• SecDef Leon Panetta to release new 'drone pilot medal.' Outranks Bronze Star with Combat Valor
    52 replies, posted
I guess it could be as equal as the Bronze Star, what with them being given out like they're nothing these days. 7,000 were given to the 101st for WW2 38,000 were given in the Iraq War, almost 700 in Grenada. So I'd say it's on par with its precedence
[QUOTE=Ridge;39581092]I recall reading an article about how hard the drone pilots have it. They can be stuck in their shack for up to 18 hours on intense missions, with others bringing them hot meals from the chow hall. They are starting to get PTSD from pulling that trigger button from 12,000 miles away. It's fucking pathetic.[/QUOTE] My job has me in a sealed atmosphere underwater for months at a time. Drone pilots sounds like the ultimate wusses.
[QUOTE=Ridge;39581092]I recall reading an article about how hard the drone pilots have it. They can be stuck in their shack for up to 18 hours on intense missions, with others bringing them hot meals from the chow hall. They are starting to get PTSD from pulling that trigger button from 12,000 miles away. It's fucking pathetic.[/QUOTE] Have you done their job? How can you call them pathetic when you're commenting on something you've never even experienced? An incredible amount of responsibility weighs on their shoulders. There's absolutely no way for any of us to imagine what they go through on a daily basis. It's not fair to bring up their distance from their target; they still have to deal with the consequences of pulling the trigger. Distance doesn't change the reality of what they do. [editline]14th February 2013[/editline] Let's also keep in mind that this medal is not being awarded to all drone pilots. This is a special medal given when extremely important targets are taken out at extremely critical times. [quote]“Our military reserves its highest decorations obviously for those who display gallantry and valor in actions when their lives are on the line and we will continue to do so,” Panetta said. “But we should also have the ability to honor the extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations,” Panetta said. “The contribution they make does contribute to the success of combat operations, particularly when they remove the enemy from the field of battle, even if those actions are physically removed from the fight.”[/quote]
The drones should get medals.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;39584322]by that logic we should we give out higher ranked food medals for feeding our soldiers which is essential for their battle readiness and morale, higher ranked ammo medal for logistics which is essential to fight in the first place, and etc. the entire point of bronze medals and others is to exemplify heroism and risks soldiers take to save each other's lives or complete the objective at the risk of their life do drone pilots deserve a high ranked medal? sure, but outranking bronze stars? absurd[/QUOTE] By that logic we could say if superman was a soldier, even if he was the best damn one there he wouldnt get any high ranking medals because he cant die by normal means. The whole point of the medals is being excellent at your service with the exception of the medal of honor which is risking your life. The whole "well they cant be shot lol" is retarded because the whole damn point of the medal is being efficient at doing your mission and being quick and decisive under pressure. You dont gain valor by almost dying, you get it through your actions.
i might be wrong, but isnt PTSD or PTSD-like symptoms really common among drone pilots? the combination of essentially being in war then switching back to home life after every shift, plus the fact that they might be ordered to kill someone after spending weeks watching them, memorizing routines and seeing them with family, seems to make it a really distressing job also, drone pilots give info that would help save the lives of soldiers out in the feild, so i'd say theyre pretty important, despite the fact that they dont physically see combat. and like rilez said, not every pilot is getting the medal. most probably do an average job at flying the things, so an exceptional drone pilot probably deserves to have an award higher than that of a soldier of the field
This is horse shit. There is nothing courageous, risky, or honorable about sitting in an air-conditioned trailer on a US military base and pushing buttons to kill people who can't shoot back.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;39587582]This is horse shit. There is nothing courageous, risky, or honorable about sitting in an air-conditioned trailer on a US military base and pushing buttons to kill people who can't shoot back.[/QUOTE] There is still a massive mental effect on the pilot. As the post dir-fucking-rectly above you states, they watch people for days on end, learning things about them your average footsoldier can't even begin to imagine. Things snipers don't even see when stalking a target. Drone pilots see everything about their target. And then have to end their lives if the call is made. That would hit a man pretty hard. Even if you know your target is the enemy, you've learned a lot about a single person, who they see, their personal life, just to take it away, and go home to your family, who won't be able to give you and support other than kind words. At least a footsoldier has other soldiers and such to talk to after ending lives.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;39584748]My job has me in a sealed atmosphere underwater for months at a time. Drone pilots sounds like the ultimate wusses.[/QUOTE] I want to know what your job is.
