• 'Israel's status worst since 70s'
    109 replies, posted
[QUOTE]It's an Israeli claim, Israel told the U.S, U.S says bullshit. [url]http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declas...rrorists-.html[/url][/quote] No, the Israeli claim is that it's [i]linked[/i] to terrorist organizations and others, which is totally true. From your article (did you even read it?): "Two U.S. counterterrorism officials, asking for anonymity when discussing sensitive information, tell Declassified that although there is evidence that I.H.H. or some of its personnel had interactions in the past with radical groups beyond Hamas—possibly including Al Qaeda—intelligence available at present does not substantiate a significant connection between I.H.H. and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist organization. A third U.S. official, also requesting anonymity, says the Obama administration asked the Turkish government late last year for information about possible I.H.H. links to terrorist groups. Two of the officials say the fact that I.H.H. still isn’t on the list is a sign that Turkey’s response did not show a substantial connection between I.H.H. and active terrorists. And the Obama administration has no plans at present to add I.H.H. to the list, according to two of the officials. “I.H.H. is sympathetic to Hamas,” says one of the officials. “[But] that by itself does not make them terrorists.” "
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23299514]It shows the so-called "peace activists" chanting antisemitic songs and saying they want to be shahids or martyrs. [editline]02:11PM[/editline] Also: [URL]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704025304575284081264400448.html[/URL][/QUOTE] I don't see what's wrong dying for a cause, just like you wouldn't criticize tree huggers for being 'matyrs' by saying they would rather die or be run over as they try to save a tree. As for the antisemitic chants, most people stereotype all Jews as Zionists for some reason. That doesn't make them terrorists.
[QUOTE=dutchah;23299480]This is an article argumenting that Israel hasn't been this fucked since the 70's, do you honestly expect it to also make a point how Israel is also filled with flowers and sunshine?[/QUOTE] I expect it to make an argument, give news about an event or be a starting point for a discussion. There's no argument as all she says is "This sucks", there's no news or event that this brings to light and the only discussion that can come from it is Israel sucks, no they don't, yes they do. A News article that actually says something is fine but for fucks sake, this is just Starpluck reminding everyone of how evil they are.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23299596]I don't see what's wrong dying for a cause, just like you wouldn't criticize tree huggers for being 'matyrs' by saying they would rather then or be run over as they try to save a tree. As for the antisemitic chants, most people stereotype all Jews as Zionists for some reason. That doesn't make them terrorists.[/QUOTE] Oh dear... What they were chanting, by the way, glorefies the Battle of khaybar: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khaybar[/url]
[QUOTE=ohadje;23299553]No, the Israeli claim is that it's [I]linked[/I] to terrorist organizations and others, which is totally true. From your article (did you even read it?): "Two U.S. counterterrorism officials, asking for anonymity when discussing sensitive information, tell Declassified that although there is evidence that I.H.H. or some of its personnel had interactions in the past with radical groups beyond Hamas—possibly including Al Qaeda—intelligence available at present does not substantiate a significant connection between I.H.H. and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist organization. A third U.S. official, also requesting anonymity, says the Obama administration asked the Turkish government late last year for information about possible I.H.H. links to terrorist groups. Two of the officials say the fact that I.H.H. still isn’t on the list is a sign that Turkey’s response did not show a substantial connection between I.H.H. and active terrorists. And the Obama administration has no plans at present to add I.H.H. to the list, according to two of the officials. “I.H.H. is sympathetic to Hamas,” says one of the officials. “[But] that by itself does not make them terrorists.” "[/QUOTE] So there isn't enough evidence proving they have connection with terrorists, Obama has no plans to add them to the terrorist list.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23299635]So there isn't enough evidence proving they have connection with terrorists, Obama has no plans to add them to the terrorist list.[/QUOTE] Because the list only includes those that are terrorists, not those that have links/support/sympethize with therrorists. The IHH supports terrorist oragnization and it was banned in [i]Turkey[/i] for that.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23299596]I don't see what's wrong dying for a cause, just like you wouldn't criticize tree huggers for being 'matyrs' by saying they would rather then or be run over as they try to save a tree. As for the antisemitic chants, most people stereotype all Jews as Zionists for some reason. That doesn't make them terrorists.[/QUOTE] The difference being a soldier willing to die for a cause will avoid death if they can, just understands that their life may be on the line. A martyr wants to die for the cause and will actively pursue that end. Tree huggers stand in the way but do not actively wish for their own deaths.
And look what happened just as we're speaking: [url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/germany-outlaws-ihh-over-claimed-hamas-links-1.301483[/url]
Why can't we all just get along?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23300069]And look what happened just as we're speaking: [url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/germany-outlaws-ihh-over-claimed-hamas-links-1.301483[/url][/QUOTE] Burn!
