Life extension technology? Let's give it to prisoners to make them suffer! - Polidicks

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;44245563]Justice is in the eye of the beholder. You could find justice in eviscerating someone for cussing you out. Anyway, extending the lives of criminals is useless, killing them maybe (depends on how the red tape works), but [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/mcrae-john-r.htm]y'know[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/miller-john-lawrence.htm]rehabilitation/release[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.F/f/ferrell-jack-dempsey.htm]isn't[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/buss-timothy.htm]the[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimee_Willard]best[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/little-dwaine.htm]thing[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Shawcross],[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.P/p/pandeli-darrel.htm]either[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/murdaugh-michael-joe.htm].[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m1/massie-robert-lee.htm].[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m1/mcduff-kenneth.htm].[/url][/QUOTE] No, Justice isn't in the eye of the beholder, vengeance and retribution are. [quote=Wikipedia]Justice is a concept of moral rightness based on ethics, rationality, law, natural law, religion, equity and fairness.[/quote] Also from the wiki page: {quote]Restorative justice[edit] Main article: Restorative justice Restorative justice (also sometimes called "reparative justice") is an approach to justice that focuses on the needs of victims and offenders, instead of satisfying abstract legal principles or punishing the offender. Victims take an active role in the process, while offenders are encouraged to take responsibility for their actions, "to repair the harm they've done—by apologizing, returning stolen money, or community service". [B]It is based on a theory of justice that considers crime and wrongdoing to be an offense against an individual or community rather than the state.[U] Restorative justice that fosters dialogue between victim and offender shows the highest rates of victim satisfaction and offender accountability.[/U][/B][/quote]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44245573]then what are you saying because you've said he should be killed before you should clarify it rather than repeat what you're not saying [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] Justice is totally in the eye of the beholding and I'm not for violent forms of justice. Yeah, that sure is proof that you can't trust rehabiliation... We should clearly just execute criminals. it'd be better, right?[/QUOTE] It sort of is proof considering nearly everyone I linked went through a parole board with psychologists before they were released. Except two or three who were pardoned from death row. I'm saying that trying at rehabilitation becomes unnecessary and potentially risky beyond a certain point.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;44245655]It sort of is proof considering nearly everyone I linked went through a parole board with psychologists before they were released. Except two or three who were pardoned from death row. I'm saying that trying at rehabilitation becomes unnecessary and potentially risky beyond a certain point.[/QUOTE] Yes, it has it's problems. No one even tried to claim it was perfect once. What is the alternative you are suggesting?

[QUOTE=bravehat;44245618]No, Justice isn't in the eye of the beholder, vengeance and retribution are. Also from the wiki page: {quote]Restorative justice[edit] Main article: Restorative justice Restorative justice (also sometimes called "reparative justice") is an approach to justice that focuses on the needs of victims and offenders, instead of satisfying abstract legal principles or punishing the offender. Victims take an active role in the process, while offenders are encouraged to take responsibility for their actions, "to repair the harm they've done—by apologizing, returning stolen money, or community service". [B]It is based on a theory of justice that considers crime and wrongdoing to be an offense against an individual or community rather than the state.[U] Restorative justice that fosters dialogue between victim and offender shows the highest rates of victim satisfaction and offender accountability.[/U][/B][/quote][/QUOTE] If I understand correctly, in the last line they're saying that having the rape victim talk to the rapist, will give him/her the most satisfaction and will hold the rapist accountable?

I mean you no doubt don't consider the death of innocents by the death penalty as abhorrent as murderers faking their rehabilitation, right? [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Shreddinger;44245675][/QUOTE] If I understand correctly,in the last line they're saying that having the rape victim talk to the rapist, will give him/her the most satisfaction and will host the rapist accountable?[/QUOTE] Yes. It's been shown to have a good effect in a large number of cases. Just killing the rapist doesn't actually give anyone any level of mental satisfaction at a deep level. It is primal and brutal and doesn't actually do anything for anyone.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44245677]I mean you no doubt don't consider the death of innocents by the death penalty as abhorrent as murderers faking their rehabilitation, right? [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] If I understand correctly,in the last line they're saying that having the rape victim talk to the rapist, will give him/her the most satisfaction and will host the rapist accountable?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Yes. It's been shown to have a good effect in a large number of cases. Just killing the rapist doesn't actually give anyone any level of mental satisfaction at a deep level. It is primal and brutal and doesn't actually do anything for anyone.[/QUOTE] how is talking the to person who raped you satisfying?

