Bin Laden message warns France to pull out of Afghanistan - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;27579875]Well actually we are but it's pretty disproportionate[/QUOTE] No you're not. 2000+ coalition deaths versus 12,000 civilian deaths versus 1,200 taliban deaths (In ratio form) is not winning.

[QUOTE=DireAvenger;27579950]No you're not. 2000+ coalition deaths versus 12,000 civilian deaths versus 1,200 taliban deaths (In ratio form) is not winning.[/QUOTE] [img]http://gyazo.com/ab43bf298d1c73dbd9e73bfc397376e4.png[/img] yes we are [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] casualties wise anyway, no way we can know wounded i guess

[QUOTE=GarrysMod;27577475]And when was the last war they won?[/QUOTE] About the same as America, actually. Except they've been involved in Africa a hell of a lot more. [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Tetracycline;27579982][img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/ab43bf298d1c73dbd9e73bfc397376e4.png[/img_thumb] yes we are [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] casualties wise anyway, no way we can know wounded i guess[/QUOTE] Considering the objective, of installing a successful pro-west government, not going so well. Huge tensions regarding Karzai.

[QUOTE=Contag;27579992]About the same as America, actually. Except they've been involved in Africa a hell of a lot more. [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] Considering the objective, of installing a successful pro-west government, not going so well. Huge tensions regarding Karzai.[/QUOTE] Yeah, we tried to fix a region that just...cannot be fixed I guess

they should pull out. not because of bin ladens threats but because the afghanistan war is a huge waste of resources and human life

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;27579982][img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/ab43bf298d1c73dbd9e73bfc397376e4.png[/img_thumb] yes we are [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] casualties wise anyway, no way we can know wounded i guess[/QUOTE] Killing heaps of enemy combatants and not focusing on anything else is kinda what they did in Vietnam. Of course regardless, the war in Afghanistan is going pretty well. The only resistance they are putting up are random and sporadic attacks coupled with a few IEDs. They barely even have the support of the people (if they ever did). Some locals are still scared of them obviously but the war in general isn't teetering on the edge. [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Tetracycline;27580014]Yeah, we tried to fix a region that just...cannot be fixed I guess[/QUOTE] Nah, Afghanistan was pretty cool once upon a time. Bring in heaps of mining corporations to get the cash flowing and build them to have a half decent infrastructure. Should bring in a form of stability. One place they could help them is to establish a constitution making it more difficult for Karzai's tribe to take power and fuck over everyone else. Equal rights for each tribe guaranteed by law, would be nice.

Of course the US is winning militarily, you've got $500,000 Hellfire missiles being fired from UAV's operated 200kms away.

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;27579843]What are they known for surrendering to anyway[/QUOTE] - Quasi-War (French pirates) - Third Crusade - WWI - WWII (They did get pummeled, though) - Some war with/in Algeria (I think)

[QUOTE=TAU!;27580109]- Quasi-War (French pirates) - Third Crusade - WWI - WWII (They did get pummeled, though) - Some war with/in Algeria (I think)[/QUOTE] -The Quasi-war was just belligerence. It was around the time of Napoleon too so that engagement not going well is made up for by the wons they won at that time. -The Third Crusade was due to the French duke getting pissed off with Richard and not committing to the alliance any more. No surrender, just saying fuck it. -In WW1, the French with British help stopped the German advance. It was after all the fighting that they finally drove the Germans back and made the Germans surrender. -In WW2, with the Vichy regime forming an armistice with the Germans and allowing them to occupy northern France, that's the closest to surrender in their history. They were however completely fucked over by infighting and had almost no military. They formed the agreement after a fair amount of fighting and did fell just as every other country around German did. -Algeria was one of their colonies, it was obvious that they wouldn't be able to hold onto it in the modern world. If every colony loss for Britain was considered a surrender they would have surrendered to half the world.

[QUOTE=TAU!;27580109] - WWI [/QUOTE] Um, no.