[QUOTE=Lolx0rz;39591392]I want to know what your job is.[/QUOTE] submariner probs
[QUOTE=hexpunK;39591178]There is still a massive mental effect on the pilot. As the post dir-fucking-rectly above you states, they watch people for days on end, learning things about them your average footsoldier can't even begin to imagine. Things snipers don't even see when stalking a target. Drone pilots see everything about their target. And then have to end their lives if the call is made. That would hit a man pretty hard. Even if you know your target is the enemy, you've learned a lot about a single person, who they see, their personal life, just to take it away, and go home to your family, who won't be able to give you and support other than kind words. At least a footsoldier has other soldiers and such to talk to after ending lives.[/QUOTE] Yes, the job sucks, but they are not being SHOT AT. And watching their friends get shot next to them while carrying a hundred pound pack in 120 degree weather in the desert at the ass end of nowhere. Yes, I'm sure it sucks but there is no valor in what they do whatsoever. Bronze Stars are for people who actually have to risk their lives. Drone operators have the safest jobs in the entire US military.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;39592614]Yes, the job sucks, but they are not being SHOT AT. And watching their friends get shot next to them while carrying a hundred pound pack in 120 degree weather in the desert at the ass end of nowhere. Yes, I'm sure it sucks but there is no valor in what they do whatsoever. Bronze Stars are for people who actually have to risk their lives. Drone operators have the safest jobs in the entire US military.[/QUOTE] Do surgeons, strike pilots, generals, and intelligence analysts never get medals or awards, just because they're at little to no risk from a bunch of insurgents? Here I thought medals reflect service to the country and contribution to the military effort, not a badge to show you got shot at and lived.
[QUOTE=catbarf;39592732]Do surgeons, pilots, generals, and intelligence analysts never get medals or awards, just because they're at no risk from a bunch of insurgents? Here I thought medals reflect service to the country and contribution to the military effort, not a badge to show you got shot at and lived.[/QUOTE] You know in a actual war command and hospitals are targets, albeit the latter target a bad target. Plus they directly save lives with their hands and treat the wounded.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39580853]wiki[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don't_abbreviate_Wikipedia_as_Wiki[/url] :eng101:
[QUOTE=laserguided;39592745]You know in a actual war command and hospitals are targets, albeit the latter target a bad target.[/QUOTE] How often have high ranking generals and analysts in Washington been attacked in the last decade? My point is only that the idea that military awards are closely tied to personal risk is just not accurate. They're not badges to show how tough you are or how many times you got shot at and lived, or as a metric to measure psychological scarring. They show and reward service to the country above and beyond what is expected. An infantryman who puts himself at risk to aid his squad can earn an award. An analyst who spends weeks working around the clock to find the location of an enemy commander can earn an award. An officer who skillfully deploys and leads his troops can earn an award. There are many jobs critical to the success of a military operation, where one individual giving it his all can make a significant difference. Not all of them necessarily involve personal risk. All of them deserve recognition, not a snide and condescending comment along the lines of 'oh you didn't get shot at so your work doesn't matter'.
