[QUOTE=DaysBefore;43632086]Surely it's also for the benefit of the Ukranian people themselves, regardless of how the opposition is acting?
I don't really know beyond the riots and the response though, so don't think I'm passing any kind of judgement[/QUOTE]
Apparently Russia has been bullying the Ukraine into not joining the EU by saying they'll cut off gas supplies and put huge tariffs on Ukrainian goods if they join the EU, so the Ukraine is trapped in a bit of a shit situation.
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10327027/Russia-threatens-Ukraine-with-bankruptcy-over-plans-to-sign-EU-agreement.html[/url]
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;43632496]But you will be eventually![/QUOTE]
Quit it.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;43632443]He's from Lativa. Not everyone is an american.[/QUOTE]
What are you even on about.
Why are you using a heavily biased twitter feed as a "source"? And random pictures of 12 gauge shells and tanks don't mean anything and could have been taken severely out of context.
Put the streams in the OP if you can't find a reputable news source, then people can just see what's happening.
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;43632547]Why are you using a heavily biased twitter feed as a "source"? And random pictures of 12 gauge shells and tanks don't mean anything and could have been taken severely out of context.
Put the streams in the OP if you can't find a reputable news source, then people can just see what's happening.[/QUOTE]
Then what should we base our news on? The government bought media?
I might be dumb, but in the live stream, what are those blue explosions?
Also the other random explosions you hear? What are causing those?
[QUOTE=Stopper;43632574]Then what should we base our news on? The government bought media?[/QUOTE]
International sources such as Reuters or BBC maybe? Not what is basically the protesters twitter feed.
[QUOTE=SexualShark;43630001]two people died. there is a thread on that, in your title says "two people shot dead" and you have tanks. we dont need two threads.[/QUOTE]
Could you be more of a bitch?
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Don't flame the crybaby, tia" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;43632611]International sources such as Reuters or BBC maybe? Not what is basically the protesters twitter feed.[/QUOTE]
I'll take my chances with the protesters' twitter feed until international sources cover it. Sure, they're biased, but they're biased in the right direction.
No-one has even mentioned this
[quote][b][u]EU threatens action against Ukraine over handling of protests[/b][/u]
The European Union threatened on Wednesday to take action against Ukraine over its handling of anti-government protests after three people died during violent clashes in Kiev.
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said the EU was shocked by the deaths, deplored the use of force and called on all sides to immediately halt violence.
"If there is a systematic violation of human rights, including shooting at peaceful demonstrators or serious attacks to the basic freedoms ... then we have to rethink our relationship with Ukraine and possibly (there will be) some consequences," he told reporters, adding that it was too soon to say what the consequences might be.[/quote]
[url=Source]http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/22/uk-ukraine-barroso-idUKBREA0L0U920140122[/url]
[editline]22nd January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Stopper;43632633]I'll take my chances with the protesters' twitter feed until international sources cover it. Sure, they're biased, but they're biased in the right direction.[/QUOTE]
No bias is the "right direction". Bias hides the truth.
What's there to mention? What is anyone supposed to do at this point? The EU's threats are like a candle light in a dark night when put against what's happening in Kiev right now.
[QUOTE=bravehat;43632617]Could you be more of a bitch?[/QUOTE]
What's the point now? She got banned for it because of this thread so she might learn her lesson; and not care about posting news first in the future
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;43632611]International sources such as Reuters or BBC maybe? Not what is basically the protesters twitter feed.[/QUOTE]
the thing is that no international media has such direct access, literally all of it is directly streamed 100% live, no way to bias it or change anything
[QUOTE=Turing;43632721]the thing is that no international media has such direct access, literally all of it is directly streamed 100% live, no way to bias it or change anything[/QUOTE]
That's why I said just put the stream links up? I just said it's stupid to pay attention to what the twitter feed says.
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;43632649]
No bias is the "right direction". Bias hides the truth.[/QUOTE]
How is it not the right direction? They're there, they have cameras onsite, you can see it with your eyes. BBC and Reuters are barely covering this in comparison.
The Protesters seem to have made some sort of wall down the street from the fires.
[QUOTE=VOSK;43632767]The Protesters seem to have made some sort of wall down the street from the fires.[/QUOTE]
They're getting ready for when the police make their next big charge I guess.
[QUOTE=Stopper;43632747]How is it not the right direction? They're there, they have cameras onsite, you can see it with your eyes. BBC and Reuters are barely covering this in comparison.[/QUOTE]
Do you see the feed saying "we are starting our molotov attacks on the police" or "upping our stoning campaign", maybe mention casualties on both sides? No, the feed isn't giving you the whole story, it's selectively representing the situation and is therefore bias and a stupid source to use for such a serious situation. They might be have the best view of the situation, but so do the police? Would you pay attention to their twitter feed?
