[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43991656]Apparently the government is in full document burning mode;
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg9NL11CYAAwt3c.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
There's something incredibly horrifying about that, to me.
Something about them burning a bunch of documents makes me think they have a big secret they were trying to keep hidden.
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;43991797]There's something incredibly horrifying about that, to me.[/QUOTE]
Not really, it's a standard procedure. Documents that are stored in police departments, special services etc. contain a lot of sensitive information that is considered secret and top secret. Plus lots of very specific personal information on various people. You don't want that to get in the wrong hands. It's not necessarily indicative of some kind of shady stuff.
[QUOTE=gudman;43992009]Not really, it's a standard procedure. Documents that are stored in police departments, special services etc. contain a lot of sensitive information that is considered secret and top secret. Plus lots of very specific personal information on various people. You don't want that to get in the wrong hands. It's not necessarily indicative of some kind of shady stuff.[/QUOTE]
This is a former east bloc state, whose traditions the police richly share. Everything you said is true, but let's be real here.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;43992302]This is a former east bloc state, whose traditions the police richly share. Everything you said is true, but let's be real here.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure the same procedure exists everywhere, not just eastern block. Because sensitive personal data on detainees and police officers can not get into anyone's hands. I do not believe that in an event of assault and impending evacuation Americal police departments would just drop everything on place and leave dozens of people in very real danger.
[QUOTE=gudman;43992346]I'm sure the same procedure exists everywhere, not just eastern block. Because sensitive personal data on detainees and police officers can not get into anyone's hands. I do not believe that in an event of assault and impending evacuation Americal police departments would just drop everything on place and leave dozens of people in very real danger.[/QUOTE]
Take it from someone who actually works with archived and declassified documents for a living -- if our grandmothers had archived every paper in their lives, they'd spend their final moments with a furnace and a paper shredder in lieu of their families.
Again, I'm sure you're right, but I'm also willing to bet that the most "sensitive" things at stake are more than just photocopies of fingerprints. If you think the Ukranian police have nothing to hide but people's social security numbers you've got to be kidding me.
I don't see why any department or government wouldn't wipe any personal or case sensitive data if they felt that their facility might fall to an attack of sorts. especially if it's personnel or secret data.
I know from a friend that works at Fort Meade that if there was any sort of intelligence leak or attack that one of the first procedures is to wipe as much data as they can. One of the older records buildings caught fire a few years ago and they just let it burn to the ground so no documents could be leaked and any surviving documents were re-burned.
My point is that "sensitive" ranges from people's PIN numbers to admissions of political scandals.
Governments meticulously record all their wrongdoings.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;43992385]Take it from someone who actually works with archived and declassified documents for a living -- if our grandmothers had archived every paper in their lives, they'd spend their final moments with a furnace and a paper shredder in lieu of their families.
Again, I'm sure you're right, but I'm also willing to bet that the most "sensitive" things at stake are more than just photocopies of fingerprints. If you think the Ukranian police have nothing to hide but people's social security numbers you've got to be kidding me.[/QUOTE]
I don't, I just say that it's a standard procedure that [b]on it's own[/b] doesn't indicate anything. Other than that, yes, they may have shit to hide.
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
Okay, it's time for some anecdotal shit, treat it as you like:
I've just been contacted by my, let's say, relative who has interesting info from another one of my relatives. The guy in question is a management ranked member of police force in a town of Slovyansk, Donetsk region in Ukraine. During the diffirent stages of civil disorder he has been on assignment in Kiev, and recently, just before Rada issued an order for security forces to return to their stations, he was ordered by his superiors in Donetsk region to return. He has to say exactly this:
- The number of 60-90 dead is more or less correct, but that's just the number of casualties among protesters. The number of casualties among police force has not been disclosed by Ministry of Internal Affairs, but on lower levels is estimated to be around 100 people dead.
- The police forces of Eastern regions seem to be put on high alert and in a state of emergency, as ordered by local governments. Civil disorder is expected.
- Some time earlier, high profile members of opposition including Klitschko "traveled" through the country to advertise their parties, and in a large number of cities and towns of Eastern regions, including Donetsk, they were blocked by crowds of people and told to fuck off of there, because "people seem to not want to seem them".
If someone wants to treat it seriously, in order to not shit this thread with arguments over anecdotal evidence, please PM me and I may be able to answer some direct questions, but later.
[url="http://translate.google.com.br/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&u=http://portuguese.ruvr.ru/news/2014_02_20/oposicionistas-ucranianos-capturam-usina-atomica-de-rovno-4269/"]It seems the protesters may have captured the Rovno nuclear power plant.[/url]
[img]http://bankwatch.org/sites/default/files/RivneNPP.jpg[/img]
Well, but why do they need the power plant?
Hopefully they dont cause a "second" chernobyl.
Maybe they need power?
From article:
"After establishing control over the main energy resource that province, attackers do not know what to do with it."
Lol nevermind. Maybe they are just capturing everything important, seems strategic enough. The protesters will win, if not, then there will never be peace until they do.
[QUOTE=opti2000;43993026]Well, but why do they need the power plant?