[QUOTE=bravehat;44245618]No, Justice isn't in the eye of the beholder, vengeance and retribution are. Also from the wiki page: {quote]Restorative justice[edit] Main article: Restorative justice Restorative justice (also sometimes called "reparative justice") is an approach to justice that focuses on the needs of victims and offenders, instead of satisfying abstract legal principles or punishing the offender. Victims take an active role in the process, while offenders are encouraged to take responsibility for their actions, "to repair the harm they've done—by apologizing, returning stolen money, or community service". [B]It is based on a theory of justice that considers crime and wrongdoing to be an offense against an individual or community rather than the state.[U] Restorative justice that fosters dialogue between victim and offender shows the highest rates of victim satisfaction and offender accountability.[/U][/B][/quote][/QUOTE] You're forgetting that justice is entirely open to debate as a philosophy and has been redefined by thousands of different people and nations over the course of history. It sort of undeniably is in the eye of the beholder. The only concept within that definition that isn't totally subjective is rationality.

Becacuse you realize the person who wronged you isn't a monster from the deep dark under your bed but is a person who has had their own life, and their own problems and their own pain that you may not want to even recognize exists but this person did not choose to harm you because he's a monster, but because he had his own problems. Realizing that you weren't attacked a fiction but by a real person who is remorseful when they meet their victim is helpful. How does having your rapist killed help you?

[quote]If I understand correctly,in the last line they're saying that having the rape victim talk to the rapist, will give him/her the most satisfaction and will host the rapist accountable?[/QUOTE] I'd imagine there's a bit of a difference between you know, pinching someones car or TV and raping them when it comes to restorative justice, but the general principle is that just punishing a criminal achieves nothing for any party involved other than private prison companies and that the only way to really change anything is to actually give the criminal the opportunity to understand what they've done and to try and make amends.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44245666]Yes, it has it's problems. No one even tried to claim it was perfect once. What is the alternative you are suggesting?[/QUOTE] Lock people who commit especially heinous crimes up forever with absolutely zero chance of release unless it has been proven that they weren't the ones who did it? I never said you [i]have[/i] to kill people.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44245737]Becacuse you realize the person who wronged you isn't a monster from the deep dark under your bed but is a person who has had their own life, and their own problems and their own pain that you may not want to even recognize exists but this person did not choose to harm you because he's a monster, but because he had his own problems. Realizing that you weren't attacked a fiction but by a real person who is remorseful when they meet their victim is helpful. How does having your rapist killed help you?[/QUOTE] Can you please stop suggesting that I think we should kill him each time, it gets really annoying.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44245761]Can you please stop suggesting that I think we should kill him each time, it gets really annoying.[/QUOTE] But you're not able to offer up an alternative to punishment based justice so what am I supposed to think you want? You don't want him rehabiliated, you claim you don't want him to be killed, so what, you just want him to rot in a cage forever? If you can't put your own view forth you shouldn't have the conversation honestly. [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=U.S.S.R;44245755]Lock people who commit especially heinous crimes up forever with absolutely zero chance of release unless it has been proven that they weren't the ones who did it? I never said you [i]have[/i] to kill people.[/QUOTE] Most people should be able to be rehabilitated. Some won't. Some are true sociopaths or psychopaths that are beyond help. Yeah, lock them up for as long as needed, otherwise we don't need to kill a single person.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44245805]But you're not able to offer up an alternative to punishment based justice so what am I supposed to think you want? You don't want him rehabiliated, you claim you don't want him to be killed, so what, you just want him to rot in a cage forever? If you can't put your own view forth you shouldn't have the conversation honestly. [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] Most people should be able to be rehabilitated. Some won't. Some are true sociopaths or psychopaths that are beyond help. Yeah, lock them up for as long as needed, otherwise we don't need to kill a single person.[/QUOTE] I don't have a view, I'm simply discussing the matter.

Whenever I hear someone say something stupid along the lines of, "The death penalty is too good for them! Let them rot in prison for the rest of their lives," I slowly take a few steps away from the clearly unstable, sadistic person. This is like their wet dream.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;44245890]Whenever I hear someone say something stupid along the lines of, "The death penalty is too good for them! Let them rot in prison for the rest of their lives," I slowly take a few steps away from the clearly unstable, sadistic person. This is like their wet dream.[/QUOTE] These kind of responses aren't exactly rare ...

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44246116]These kind of responses aren't exactly rare ...[/QUOTE] Probably because wanting to impart death and suffering on someone is the exact same that a murderer does.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44245498]Yes, but the victim doesn't get to exist in the world anymore, while the killer does How is this fair, the mere fact that he gets to exist in the world after taking away someone else's existence is kind of unjust, right? This all really boils down to if the killer is ultimately responsible for his actions (what TurboSax said) ... [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] I'm going to ignore you from now on. [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] My opinion is irrelevant, my opinion ≠ what actually should be done.[/QUOTE] this isn't ancient sumeria, we don't follow the ancient "eye for an eye" bullshit because we are advanced enough to realize that adding more pain on top of the pain that has already been created will do nothing to help anybody and honestly it makes me sick that people like you advocate torture under the guise of justice. we don't follow what is [I]fair[/I]. We follow what is [I]right[/I] and that's seeing the need to end the suffering. Sure we could torture murderers but why? What would that do for us? Can we extract a drug that makes the families feel better from the tears of the damned? No, I say that's bullshit heat-of-the-moment passion that is not something wise to listen to when making short term moral decisions. Enough is enough.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44246116]These kind of responses aren't exactly rare ...[/QUOTE] and how are they different from the reactions of murderers who actually kill people they're not really, they're both emotionally charged actions that don't get anyone anything of value.