Jeez, does that guy really think he has any leverage over world government? He can send angry letters all he wants. And this is no longer a real war, no disrespect to the soldiers there, but this is just sporadic guerilla fighting. It's what lead up to the end of Vietnam. All the Taliban are doing is planting landmines and firing the occasional RPG into the airbases. I wish they'd all come out and get mowed down already so we could fix the country and go home.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27578039]Or else what? They'll slap you across the face with a white flag?[/QUOTE]No, they'll commit to a nuclear war. [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4627862.stm[/url] Seriously, has everyone forgotten about Napoleon? The centuries before that where France was one of the most formidable powers in existence? Or the First World War, even. All this surrender shit is getting stale, like that fucking cake joke. It only seemed to start after they refused to take part in the Iraq War, anyway.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;27580032]they should pull out. not because of bin ladens threats but because the afghanistan war is a huge waste of resources and human life[/QUOTE] I'll say this one thing and one thing only just so we don't have an another bullheaded argument. You have no idea how war works, you expect it to be as snimple as pulling out, wrong, that will be seen as a sign of weakness and it will prompt further attacks on US soil, fuck they've been trying hard enough anyway. It's not that simple, you're forgetting the clear reactions of the taliban and al queda, they will see it as a victory, it will empower them and they'll rush back into attacks on the coalition nations.

This is still ridiculously depressing. 300,000 dead Asians/Africans/Haitians = A Statistic 2 Whites = The end of the fucking world

[QUOTE=Turtlecake;27581076]This is still ridiculously depressing. 300,000 dead Asians/Africans/Haitians = A Statistic 2 Whites = The end of the fucking world[/QUOTE] Nice slant you spotted, shame it ain't there. Africans and Haitians are in such a shitty way that reporting their deaths are redundant, it's expected now, whereas two french journos getting kidnapped is quite a rare occurence.

[QUOTE=bravehat;27580944]I'll say this one thing and one thing only just so we don't have an another bullheaded argument. You have no idea how war works, you expect it to be as snimple as pulling out, wrong, that will be seen as a sign of weakness and it will prompt further attacks on US soil, fuck they've been trying hard enough anyway. It's not that simple, you're forgetting the clear reactions of the taliban and al queda, they will see it as a victory, it will empower them and they'll rush back into attacks on the coalition nations.[/QUOTE] it is that simple. taliban and al qaeda are no threat to any developed nation. if they could attack they would attack. staying there does nothing you can't defeat these people dammit didn't anyone learn anything from vietnam???

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;27581454]it is that simple. taliban and al qaeda are no threat to any developed nation. if they could attack they would attack. staying there does nothing you can't defeat these people dammit didn't anyone learn anything from vietnam???[/QUOTE] If you do not eliminate the threat and prevent them from having a safe refuge where they can consolidate their power and be able to attack a foreign power, they will come back. This is different because the only reason they were allowed to become so powerful was that the Afghan government couldn't secure those areas and they flourished in the anarchy. If you take away their ability to operate in peace, they cannot do anything.

Yeah people learned from Vietnam, but throughout history when you fight these war and begin leaving the nation early they begin to spread out again. It's not that fucking simple, you can't just up and leave, it leaves a power vacuum and an overwhelming desire for vengeance from the extremists, that's why you have to stay, you have to find the cancer and cut it out or else it grows and spreads. And no threat to a developed nation? Is that why over 2000 people died on 9/11, is that why an entire train full of people got maimed and killed as well as a couple of buses full of people got killed on 7/7 as well?

