Helen Mirren thinks holding an arm around your girlfriend is sexist

[splenda]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;48700322]no one is saying helen mirren is stupid because she's "going up against social norms", they're saying she's stupid because she said something fucking stupid

The difference between saying women should be able to vote and saying that men shouldn't put their arms around their girlfriends is that one of those statements is fucking stupid and the other one isn't

But by all means, please continue to diminish the long and bloody struggle for equality by comparing it to someone complaining about how other people express affection in public.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if this post is directed at me so apologies if it is not, but I do not see how I was diminishing the struggle for equality. JumpinJackFlash was just mentioning how he does not feel the same flack that today's third-wave feminists are getting is similar to what other socially progressive movements of the past got and that is, from what I know and have studied, is flat out wrong. The dirogitory use of the terms "SJW" and "feminazi" is no different then how people treated MLK or members of the first-wave or second-wave feminist groups, and I was just trying to clear that up. Finally, even if you do think I am diminishing the other feminist waves, don't you think that is a little harsh? Third-wave feminism is just as valid as first or second in my opinion. From its roots in the music/arts scene to what it has grown into today, I feel it is a necessary activism group, but like all activism groups, a lot, if not the majority, of people will disagree with it.

[editline]16th September 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Pilot1215;48700357]Sure is a lot of arguments going on. Can we all at least agree holding an arm around your girlfriend is not sexist? I mean, my ex girlfriend used to randomly put her arm around me at times. I've been with a SJW, she had no issue with it either. Unfortunately people make stupid remarks like this one. Some third waver once said ALL sex, even consensual, was rape. Just people making very stupid remarks about mundane things and trying to sound intelligent or something.[/QUOTE]

Basically the viewpoint of me, arguably the most like minded person in this thread to Helen Mirren, is that if the girl is cool with you putting your arm around her then that is fine. Just don't overstep your boundaries or do what some people do where when they meet a lady, which is they instantly put their arm around her, usually with a cigarette or beer or something in the arm closest to the woman's face. That is just rude.

[Pilot1215]

[QUOTE=splenda;48700385]
Basically the viewpoint of me, arguably the most like minded person in this thread to Helen Mirren, is that if the girl is cool with you putting your arm around her then that is fine. Just don't overstep your boundaries or do what some people do where when they meet a lady, which is they instantly put their arm around her, usually with a cigarette or beer or something in the arm closest to the woman's face. That is just rude.[/QUOTE]

I agree, always make sure it's fine before you do it. Seen plenty of women react to some drunk guy doing that to them.

[Swilly]

[QUOTE=splenda;48700075]
Finally (this post is becoming a Frankenstein) the whole point to the third wave feminist movement is to be heard and to make boys mad. Like from its origins in music, the whole point was for "grrls" to take center stage and tell boys that they have their time to do their thing and now girls want there time too. Getting upset and raving about "SJWs" and stuff is kind of what people want because it means their voices are heard.[/QUOTE]

I wrote up this whole rant but its not worth it. If they're willing to get people angry, congratulations, you're gonna get nothing done.

[Mr. Scorpio]

[QUOTE=splenda;48700385]I don't know if this post is directed at me so apologies, if it is not, but I do not see how I was diminishing the struggle for equality. JumpinJackFlash was just mentioning how he does not feel the same flack that today's third-wave feminists are getting is similar to what other socially progressive movements of the past got and that is, from what I know and have studied, is flat out wrong. The dirogitory use of the terms "SJW" and "feminazi" is no different then how people treated MLK or members of the first-wave or second-wave feminist groups, and I was just trying to clear that up. Finally, even if you do think I am diminishing the other feminist waves, don't you think that is a little harsh? Third-wave feminism is just as valid as first or second in my opinion. From its roots in the music/arts scene to what it has grown into today, I feel it is a necessary activism group, but like all activism groups, a lot, if not the majority, of people will disagree with it.[/QUOTE]

breaking news: People insult those they find belligerent, stupid, and wrong. Sometimes justly, sometimes not.

The idea that calling what one or a group of feminists say or do stupid is the same as calling all feminists, progressives, and egalitarians throughout history stupid is just fucking retarded.

If someone says something dumb they deserve to be called out on it. Refusing to call out someone when they do something dumb because of their ideological affiliations is weird and culty.

