&tbnh=127&tbnw=209&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0[/IMG] bye

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28224830]I honestly don't give a fuck who you are and what you do, if you can't demonstrate even a basic understanding of the repercussions of your actions, then I do not respect you. I don't care how many bullets you've taken or situations you've been in. I'm glad you're alive, but I will not think any higher of you. [/QUOTE] Pretty much this.