Hopefully they dont cause a "second" chernobyl.[/QUOTE]
I doubt that's really a possibility. They have absolutely no reason to prevent the plant from operating normally. I'd be more concerned about the government over-reacting and sending in armed police or soldiers to re-take the plant.
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
That, and modern plants are all (or at least should be) partially automated, which means if anything serious happens it will lower the nuclear controls rods back into their container:
[quote]In most reactor designs, as a safety measure, control rods are attached to the lifting machinery by electromagnets, rather than direct mechanical linkage. This means that automatically in the event of power failure, or if manually invoked due to failure of the lifting machinery, the control rods will fall, under gravity, fully into the pile to stop the reaction. A notable exception to this fail-safe mode of operation is the BWR which requires the hydraulical insertion of control rods in the event of an emergency shut-down, using water from a special tank that is under high nitrogen pressure. Quickly shutting down a reactor in this way is called scramming the reactor.[/quote]
[QUOTE=ewitwins;43993232]I doubt that's really a possibility. They have absolutely no reason to prevent the plant from operating normally. I'd be more concerned about the government over-reacting and sending in armed police or soldiers to re-take the plant.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but how is that over reacting. Any where else and that would be standard practice.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43993240]Sorry but how is that over reacting. Any where else and that would be standard practice.[/QUOTE]
Because it might not be necessary to go in guns a'blazin' so long as they let it continue through it's regular procedures. It's worth noting that if a bunch of protesters seized a nuclear power plant in the United State or the European Union, it'd less be a bullet-filled bloodbath and more of a negotiation situation.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;43993270]Because it might not be necessary to go in guns a'blazin' so long as they let it continue through it's regular procedures. It's worth noting that if a bunch of protesters seized a nuclear power plant in the United State or the European Union, it'd less be a bullet-filled bloodbath and more of a negotiation situation.[/QUOTE]
Ahh agreed negotiation should be their first port of call.
Get out of here protester.
[editline]21st February 2014[/editline]
That would actually be really cool if protesters blew the nuclear station up and doomed the whole Ukraine. Then I would be fully convienced that I am living in a hollywood action movie.
the running STALKER jokes would come full circle
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;43993308]That would actually be really cool if protesters blew the nuclear station up and doomed the whole Ukraine. Then I would be fully convienced that I am living in a hollywood action movie.[/QUOTE]
Nuclear reactors don't explode during a meltdown (not counting steam explosions like in Chernobyl's case), they just release tons of radiation into the air around them, which has a risk of spreading with the wind. The densest area around the plant is abandoned and quarantined.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;43993597]Nuclear reactors don't explode during a meltdown (not counting steam explosions like in Chernobyl's case), they just release tons of radiation into the air around them, which has a risk of spreading with the wind. The densest area around the plant is abandoned and quarantined.[/QUOTE]
Irrelevant thought since the protesters won't melt it down. They would have to be crazy to do so, it would cause a political disaster for the protests as well as a nuclear disaster.
If there were any danger of a plant melting down, Russia would invade Ukraine so fucking fast. Conspiracy theorists would be calling it a false flag to allow an invasion for decades.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;43993624]Irrelevant thought since the protesters won't melt it down. They would have to be crazy to do so, it would cause a political disaster for the protests as well as a nuclear disaster.[/QUOTE]
Oh I know they wouldn't, I was just saying that nuclear power plants don't make nuclear explosions.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;43993709]Oh I know they wouldn't, I was just saying that nuclear power plants don't make nuclear explosions.[/QUOTE]
Nope, but they can definitely blow their top and send radioactive ash and steam everywhere, like we've seen with both Chernobyl and Fukushima.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;43993749]Nope, but they can definitely blow their top and send radioactive ash and steam everywhere, like we've seen with both Chernobyl and Fukushima.[/QUOTE]
But totally irrelevant since the protesters are smarter than that.
Peace deal reached, meanwhile far right opposition does not give a shit and start provoking police.
[QUOTE=laserguided;43993803]Peace deal reached, meanwhile far right opposition does not give a shit and start provoking police.[/QUOTE]
I hope every single one of those fuckers gets arrested
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;43993857]I hope every single one of those fuckers gets arrested[/QUOTE]
100% this.
Then a peaceful, diplomatic solution can be reached which can accurately represent the wants and desires of people the people through democratic process.
So wait, does that mean Yanukovich and his entourage are going to step down?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;43993904]So wait, does that mean Yanukovich and his entourage are going to step down?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/30115.html[/url]
Seems the terms will be described at the signing.
[quote=bbc]Ukrainian MPs said the deal involved constitutional changes to reduce the power of the president, and an early election.[/quote]
A nice solution. An election is the best way to solve this. That way people will still be represented.
[B]Ukraine President Yanukovych calls early vote[/B]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26289318[/url]
[quote]Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has agreed to an early presidential election, as details emerge of a deal to end the long-running crisis.
He said he had also agreed to a national unity government and make constitutional changes reducing the power of the president.
The compromise came after hours of talks with the opposition leaders.
The opposition has not spoken about the deal and it remains unclear whether protesters will back it.[/quote]
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