[QUOTE=Ridge;39583047]Difference being the surgeon is right there in the guy's face. The average soldier is right there in the guy's face. The drone pilot is looking through a camera 25,000 feet above the target. There is no feedback to deal with. No aftermath. He sees the explosion on screen, but it's just pixels. It's nowhere near the same thing as someone dying in your arms.[/QUOTE] This is ridiculous. Those pixels are real human beings; regardless of the medium in which you view the battlefield, these people are still completely aware of their actions. In the way drone strikes work, the pilot has the final say on launching a missile or not. Now, imagine the pilot judging a situation and determining to strike what he believes is a target. Then he goes home, later to find out that instead of bombing some terrorist, he's just killed a completely innocent family. Imagine the weight of his decision bearing down on him how the mistake he made just cost the lives of innocent children. Then you wake up and go to work and are faced with that decision every time you pull the trigger. That kind of thing is devastating to a person. It doesn't matter if all he sees are black and white images of explosion; it's the knowledge that behind those cameras, he, and he alone, took the life of another human being. PTSD isn't exclusive to soldiers on the field. What a ridiculously naive and disrespectful opinion.
[QUOTE=Ridge;39581092]I recall reading an article about how hard the drone pilots have it. They can be stuck in their shack for up to 18 hours on intense missions, with others bringing them hot meals from the chow hall. They are starting to get PTSD from pulling that trigger button from 12,000 miles away. It's fucking pathetic.[/QUOTE] Actually apparently one of the biggest PTSD reasons for drone pilots is the fact they aren't physically in the theater and have to switch between combat mode and I am home mode relatively often. And essentially this near schizophrenic state creates a lot of those issues since they're basically going from I just killed 20 people to I hi kids I'm home now in the course of a few hours.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;39587582]This is horse shit. There is nothing courageous, risky, or honorable about sitting in an air-conditioned trailer on a US military base and pushing buttons to kill people who can't shoot back.[/QUOTE] Is there that much difference from being a sniper, then?
I think we should stop giving medals to soldiers who use guns. It's more honourable and risky and courageous to perform the objectives using no tools, but just killing with their bare hands. With a gun, theres just a little recoil, no feedback. The person he just killed is just a blur in the distance.
[QUOTE=Ridge;39583047]Difference being the surgeon is right there in the guy's face. The average soldier is right there in the guy's face. The drone pilot is looking through a camera 25,000 feet above the target. There is no feedback to deal with. No aftermath. He sees the explosion on screen, but it's just pixels. It's nowhere near the same thing as someone dying in your arms.[/QUOTE] (NSFW) [url=http://www.uruknet.info/uruknet-images/beirut4.jpg]This is just pixels,[/url] so it shouldn't bother you, right? How if it was someone trusting and relying on you to help them get through whatever situation you're in, and they're dead or crippled because you missed something? You'd have to be one heartless cunt to be affected by what's happening to other people even if you're not "there".
[QUOTE=Rents;39597980](NSFW) [url=http://www.uruknet.info/uruknet-images/beirut4.jpg]This is just pixels,[/url] so it shouldn't bother you, right? How if it was someone trusting and relying on you to help them get through whatever situation you're in, and they're dead or crippled because you missed something? You'd have to be one heartless cunt to be affected by what's happening to other people even if you're not "there".[/QUOTE] Have you seen how shitty drone feeds are?
This is dumb. Don't get me wrong, the work that drone pilots do is extremely important, but there is no way that pulling a trigger on a joystick from thousands of miles away is above or even fucking [i]comparable[/i] to being in the field and getting your ass shot at. I think they should move the medal down either one or two steps in order of precedence. This would put it between the Bronze Star and Purple Heart for one step and between the Purple Heart and Defense Meritorious Service medal for two steps.
[QUOTE=Crimor;39598014]Have you seen how shitty drone feeds are?[/QUOTE] They make the feeds shitty for a reason when they become declassified. [editline]15FEB2013[/editline] Real-time feeds are good enough to establish PID off of a single individual. To clear things up, yes, you can see some pretty horrific stuff from the real-time feeds in high-res. I know a lot of you don't care but, I've seen people (enemy militants) suffer with missing limbs, from a direct round that should have killed them. Then we have to hit him again to end their suffering. Not because we wanted to, but because we all have emotions toward that individual.
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