[QUOTE=bravehat;27581110]Nice slant you spotted, shame it ain't there. Africans and Haitians are in such a shitty way that reporting their deaths are redundant, it's expected now, whereas two french journos getting kidnapped is quite a rare occurence.[/QUOTE] That doesn't make them any less human, They were born into that situation and cannot escape it without some sort of large external force to lift them out of the poverty that consumes them. The media brainwashes people in a way where psuedo-racism is the norm and that numbers on your screen are nothing more than numbers, though if something is of remote national interest then everyone will talk about it like the end of the world. Just yesterday I was watching the news, and the stories were nothing more than the kidnapping of some upper class white girl which lasted for for 3 hours, then a tiny 30 second snippet of the flooding in Brazil and Australia (which killed thousands), then it goes back to the usual rhetoric. [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] By the way people, the war is meaningless. Wikileaks showed that 60% of the deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan were innocent civilians "being in the way" of fire. It's a joke, and the only people who benefit from it is the Contractors. Most of them fight back because they [i]actually[/i] believe the west is there to take over the country. Surveys showed that more than 95% of the people living there have literally no clue why our militaries are invading, or had no clue that 9/11 ever even happened.

Cry some more, or make your own news network dedicated to plastering the TV with the downtrodden. And I'd like a source on those figures, or else that is 100% bullshit :smug: And yeah dude, a lot of civilians will die when the enemy hides amongst them it's called collateral damage and shit happens, you want to feel every death of every person everywhere in the world, go ahead, because honestly it is unfathomable the amount of fuck I cannot give for this.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;27581454]it is that simple. taliban and al qaeda are no threat to any developed nation. if they could attack they would attack. staying there does nothing you can't defeat these people dammit didn't anyone learn anything from vietnam???[/QUOTE] No, it ISN'T that simple. bravehat's completely right - not only will pulling out be seen as a sign of weakness and embolden terrorist groups across the globe, it'll also consolidate the taliban's stranglehold over afghanistan. This is not a viable option. The most realistic ideal is for the Allied forces to help strengthen Afghanistan to the point where it can stand against an insurgency on its own. As for your points - the Taliban and Al Qaeda are threats to a developed nation. It's called terrorism - e.g. 9/11, Bali Bombings, every single attempted/successful terrorist attack on Western soil in the past few years. They can attack and they do attack. Consequently, they must be weakened to the point of defeat or irrelevancy. [QUOTE=Turtlecake;27581584]That doesn't make them any less human, They were born into that situation and cannot escape it without some sort of large external force to lift them out of the poverty that consumes them. The media brainwashes people in a way where psuedo-racism is the norm and that numbers on your screen are nothing more than numbers, though if something is of remote national interest then everyone will talk about it like the end of the world. Just yesterday I was watching the news, and the stories were nothing more than the kidnapping of some upper class white girl which lasted for for 3 hours, then a tiny 30 second snippet of the flooding in Brazil and Australia (which killed thousands), then it goes back to the usual rhetoric. [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] By the way people, the war is meaningless. Wikileaks showed that 60% of the deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan were innocent civilians "being in the way" of fire. It's a joke, and the only people who benefit from it is the Contractors. Most of them fight back because they [i]actually[/i] believe the west is there to take over the country. Surveys showed that more than 95% of the people living there have literally no clue why our militaries are invading, or had no clue that 9/11 ever even happened.[/QUOTE] It's got nothing to do with racism, merely a jaded callousness due to familiarity if anything. People expect these sorts of things to happen in the less developed nations, because that's what happens. They don't expect it in their own turf - hence, more attention paid. Quote the statistic and the context. The belief that the Iraqi/Afghanistan citizens, despite being in very different situations, hate the West is wrong.