[QUOTE=Llivavin;23298600]Why is facepunch so pro-israel? I think I've seen only two or three other people who aren't besides my self. Guess human rights are nothing.[/QUOTE] Since when is everyone pro israel?
Whatever happened to that single Israel thread where everyone posted all their shit in there?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23300069]And look what happened just as we're speaking: [URL]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/germany-outlaws-ihh-over-claimed-hamas-links-1.301483[/URL][/QUOTE] Yeah, they outlawed the charity. They didn't cut down their crops or fire rockets at their schools.
Wait what happened you guys I remember everyone posting all these "Fuck Israel" Things in every Israel related thread on facepunch (and some not) and now all of a sudden a lot of you seem to be agreeing with burnemdown I'm not taking sides here I'm just wondering; when did these threads suddenly turn in another direction?
[QUOTE=Dotmister;23303422]Yeah, they outlawed the charity. They didn't cut down their crops or fire rockets at their schools.[/QUOTE] Funny you should mention "fire rockets at their schools": [url]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3401172,00.html[/url]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23303513]Funny you should mention "fire rockets at their schools": [URL]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3401172,00.html[/URL][/QUOTE] Thats from 3 years ago and requires Internet Explorer and an ActiveX plugin to watch, no thank you. [URL]http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html[/URL] That one however was last year. Then again we've already been through this. Try find something newer then what israel did to Gaza
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23303513]Funny you should mention "fire rockets at their schools": [URL]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3401172,00.html[/URL][/QUOTE] Oh now that source is credible! B-b-ut I thought this wasn't: [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=967114[/url]
[QUOTE=Dotmister;23303619]Thats from 3 years ago and requires Internet Explorer and an ActiveX plugin to watch. [URL]http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html[/URL] That one however was last year. Then again we've already been through this. Try find something newer then what israel did to Gaza[/QUOTE] From your article: "Some Jabalya refugees at the school said they saw a small group of militants firing mortars near the school and running away, the Associated Press reported. A Gaza resident contacted by TIME said there is a citrus grove not far from the school. "Most likely, the militants fired from there," said the resident, who requested anonymity. But Israeli military officials insist that the mortars were fired from within the crowded schoolyard and that Hamas is using civilians as human shields." I don't think that any schools were hit since Cast Lead, and that's because rocket fires lowered to about 1-2 per month, but people still die. Guess why they lowered their rocket launches so much? They fear Israeli counter-measures, as in, the operation was effective in stopping future rocket attacks. [editline]07:02PM[/editline] [QUOTE=starpluck;23303778]Oh now that source is credible! B-b-ut I thought this wasn't: [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=967114[/url][/QUOTE] Except I didn't say something like "oh those ynet guys can't prove she said that", I've said that "what she said doesn't matter because she has no power whatsoever, her words mean nothing".
[QUOTE=starpluck;23303778]Oh now that source is credible! B-b-ut I thought this wasn't: [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=967114[/url][/QUOTE] :wtc: are you talking about
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23304134]From your article: "Some Jabalya refugees at the school said they saw a small group of militants firing mortars near the school and running away, the Associated Press reported. A Gaza resident contacted by TIME said there is a citrus grove not far from the school. "Most likely, the militants fired from there," said the resident, who requested anonymity. But Israeli military officials insist that the mortars were fired from within the crowded schoolyard and that Hamas is using civilians as human shields." I don't think that any schools were hit since Cast Lead, and that's because rocket fires lowered to about 1-2 per month, but people still die. Guess why they lowered their rocket launches so much? They fear Israeli counter-measures, as in, the operation was effective in stopping future rocket attacks.[/QUOTE] lol'd at the third paragraph. You have to admit that's major league bullshit. To the rest, NOW you're relying on witness testimony? No way! You attempted to invalidate all our arguments in the past because it had a bit of witness testimony in it. So now, I'm going to value the U.N over some civilians. [editline]07:02PM[/editline] Except I didn't say something like "oh those ynet guys can't prove she said that", I've said that "what she said doesn't matter because she has no power whatsoever, her words mean nothing".[/QUOTE] [editline]07:06PM[/editline] [QUOTE=ohadje;23304192]:wtc: are you talking about[/QUOTE] :wtc: read the thread.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23304209]lol'd at the third paragraph. You have to admit that's major league bullshit. To the rest, NOW you're relying on witness testimony? No way! You attempted to invalidate all our arguments because it had a bit of witness testimony in it. So I'm going to value the U.N over some civilians.[/QUOTE] No problem with that, but the UN specifically said that there weren't terrorists inside the building, not outside, and the IDF was firing outside of it.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23304260]No problem with that, but the UN specifically said that there weren't terrorists inside the building, not outside, and the IDF was firing outside of it.[/QUOTE] The IDF were firing inside hence "They were mortaring and using human shields from the crowded schoolyard" [editline]07:10PM[/editline] [quote=the times]The Israel Defense Forces Spokesman's Office asserted that militants fired mortars from inside the school[/quote]