It occurs to me that it'd be great if we could just kinda trap people in a reality where time goes much faster there than it does in real life, so they could serve a year's sentence without having to readjust to the outside world being completely different from how they remember it - we could even have prison visits wherein guests enter this reality

I don't believe that anybody can emerge from 1000 years of solitary without totally losing their minds.

[QUOTE=Irockz;44246351]It occurs to me that it'd be great if we could just kinda trap people in a reality where time goes much faster there than it does in real life, so they could serve a year's sentence without having to readjust to the outside world being completely different from how they remember it - we could even have prison visits wherein guests enter this reality[/QUOTE] the sad thing is that this technology has such immense potential to raise quality of life for everyone, but people just want to use it to torture each other. the daily mail literally epitomizes everything anyone has ever said was bad about humanity.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;44245563]Justice is in the eye of the beholder. You could find justice in eviscerating someone for cussing you out. Anyway, extending the lives of criminals is useless, killing them maybe (depends on how the red tape works), but [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/mcrae-john-r.htm]y'know[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/miller-john-lawrence.htm]rehabilitation/release[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.F/f/ferrell-jack-dempsey.htm]isn't[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/buss-timothy.htm]the[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimee_Willard]best[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/little-dwaine.htm]thing[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Shawcross],[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.P/p/pandeli-darrel.htm]either[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/murdaugh-michael-joe.htm].[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m1/massie-robert-lee.htm].[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m1/mcduff-kenneth.htm].[/url][/QUOTE] I too can cherry pick cases where X solution for problem Y didn't work either. There are reasons why rehabilitation isn't an algorithm for solving the criminal problem.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;44245563]Justice is in the eye of the beholder. You could find justice in eviscerating someone for cussing you out. Anyway, extending the lives of criminals is useless, killing them maybe (depends on how the red tape works), but [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/mcrae-john-r.htm]y'know[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/miller-john-lawrence.htm]rehabilitation/release[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.F/f/ferrell-jack-dempsey.htm]isn't[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/buss-timothy.htm]the[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimee_Willard]best[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/little-dwaine.htm]thing[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Shawcross],[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.P/p/pandeli-darrel.htm]either[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/murdaugh-michael-joe.htm].[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m1/massie-robert-lee.htm].[/url] [url=http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m1/mcduff-kenneth.htm].[/url][/QUOTE] You're going to decide that rehabilitation isn't worth trying on murderers in general, based on 11 cherry picked cases?

[QUOTE=Satane;44247776]Life in prison is a fate worse than death. I don't see why we should torture them and spend money on them. (them being the worst of criminals with no parole etc.)[/QUOTE] That's fine. Let's spend the money to keep them alive. I'd rather we do that then kill someone or even potentially risk killing an innocent. [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] And lets do away with solitary confinement so prison isn't purely punitive.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44248789]That's fine. Let's spend the money to keep them alive. I'd rather we do that then kill someone or even potentially risk killing an innocent. [editline]15th March 2014[/editline] [U]And lets do away with solitary confinement so prison isn't purely punitive.[/u][/QUOTE] I agree that solitary is inhumane as anything, but I can imagine there being situations in which it's a necessity. What if there's someone who can't be rehabilitated, and poses a constant risk to anyone and everyone that he's around? We can't let him mingle with other prisoners, we don't want to kill him, so what?

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44248683]You're going to decide that rehabilitation isn't worth trying on murderers in general, based on 11 cherry picked cases?[/QUOTE] There's a lot more where that came from. I just didn't want to spend an hour copying and pasting links. Only one case is enough to warrant my belief, anyway. Taking tremendous risks and potentially throwing away the lives of multiple people so one person gets a second chance is bullshit.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;44249051]There's a lot more where that came from. I just didn't want to spend an hour copying and pasting links. Only one case is enough to warrant my belief, anyway. Taking tremendous risks and potentially throwing away the lives of multiple people so one person gets a second chance is bullshit.[/QUOTE] Damning a person, based on the actions of others in their situation, in order to save hypothetical lives is better?

Let's use it for the betterment of humanity? Nah let's use it to torture prisoners instead.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;44249051]There's a lot more where that came from. I just didn't want to spend an hour copying and pasting links. Only one case is enough to warrant my belief, anyway. Taking tremendous risks and potentially throwing away the lives of multiple people so one person gets a second chance is bullshit.[/QUOTE] so just fuck rehabilitation right? That's so ridiculous.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44249339]so just fuck rehabilitation right? That's so ridiculous.[/QUOTE] More like fuck rehabilitation for murderers and rapists and torturers, or if you're gonna rehabilitate them, don't release them.