[splenda]

[QUOTE=Pilot1215;48700441]I agree, always make sure it's fine before you do it. Seen plenty of women react to some drunk guy doing that to them.[/QUOTE]

Like the point I think she is trying to make is a lot of the time guys who are in a relationship think the only thing they need to ask the woman's opinion about is sex, but other than that they have free reign to do whatever. In this instance, she is bringing up when a couple is walking down the street or just standing around and the guy thinks its ok to put his body weight on the girl or to forcefully hold her in tight, to the point that she can not break free. Seeing how the average weight and height of a US male is 195.5 pounds and 5'9" and the averages for a female are 166.2 pounds and 5'3", there is a big disparity there and there is a good chance the woman would be unable to break free of the grasp/handle the weight due to her size and weight difference. Like its not so much that you need to ask your significant other for consent for every little thing you do, but that you should be socially aware enough to know what your partner likes and does not like, and when in doubt just ask.

[HumanAbyss]

[QUOTE=splenda;48700460]Like the point I think she is trying to make is a lot of the time guys who are in a relationship think the only thing they need to ask the woman's opinion about is sex, but other than that they have free reign to do whatever. In this instance, she is bringing up when a couple is walking down the street or just standing around and the guy thinks its ok to put his body weight on the girl or to forcefully hold her in tight, to the point that she can not break free. Seeing how the average weight and height of a US male is 195.5 pounds and 5'9" and the averages for a female are 166.2 pounds and 5'3", there is a big disparity there and there is a good chance the woman would be unable to break free of the grasp/handle the weight due to her size and weight difference. Like its not so much that you need to ask your significant other for consent for every little thing you do, but that you should be socially aware enough to know what your partner likes and does not like, and when in doubt just ask.[/QUOTE]

I am so glad I don't look at couples going down the street in the same mentality that you seem to

[editline]16th September 2015[/editline]

You seem way too comfortable speaking for other people honestly

[splenda]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;48700452]breaking news: People insult those they find belligerent, stupid, and wrong. Sometimes justly, sometimes not.

The idea that calling what one or a group of feminists say or do stupid is the same as calling all feminists, progressives, and egalitarians throughout history stupid is just fucking retarded.

If someone says something dumb they deserve to be called out on it. Refusing to call out someone when they do something dumb because of their ideological affiliations is weird and culty.[/QUOTE]

The point that I was trying to make was that all these societal norms we take for granted were at some point in the same boat as what this woman said in this "article" (more of a rant but whatever now is not the time for me to critique the source.) Does this mean that what Helen Mirren said will someday be a societal norm? Probably not. Does it mean what like any of what any activist group who gets flack be seen as a societal norm? Definitely not. Are there parts of third wave feminism that are just as valid as any of the other historically successful social activist movements? You betcha! Just as not everything from every social movement is fully integrated into society when it is deemed "historically successful", not all parts of the current wave of feminism are that pressing. The beauty with large scale activist groups is a bunch of ideas are brought up, and then time will tell what ideas are actually stressed and which ones are left to burn out.

[editline]16th September 2015[/editline]

I really do not have the time for this debate right now but if anyone wants to continue it you can just PM me I guess I don't really mind. But I have other stuff to do so if I don't post in this thread don't think it's because I gave up!

[Mr. Scorpio]

[QUOTE=splenda;48700480]The point that I was trying to make was that all these societal norms we take for granted were at some point in the same boat as what this woman said in this "article" (more of a rant but whatever now is not the time for me to critique the source.) Does this mean that what Helen Mirren said will someday be a societal norm? Probably not. Does it mean what like any of what any activist group who gets flack be seen as a societal norm? Definitely not. Are there parts of third wave feminism that are just as valid as any of the other historically successful social activist movements? You betcha! Just as not everything from every social movement is fully integrated into society when it is deemed "historically successful", not all parts of the current wave of feminism are that pressing. The beauty with large scale activist groups is a bunch of ideas are brought up, and then time will tell what ideas are actually stressed and which ones are left to burn out.

[editline]16th September 2015[/editline]

I really do not have the time for this debate right now but if anyone wants to continue it you can just PM me I guess I don't really mind. But I have other stuff to do so if I don't post in this thread don't think it's because I gave up![/QUOTE]

yeah and part of "burning out ideas" is discussing them and deciding which ones make no fucking sense, like the idea that couples shouldn't put their arms around each other

that is what this is, it is people digesting an idea and expressing their distaste for it and their lowered opinion of the person/people who thought it was a good one

yeah, all activists get flack. So does fucking Golden Dawn. That doesn't mean that criticizing one is in any way shape or form the same as criticizing the other.

[Froztshock]

People just get annoyed when terms that have a [i]very[/i] negative connotation seem to get applied to them in a blanket statement. Of course, I don't think that Helen Mirren meant to say that putting your arm around a girlfriend makes you a sexist, I really don't. But given the current climate and the sensationalism of the article, that's what a lot of people see. It's unfortunate, but I also don't think that it's entirely their fault...