[QUOTE=starpluck;23304288]The IDF were firing inside hence "They were mortaring and using human shields from the crowded schoolyard"[/QUOTE] The schoolyard is outside, it's the place outside of the building that still belongs to the school, like this picture: [IMG]http://thegrownupchild.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/schoolyard.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23304317]The schoolyard is outside, it's the place outside of the building that still belongs to the school, like this picture: [IMG]http://thegrownupchild.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/schoolyard.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] The IDF is contradicting themselves [quote]But Israeli military officials insist that the mortars were fired from within the crowded schoolyard and that Hamas is using civilians as human shields.[/quote] [quote]The Israel Defense Forces Spokesman's Office asserted that militants fired mortars from inside the school[/quote] Or, when they refer to 'inside the school' they don't literally mean inside, under the roof. Even being in school premises qualifies being 'inside the school'. Or else the news article would be invalid.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23304288]"the times: The Israel Defense Forces Spokesman's Office asserted that militants fired mortars from inside the school "[/QUOTE] So at the beginning of the article this is reported, but afterwards this is: "But Israeli military officials insist that the mortars were fired from within the crowded schoolyard and that Hamas is using civilians as human shields." So why do they say different thing? Because between them it says "But after a preliminary investigation of the Jan. 6 attack at the Fakhura girl's elementary school, "we're 99.9% sure that no militants were at the school," says Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA)." So yeah, the IDF shouldn't have said that they were in the school at first, but later said that they were outside. [editline]07:23PM[/editline] Hey guys, guess what happened exactly 4 years ago?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23304493]So at the beginning of the article this is reported, but afterwards this is: "But Israeli military officials insist that the mortars were fired from within the crowded schoolyard and that Hamas is using civilians as human shields." So why do they say different thing? Because between them it says "But after a preliminary investigation of the Jan. 6 attack at the Fakhura girl's elementary school, "we're 99.9% sure that no militants were at the school," says Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA)." So yeah, the IDF shouldn't have said that they were in the school at first, but later said that they were outside.[/QUOTE] Chris Gunness said "at the school" that means inside or outside (school yard) since it's part of the school. [editline]07:25PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23304493] Hey guys, guess what happened exactly 4 years ago?[/QUOTE] :ohdear: FFFF
How could he know that no terrorists were outside, in the schoolyard, if it was really crowded? [editline]07:36PM[/editline] And it says right there that there were 400 Palestinians in the school. How could he know that all those 400 people weren't with the Hamas?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23304826]How could he know that no terrorists were outside, in the schoolyard, if it was really crowded? [editline]07:36PM[/editline] And it says right there that there were 400 Palestinians in the school. How could he know that all those 400 people weren't with the Hamas?[/QUOTE] You're going to have to ask him, I'm sure he knows and since there really isn't a reason to be biased. And not only that, you could tell if someone is going to use your school as a launch pad. Also look, it'd be insanely obvious [IMG]http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/hamasrockettrail.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.france24.com/en/files/imagecache/aef_ct_article_image/story/Hamas-Rocket-m.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45375000/jpg/_45375807_466-afp-hamas-rocket.jpg[/IMG] [editline]07:43PM[/editline] You're telling me he wouldn't notice that smoke stream? [editline]07:43PM[/editline] And judging from the stream, imagine how loud it would be.
Well you still don't know if they meant only inside the school building or including all of the school's premises, and with 400 people crowded on the school grounds, with the UN people busy helping the most they can, most probably inside the building where they can't see the sky and thus can't see if there's smoke trail or anything, so it's completely reasonable that they didn't know terrorists were firing rockets from the schoolyard.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23305267]Well you still don't know if they meant only inside the school building or including all of the school's premises, and with 400 people crowded on the school grounds, with the UN people busy helping the most they can, most probably inside the building where they can't see the sky and thus can't see if there's smoke trail or anything, so it's completely reasonable that they didn't know terrorists were firing rockets from the schoolyard.[/QUOTE] You're going to far. He wouldn't of said he's [highlight]99%[/highlight] sure there were no militants of what you said is true. He is completely sure Hamas was not in the school. You're making a whole new scenario "there might be" "It could be". Even if he didn't notice the smoke streams that last for a long time, there would be a loud noise. Like I said, you're making to many factors/ finding excuses to say he's wrong.
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