Man Killed in Grenade and Gun Attack in Manchester, UK - Polidicks

But that is only homicides, and in fact supports my original point.

I don't see how it does? [editline]14th August 2012[/editline] you said the US was less violent than the UK, the graph shows it's completely the opposite

No I said I don't agree with the notion that the efficiency in which one can commit homicide has no bearing on homicide rates. Using the example that the UK is statistically a more violent country but has a [b]significantly[/b] lower homicide rate because it's really difficult to punch/stab people to death compared to shooting them. As people tend to use the argument that "lol you can just get a knife".

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37231034]I don't see how it does? [editline]14th August 2012[/editline] you said the US was less violent than the UK, the graph shows it's completely the opposite[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=NoDachi;37228947]Again that lol-culture thing doesn't make much sense. Physical violence is far more accepted and commonplace, 6 times so, in the UK than the USA. [B]Yet less people die as a result[/B].[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;37231151]No I said I don't agree with the notion that the efficiency in which one can commit homicide has no bearing on homicide rates. Using the example that the UK is statistically a more violent country but has a [b]significantly[/b] lower homicide rate because it's really difficult to punch/stab people to death compared to shooting them. As people tend to use the argument that "lol you can just get a knife".[/QUOTE] idk the USA looks more violent to me across the board [img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/us-uk_rape.PNG[/img] (source: [url]http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf[/url] ) [editline]14th August 2012[/editline] [img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/uk-usa_assault.PNG[/img] robberies appear to be less in the USA (not sure why) [img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/uk-usa_robberies.PNG[/img]

[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;37228909]Homicide rate is 4.2 per 100,000 people per year in the US, 1.2 in the UK.[/QUOTE] That's fascinating, too bad it has nothing to do with the issue.

[QUOTE=FuzzyPoop;37232359]Yeah it really doesn't.[/QUOTE] Please explain.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;37232440]Please explain.[/QUOTE] It might, but how exactly is that the right course of action ? something you seem to be so sure of.

[QUOTE=FuzzyPoop;37232359]That's fascinating, too bad it has nothing to do with the issue.[/QUOTE] What is the issue then?

[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;37233079]What is the issue then?[/QUOTE] Shot, stabbed, or beat up, i'll classify your country as shit the same way while in the hospital, while the crime will not go away. Trying to fix a problem by restricting personal freedoms instead of attacking it's source is not a good idea, this is common fucking sense, really, and repeating yourself over and over about how the US is stupid cuz it don't ban guns hur in every shooting thread is just idiotic. Don't treat it like an ultimate, incredibly-simple-and-amazing solution, it's more complicated than that.

[QUOTE=FuzzyPoop;37234734]Shot, stabbed, or beat up, i'll classify your country as shit the same way while in the hospital, while the crime will not go away. Trying to fix a problem by restricting personal freedoms instead of attacking it's source is not a good idea, this is common fucking sense, really, and repeating yourself over and over about how the US is stupid cuz it don't ban guns hur in every shooting thread is just idiotic. Don't treat it like an ultimate, incredibly-simple-and-amazing solution, it's more complicated than that.[/QUOTE] I totally agree. As far as America goes I support gun rights, when a country has that much gun culture harsh gun control doesn't seem like it would work, but here in Britain where we've already had it long enough for gun culture to mostly disappear, it seems to be working so I don't see any reason to change it.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;37216317]I'm sorry but banning weapons severely reduces the amount of weapons produced for civilian use, the less weapons made, the less weapons find their way into criminal hands. That is why most firearm crime in the UK are the use of toys, bb guns and replicas. And those which are real firearms are either terribad old throwbacks from the IRA, or are modded legally made weapons, which for all intents and purposes are not efficient killing machines you can shoot up a school / college / cinema with. Like sawn-off shotguns.[/QUOTE] You are one of the posters on here who routinely argues for full legalization of illicit drugs right? By your logic, keeping certain drugs illegal severely reduces the amount of drugs produced for civilian and pharmaceutical use, the less drugs produced, the less drugs find their way into criminal hands and it becomes harder to produce a black market and makes drugs cost more so less people use them. If the idea that more guns being present means that homicide will automatically go up, why is it the period in American history where just about every 2nd person was armed was less violent that any society on earth today? [url]http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=803[/url] Why is it in the US most the areas with the strictest gun legislation also have the highest firearm related homicide?? I certainly don't have all the answers, but you seem to assume you do.

[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;37236814]If the idea that more guns being present means that homicide will automatically go up, why is it the period in American history where just about every 2nd person was armed was less violent that any society on earth today?[/QUOTE] Because it won't work jack shit about stopping weapons crossing statelines when you have factories pumping thousands of firearms into the streets every month. And your drug thing is too ridiculous to touch because why would drugs find their way into criminal hands for the sake of funding criminality? That is the entire point of legalising it lol.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;37238299] And your drug thing is too ridiculous to touch because why would drugs find their way into criminal hands for the sake of funding criminality? That is the entire point of legalising it lol.[/QUOTE] No it's not, it's the exact same fucking thing. If you argue that keeping drugs illegal creates a stronger black market and funds criminal activity, the exact same principle applies to firearms.