I think that Splenda is doing a particularly good job of trying to make these points in a calm, reasonable manner. Do I agree with everything they're saying? No, but it's a hell of a lot better than the first exposure to support of these ideals that most of this forum got. I still remember thisispain calling people transphobic for saying that they'd respectfully rather not have sex with a transsexual even though they have no problem with them being able to do as they wish with their lives in general, and circular arguments for ten plus pages...

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48700463]I am so glad I don't look at couples going down the street in the same mentality that you seem to

[editline]16th September 2015[/editline]

You seem way too comfortable speaking for other people honestly[/QUOTE]

Like, this is a bit much. I don't know if it's really that common for a guy to manhandle a girlfriend to the point of discomfort out in public (which is what they're talking about in your quote), I'd argue that it's pretty rare because I've personally never seen girls looking uncomfortable like that and I see couples walking together a LOT on a college campus, but I don't think that it's really wrong to say that everyone should be onboard with things, and that seems to generally be Splenda's point here.

[JumpinJackFlash]

[QUOTE=splenda;48700075]-a big post-[/QUOTE]"Social Justice Warriors" are people who get offended simply for the sake of getting offended, they're addicted to controversy. Like any addict they'll eventually need to escalate either the dosage or the drug, and eventually they transform into full tumblrinas who see everything in shades of privilege, patriarchy conspiracies, mental rape, or whatever other kooky bullshit they come up with. These people are disconnected with reality, they drank their own kool-aid, and the more I see their shit and the more they try to push this controversy in their "quest for social justice" the less I respect them. All they have is really just a perpetual drive in making everyone else feel bad and elevating themselves in what is really just emotional masturbation, they're not in it for anyone but themselves and I can guarantee you if they gave a fuck they'd actually do something about it. I've not once seen somebody who self-identifies as a fucking "social justice warrior" down at the soup kitchen, and most of the people who cry about racism or social inequality are white, middle-class college students who haven't seen a hard day in their lives or actually had to bust their ass in a hard day of work. At the very most they'll go to a protest to stand around and shout and then tell everyone how great they are for doing so, and if you ask them "well what could you do to help out more" they'll answer with "oh I gotta hit social media with more news stories." Actual response there from a real one, I was on the blue line coming back from the airport in Minneapolis, and I'm like, what? So all your other special snowflake hugbox friends can agree with you in that echo chamber you built for yourself you dumb cunt?

Dealing with these shitty people is awful and it's one of the major things I don't miss about the Cities at all. All they have is a peaceful, uneventful life and they're terrified of being mundane or not exceptional like mommy and daddy told them they were, so they're going to put everyone else down while they sit on their fat fucking asses and do nothing at all. Expecting me to accept they're even remotely in the same league as civil rights activists and suffragettes is an insult not only to my intelligence but to yourself.

[HumanAbyss]

[QUOTE=froztshock;48700548]People just get annoyed when terms that have a [i]very[/i] negative connotation seem to get applied to them in a blanket statement. Of course, I don't think that Helen Mirren meant to say that putting your arm around a girlfriend makes you a sexist, I really don't. But given the current climate and the sensationalism of the article, that's what a lot of people see. It's unfortunate, but I also don't think that it's entirely their fault...

I think that Splenda is doing a particularly good job of trying to make these points in a calm, reasonable manner. Do I agree with everything they're saying? No, but it's a hell of a lot better than the first exposure to support of these ideals that most of this forum got. I still remember thisispain calling people transphobic for saying that they'd respectfully rather not have sex with a transsexual even though they have no problem with them being able to do as they wish with their lives in general, and circular arguments for ten plus pages...

Like, this is a bit much. I don't know if it's really that common for a guy to manhandle a girlfriend to the point of discomfort out in public (which is what they're talking about in your quote), I'd argue that it's pretty rare because I've personally never seen girls looking uncomfortable like that and I see couples walking together a LOT on a college campus, but I don't think that it's really wrong to say that everyone should be onboard with things, and that seems to generally be Splenda's point here.[/QUOTE]

If someone's uncomfortable in a relationship, I don't believe it's my place to step in and be the person to point that out. For one, I don't know them, for two, I don't know their circumstances.

I've personally never seen someone put their arm around their girlfriend specifically in a super possessive crazy way and sure I'd agree that's not a good thing. I would how'd we say that's different than just seeing the action in general as possessive.

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48689958]The "anti-socjus" shit is getting fucking silly now. You are the victims of nothing, fighting against nothing using totally useless tactics like insulting the strawmen you've built. Take a step back from the keyboard, think about what you're doing for a bit and come back with some actual understanding of just what you think you're fighting, because it's not what you think it is.[/QUOTE]
If extremist progressives didn't have any influence, stupid bullshit like racial quotas wouldn't be enforced. I don't see what your deal is with trying to deny their impact on society.