[QUOTE=Turtlecake;27581584]That doesn't make them any less human, They were born into that situation and cannot escape it without some sort of large external force to lift them out of the poverty that consumes them. The media brainwashes people in a way where psuedo-racism is the norm and that numbers on your screen are nothing more than numbers, though if something is of remote national interest then everyone will talk about it like the end of the world. Just yesterday I was watching the news, and the stories were nothing more than the kidnapping of some upper class white girl which lasted for for 3 hours, then a tiny 30 second snippet of the flooding in Brazil and Australia (which killed thousands), then it goes back to the usual rhetoric.[/quote] Ya herp a derp, think people want to hear about random people in some other country? It may be an even bigger tragedy but it's not as interesting as news close to home. People are only really interested in people who are like them. Don't like it, have a sook about the world being unfair. [quote]By the way people, the war is meaningless. Wikileaks showed that 60% of the deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan were innocent civilians "being in the way" of fire. It's a joke, and the only people who benefit from it is the Contractors. Most of them fight back because they [i]actually[/i] believe the west is there to take over the country. Surveys showed that more than 95% of the people living there have literally no clue why our militaries are invading, or had no clue that 9/11 ever even happened.[/QUOTE] [Citation needed] Seriously though. the people there understand a bit of what is going on and coalition forces aren't too stupid to ignore the information war. The ones that can actually read know enough and the ones who can't hear it from others. They don't hate us as much as it seems, plenty of them are just scared of what the Taliban will do to them if they cooperate with Coalition forces though. Also "getting in the way" isn't a bad thing, what would you rather they were killed by? Deliberate shooting of civilians or accidental shooting while they were already engaged?

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;27581454]it is that simple. taliban and al qaeda are no threat to any developed nation. if they could attack they would attack. staying there does nothing you can't defeat these people dammit didn't anyone learn anything from vietnam???[/QUOTE] Try telling the families of the victims of 9/11 and 7/7 bombings that they can't and don't attack.

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;27581712]No, it ISN'T that simple. bravehat's completely right - not only will pulling out be seen as a sign of weakness and embolden terrorist groups across the globe, it'll also consolidate the taliban's stranglehold over afghanistan. This is not a viable option. The most realistic ideal is for the Allied forces to help strengthen Afghanistan to the point where it can stand against an insurgency on its own. [/QUOTE] Replace Afghanistan with Vietnam and terrorists with communists and try reading that again. Has Vietnam done anything like that since the end of the Vietnam war? [editline]22nd January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Jon27;27587410]Try telling the families of the victims of 9/11 and 7/7 bombings that they can't and don't attack.[/QUOTE] They can go attack on their own. The rest of us won't give a fuck.

France, maybe it is time to rearm those cold war nuke silos. Collateral damage will happen. But nations like Iran and other countries supported or controlled by terrorist organizations brought this on themselves. Also, thumbs up to the people revolting against the dictators in Africa and the middle east. Sacrifices were made, and the people are dieing, in the end the fascist dictators like Ahmadinejad will be hung high and dry to rot. Anyone think NATO should support a rebellion in Iran like the USSR supported North Vietnam and NK years ago? Not actually going to fight directly, but secretly supplying arms. War with Iran is suicide. Revolution from the inside cannot be stopped thanks to strength in numbers, the fascists Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei would be crazy to commit a genocide upon the entire nations population. Ahmadinejad, and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei must die. 74,700,000 estimated people whom hate Iran's government VS a small army of brainwashed Islamic extremists Millions of lives at stake Some will live, Most will die.

Send a nuke down there and the fuckers will beg for mercy.

Just realized how crazy that post sounds, but it gets like that when you have a Facebook friend in Iran who logs in to FB to say he is going to a protest, and then hasnt posted anything new or logged on in 2 years. Ahmadinejad, and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei must die. Kill their nuke scientists. Kill their politicians. Kill all who stand in the way of the people Kill all who speak for the fascists.

bin laden is like, SO last decade

[QUOTE=TAU!;27579544]Not everyone here is taught that or actually reads into it though. No one likes France anymore :([/QUOTE] Everyone in America is taught a handful of bulletproof badass farmers destroyed the whole British army and killed King George. In Britain, we were taught that the French alone saved the Continentals' asses.

Bin Laden please do something awesome again, fly a plane into the Eiffel tower or some shit. Just make sure you got someone to record it!