[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;37239402]No it's not, it's the exact same fucking thing. If you argue that keeping drugs illegal creates a stronger black market and funds criminal activity, the exact same principle applies to firearms.[/QUOTE] But you can make meph in a bathtube. You can't make assault rifles in the shed.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;37239506]But you can make meph in a bathtube. [B]You can't make assault rifles in the shed.[/B][/QUOTE] [url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/3170766/expedient-homemade-firearms-9mm-submachinegun-complete-instructions]Expedient Homemade Firearms: 9mm Submachine Gun[/url] [url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/31709752/Ruger-10-22-Full-Auto-Conversion]Ruger 10/22 Full Auto[Select Fire] Conversion Guide[/url] Firearms are usually piss-easy to produce if you know how to do it. You've got [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FinRqCocwGE]groups in Pakistan which produce firearms by hand.[/url]

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;37239772][url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/3170766/expedient-homemade-firearms-9mm-submachinegun-complete-instructions]Expedient Homemade Firearms: 9mm Submachine Gun[/url] [url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/31709752/Ruger-10-22-Full-Auto-Conversion]Ruger 10/22 Full Auto[Select Fire] Conversion Guide[/url] Firearms are usually piss-easy to produce if you know how to do it. You've got [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FinRqCocwGE]groups in Pakistan which produce firearms by hand.[/url][/QUOTE] Funny how I knew someone would post the pakistan thing, without realising that it operates in an autonomous region away from government control. 500,000 factory made weapons get enter the black market every year in the USA. Are you honestly suggesting a criminal syndicate can build 500,000 efficient firearms that won't explode in your face, every year and not get caught? [editline]15th August 2012[/editline] also interesting [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Firearmsources.svg/516px-Firearmsources.svg.png[/img]

I was only replying to you stating it's impossible to manufacture assault rifles in a shed. Edit: That image is also rather interesting considering people usually condemn gunshows for spawning mass-murdurers.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;37239951]I was only replying to you stating it's impossible to manufacture assault rifles in a shed.[/QUOTE] No I said you can't make assault rifles in a shed. You need more than a garden shed. None of the links you provided proved otherwise. We got what, some theorycraft on making a shitty smg, a conversion, and an entire cottage industry as examples. Are we really going to argue semantics? [editline]15th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;37239951]I was only replying to you stating it's impossible to manufacture assault rifles in a shed. Edit: That image is also rather interesting considering people usually condemn gunshows for spawning mass-murdurers.[/QUOTE] People condemn gunshows because they think they perpetuate a culture in which many people die as a result. Not that felons walk around them buying guns.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;37239506]But you can make meph in a bathtube. You can't make assault rifles in the shed.[/QUOTE] Uh fuck yes you can. If your whole point in this thread is about efficacy of murder machines, guns are shit tier. There's far more shit you can create with home materials to kill a shitload of people efficiently.

[QUOTE=Cypher_09;37215588]Our gun laws IMO are good and fine, can't be surprised that every once in a while some cunt has to do something like this. Shocking and awful, and only 15 minutes away from my home.[/QUOTE] And yet somehow this isn't a valid argument in the US for our gun laws being fine as is.

[QUOTE=Hunt3r.j2;37241922]And yet somehow this isn't a valid argument in the US for our gun laws being fine as is.[/QUOTE] I think the majority of people who are pro-gun control in their given country (and give the issue some thought) accept that guns are a part of the US's culture, and more importantly that the number of legal guns in the US would make it unsafe to make ban them. That goes both ways though - we also don't need people telling us we're suppressing our people's rights or are due for a bloodbath or murder because we have stringent laws. Different cultures, different needs, different laws.

[QUOTE=LordLoss;37215002]Shotgun regulations aren't really that strict tbh, you can give a 14 year old a shotgun as a "gift" under certain licenses.[/QUOTE] Actually that's an air rifle. You could still kill someone with it though

be murrikan lovin' dis freedom yo *clutches tantal* [editline]14th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=NoDachi;37239841]Funny how I knew someone would post the pakistan thing, without realising that it operates in an autonomous region away from government control. 500,000 factory made weapons get enter the black market every year in the USA. Are you honestly suggesting a criminal syndicate can build 500,000 efficient firearms that won't explode in your face, every year and not get caught? [editline]15th August 2012[/editline] also interesting [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Firearmsources.svg/516px-Firearmsources.svg.png[/img][/QUOTE] i guess america should make it mandatory to have a gun safe honestly i love guns and i am an avid gun collector, but our shit is too loose in some places, and too strict in others. i'd say axe the F part of the ATF, create a new bureau for firearms only, put them in charge of licensing and background checks, make a mandatory military-run and strict as fuck training course hosted by the CMP (free or not, it seems like the way to go. i'd gladly pay 100 bones for some good training.). that might create a distinction between the lawful, responsible hobbyist/history buff, and the fuck who wants to get a glock because he's angry at someone. upon completion of the training course (should take about a few weeks, with classes four days a week that can be skipped and drawn out if you don't have time. possibly classes on the weekends would be better, but idk) you are free to buy any number of any kind of weapon (yes, full-auto ahoy!) as long as you have a safe to keep all that shit in. switzerland's got it down, we should just copy them if it doesnt work.

[QUOTE=Jimbojib;37242583]Actually that's an air rifle. You could still kill someone with it though[/QUOTE] No you actually can give a 14 year old a shotgun but they also need a shotgun certificate and to get that you normally need a document to show you can safely use it and what you itend to do. Also most shotguns are the ones you need to break to load them and the semi auto ones have had their magazine crimped so only 3 shells can go in. The government accept that mental people will eventually get a gun so they just need to minimise the amount of damage he can cause