Tanks are heading to Kyiv: two people shot dead - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pr0fane;43986368] I disagree. The police are fully aware of what is going on. It's impossible they are not. Throughout Ukraine government buildings are being overrun by revolutionists, and the Ukrainian television is talking about this constantly... In no way are the cops mistaking this for a persistant football riot.[/QUOTE] Not everybody is rioting there and the police are standing their ground. Perhaps the people in Ukraine and the police know a little more about the situation than the posters on facepunch.

The whole country is turning to shit [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26271824[/url]

From the other thread: [QUOTE=Noi;43982875] [editline]20th February 2014[/editline] [B]60 people are reported dead to this moment[/B][/QUOTE] We're probably going to need a main thread for this, like the one we had for the Egyptian protests Fixed video: [video=youtube;0DxkDiAcSF8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8[/video]

[img]http://icdn.lenta.ru/images/2014/02/20/23/20140220233617495/pic_7f03b7e664e864cd3251fee436b8051a.jpg[/img] They're making czech hedgehogs. Must be getting ready for more armor.

I think this thread should become the main Ukraine riots thread, as it's been around for a long time and is being used a lot already. Now, threads keep popping up about new stuff all the time(even though that does make sense of course)

[QUOTE=wewt!;43986509]From the other thread: We're probably going to need a main thread for this, like the one we had for the Egyptian protests Fixed video: [video=youtube;0DxkDiAcSF8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8[/video][/QUOTE] this is the main thread

[QUOTE=Turing;43986592]this is the main thread[/QUOTE] You're right yeah, maybe a mod should rename the thread? I'd rather see all the news being aggregated in this thread personally, though it depends on how everybody else feels about that.

Not sure if you can see it (due to it being a video from the dutch news, maybe not viewable from antoher country) but at about 2:50 in [URL="http://www.rtlxl.nl/#!/rtl-nieuws-132237/c74e3bac-2713-4013-addd-70aaf29a25e3"]this video[/URL], you can see the a bunch of berkut which surrendered and taken hostage in a building

[QUOTE=wewt!;43986629]You're right yeah, maybe a mod should rename the thread? I'd rather see all the news being aggregated in this thread personally, though it depends on how everybody else feels about that.[/QUOTE] Might be good to have a news thread and a discussion thread. The news thread should have unbias sources/news/pictures while the discussion thread is where people can say how terrible ____ side is.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43986437]Not everybody is rioting there and the police are standing their ground. Perhaps the people in Ukraine and the police know a little more about the situation than the posters on facepunch.[/QUOTE] I have family there. I know what I'm talking about.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43986686]Might be good to have a news thread and a discussion thread. The news thread should have unbias sources/news/pictures while the discussion thread is where people can say how terrible ____ side is.[/QUOTE] Those two topics never stay segregated, I'd rather just have this thread be the main news aggregate and go with the flow.

[QUOTE=Pr0fane;43986368]Don't suggest the police are 'doing what they believe in'. I'm not buying that for a second. They are following orders because they are afraid of what will happen if they don't. They are therefor allowing the 'tyranny' for lack of a better word to continue.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but if you think that all the Ukrainian people are on the protestor's side and that all the police are only doing what they are told because they are scared, you are seeing things waaaay too black and white still. I've talked to Ukrainians who are very against the revolution, there's two sides to every story. While you may find it fun to put on your guy fawkes mask and play armchair revolutionary, there are people out there dying because they are fighting for something they really believe in and painting it as such a black and white "these guys are right, these guys are wrong" situation is insulting to the people who are actually involved in all this on a personal level.

[QUOTE=wewt!;43986509]From the other thread: We're probably going to need a main thread for this, like the one we had for the Egyptian protests Fixed video: [video=youtube;0DxkDiAcSF8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8[/video][/QUOTE] Fucking hell this is ridiculous. They weren't even armed.

[QUOTE=scratch (nl);43986672]Not sure if you can see it (due to it being a video from the dutch news, maybe not viewable from antoher country) but at about 2:50 in [URL="http://www.rtlxl.nl/#!/rtl-nieuws-132237/c74e3bac-2713-4013-addd-70aaf29a25e3"]this video[/URL], you can see the a bunch of berkut which surrendered and taken hostage in a building[/QUOTE] Wow, I am happy I can speak Dutch, very intresting video.

[QUOTE=Valiantttt;43986743]Wow, I am happy I can speak Dutch, very intresting video.[/QUOTE] And after that they start talking about how shit our train network is... oh well Anyways, [URL="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/72157641226636504/"]flickr album of behind the frontlines [/URL]

[QUOTE=gudman;43986268]Which means nothing, because they're not supposed to. From their point of view, it's just some individuals breaking laws all over the place. It's not "the people", it's individuals who disrupt order, order that police is there to protect and enforce. Berkut has nothing against people, and they do not protect government that is currently in the office. They protect The government. If opposition gets into the office one way or the other, they would count on the very same people for protection. And no one would count on those who defected from previous government.[/QUOTE] They have beaten innocent people who didn't even break any laws.

[url]https://twitter.com/goddan/status/436484856626024449/photo/1[/url] They're even shooting at medics.

[QUOTE=Ripmax;43986875][url]https://twitter.com/goddan/status/436484856626024449/photo/1[/url] They're even shooting at medics.[/QUOTE] Few hours late. Been discussed already. It was suggested that the photo was taken out of context, might have been shrapnel, a stray bullet or glass. oh shit she died. Thats bad.