This reminds me of those French revolutions in Paris where they would turn the city into a fortress with barricades and fight a mini civil war.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43632895]This reminds me of those French revolutions in Paris where they would turn the city into a fortress with barricades and fight a mini civil war.[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;QngGvHTOKh4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOlKBX7BzpI[/video]
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;43632074]
[t]http://sna.in.ua/images/ideja_nacii.jpg[/t]
This is the Patriots of Ukraine logo. Subtle as fuck, isn't it?[/QUOTE]
it's like if Nikon turned into a GI Joe villain syndicate
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;43632821]Do you see the feed saying "we are starting our molotov attacks on the police" or "upping our stoning campaign", maybe mention casualties on both sides? No, the feed isn't giving you the whole story, it's selectively representing the situation and is therefore bias and a stupid source to use for such a serious situation. They might be have the best view of the situation, but so do the police? Would you pay attention to their twitter feed?[/QUOTE]
but you have to understand that this isnt some single person coordinating everything, there are multiple groups ranging from people who want to get rid of a dictator to a straight up nazis
also on the twitter they do show pictures of molotovs being thrown by protesters, and a picture of a berkut man being brutally beaten, it just shows everything happening
theres no "our stoning campaing" or "we are starting molotov attacks" beacuse its not everybody who does that
what is said is "some protestors have started throwing molotov cocktails at the police"
[QUOTE=Turing;43633116]but you have to understand that this isnt some single person coordinating everything, there are multiple groups ranging from people who want to get rid of a dictator to a straight up nazis
also on the twitter they do show pictures of molotovs being thrown by protesters, and a picture of a berkut man being brutally beaten, it just shows everything happening
theres no "our stoning campaing" or "we are starting molotov attacks" beacuse its not everybody who does that
what is said is "some protestors have started throwing molotov cocktails at the police"[/QUOTE]
You only have to read 3 or 4 tweets and see it's tone that it's incredibly biased. They took a picture of the police infront of a burnt bus and said "Berkut posing neat the burned bus after shooting two people on Hrushevskogo this morning. Proud of it"
I still say that rioting is not the way forward, and in the video above which shows the onslaught of Molotov cocktails - the people throwing them deserve to be behind bars.
In the US I'm fairly sure if you threw one of those at a police officer you'd get shot - Understandable that in a protest/riot they'd be leeway but the safety of the officers (trying to keep the peace) and other protestors is important.
If you see how the police could pretty much extinguish them quickly, think every so often you get little scrawny people that can't throw and probably land one on a protestor, that person is probably going to leave with bad burns.
Edit:
The key issue is that neither side (especially the police trying to keep the order) will/can stop what they're doing. The protestors should stop as they have a cause they're trying to follow and there's not chance the police should back down. Because of that escalations like firearms/APCs as bad as they are, are needed for the police's saftey.
Also they key thing that needs to happen is the government needs to back down.
If the protestors were not violent and hurting the police then they wouldn't be been brought in.
[QUOTE=Jonzky;43633239]I still say that rioting is not the way forward, and in the video above which shows the onslaught of Molotov cocktails - the people throwing them deserve to be behind bars.
In the US I'm fairly sure if you threw one of those at a police officer you'd get shot - Understandable that in a protest/riot they'd be leeway but the safety of the officers (trying to keep the peace) and other protestors is important.
If you see how the police could pretty much extinguish them quickly, think every so often you get little scrawny people that can't throw and probably land one on a protestor, that person is probably going to leave with bad burns.[/QUOTE]
Ok, what's the way forward?
I'm fairly sure that once a protest reaches the point where molotovs need to be thrown, it's a whole different ballgame.
That's just stupid speculation.
I honestly would say these riots and demonstrations are completely legitimate.
[QUOTE=Stopper;43633273]Ok, what's the way forward?
I'm fairly sure that once a protest reaches the point where molotovs need to be thrown, it's a whole different ballgame.
That's just stupid speculation.[/QUOTE]
The key thing is the government and opposition needs to meet and try to resolve this at their level.
[QUOTE=Jonzky;43633239]I still say that rioting is not the way forward, and in the video above which shows the onslaught of Molotov cocktails - the people throwing them deserve to be behind bars.
[/QUOTE]
Peaceful protests don't work when you want to change a whole system. The threat of violence is the only way you can get things done in that situation.
[QUOTE=Jonzky;43633327]The key thing is the government and opposition needs to meet and try to resolve this at their level.[/QUOTE]
No offense, but are you dense or just misinformed? I can forgive the former.
Goddamn that Video was scary, setting the officers on fire like that you only see that shit in the movies.
Riots are some really serious shit, why isn't this covered by the media?
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