[QUOTE=scratch (nl);43986769]And after that they start talking about how shit our train network is... oh well Anyways, [URL="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/72157641226636504/"]flickr album of behind the frontlines [/URL][/QUOTE] Watching those is the opposite of fun

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43986912]Few hours late. Been discussed already. It was suggested that the photo was taken out of context, might have been shrapnel, a stray bullet or glass. oh shit she died. Thats bad.[/QUOTE] [url=https://twitter.com/goddan/status/436579162430914560]According to this, she didn't[/url], fortunately. Really hope she climbs out okay, it really fucking sucks when those who save lives get injured.

[QUOTE=gudman;43987019][url=https://twitter.com/goddan/status/436579162430914560]According to this, she didn't[/url], fortunately. Really hope she climbs out okay, it really fucking sucks when those who save lives get injured.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/20/i-am-dying-volunteer-tweet-shot-kiev-ukraine[/url] With so many asynchronous sources its hard to know what to believe tbh.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43987049][url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/20/i-am-dying-volunteer-tweet-shot-kiev-ukraine[/url] With so many asynchronous sources its hard to know what to believe tbh.[/QUOTE] Your bias is already cemented, no to mention annoying and baseless comparing to others.

[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43987189]Your bias is already cemented, no to mention annoying and baseless comparing to others.[/QUOTE] I have stated several times that I have no issues with peaceful protests. They are democratic, I have taken part in some. It is annoying when thugs turn it violent. Even more so when its thugs with an agenda. Even more so when they break ceasefires because they fear a diplomatic solution. Even more so when that leads to more deaths. The EU protesters had every right to protest. The laws put in place to stop them were undemocratic and totally wrong. The ceasefires and talks should have been used to stop the situation from happening. Extremist groups in the riot are stopping a peaceful solution. Baseless?

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;43986731]I'm sorry, but if you think that all the Ukrainian people are on the protestor's side and that all the police are only doing what they are told because they are scared, you are seeing things waaaay too black and white still. I've talked to Ukrainians who are very against the revolution, there's two sides to every story. While you may find it fun to put on your guy fawkes mask and play armchair revolutionary, there are people out there dying because they are fighting for something they really believe in and painting it as such a black and white "these guys are right, these guys are wrong" situation is insulting to the people who are actually involved in all this on a personal level.[/QUOTE] I've talked to the same Ukranians. As I said, I've got family there. I've had regular skype calls with Ukraine, and have spoken with my uncle and aunt who are opposed to the revolution, mostly because they fear what is to come, especially from Russia. They are not against getting rid of the government, but they are just afraid of consequences. My nefue's however (aged 25-30) are very much pro revolution. F*ck you for calling me an armchair revolutionist and making the guy fawkes analogy. I'm having a decent discussion with you here, and you just nullify my arguments by condemning me as a internet warrior. I'm not insulting you for having a different opinion than mine, so why do you insult me? You don't know nearly enough about me to be making those kinds of statements.

[QUOTE=Pr0fane;43987307]I've talked to the same Ukranians. As I said, I've got family there. I've had regular skype calls with Ukraine, and have spoken with my uncle and aunt who are opposed to the revolution, mostly because they fear what is to come, especially from Russia. They are not against getting rid of the government, but they are just afraid of consequences. My nefue's however (aged 25-30) are very much pro revolution. F*ck you for calling me an armchair revolutionist and making the guy fawkes analogy. I'm having a decent discussion with you here, and you just nullify my arguments by condemning me as a internet warrior. I'm not insulting you for having a different opinion than mine, so why do you insult me? You don't know nearly enough about me to be making those kinds of statements.[/QUOTE] mate he summed you up perfectly also I don't care about what family members you drag out as somehow an entire political sample of an entire country.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;43987318]mate he summed you up perfectly also I don't care about what family members you drag out as somehow an entire political sample of an entire country.[/QUOTE] 100% of Ukrainians are pro eu. Based on my sample of 1.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43987301]I have stated several times that I have no issues with peaceful protests. They are democratic, I have taken part in some. It is annoying when thugs turn it violent. Even more so when its thugs with an agenda. Even more so when they break ceasefires because they fear a diplomatic solution. Even more so when that leads to more deaths.[/QUOTE] Stop reposting the same stuff. You know what problems some of us have with your reasoning, namely that you're grouping all protestors into one group. That's a massive fallacy you're comitting there. 1. Some people are violent 2. Those people are protestors ----------------------------- =/= all protestors are violent

[QUOTE=Pr0fane;43987307]I've talked to the same Ukranians. As I said, I've got family there. I've had regular skype calls with Ukraine, and have spoken with my uncle and aunt who are opposed to the revolution, mostly because they fear what is to come, especially from Russia. They are not against getting rid of the government, but they are just afraid of consequences. My nefue's however (aged 25-30) are very much pro revolution. F*ck you for calling me an armchair revolutionist and making the guy fawkes analogy. I'm having a decent discussion with you here, and you just nullify my arguments by condemning me as a internet warrior. I'm not insulting you for having a different opinion than mine, so why do you insult me? You don't know nearly enough about me to be making those kinds of statements.[/QUOTE] You tried to summarise an entire group of people without any fucking clue, who do you think you are.

[QUOTE=Pr0fane;43987339]Stop reposting the same stuff. You what problems some of us have with your reasoning, namely that you're grouping all protestors into one group. That's a massive fallacy you're comitting there. 1. Some people are violent 2. Those people are protestors ----------------------------- =/= all protestors are violent[/QUOTE] Agreed entirely. I am not grouping the protesters. I have stated again in several places that the peaceful protesters have every right to protest and should not be harmed.

[QUOTE=Pr0fane;43987339]Stop reposting the same stuff. You what problems some of us have with your reasoning, namely that you're grouping all protestors into one group. That's a massive fallacy you're comitting there. 1. Some people are violent 2. Those people are protestors ----------------------------- =/= all protestors are violent[/QUOTE] And at the same time "all police are just scared" is completely okay and is not a fallacy. Based on absolutely nothing.