[QUOTE=ultra_bright;38725283]something like this
[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/George-Eastman-House%3DExterior.JPG[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
That's a mansion, not a "nice house"
[img]http://www.eplans.com/house-plans/media/import/WebArt/common/plans/images/GRL0/GRL207/GRL207-FR-PH-CO-MD.JPG[/img]
that's more like a "nice house". You can probably afford that on a family income of like 100-150k, give or take, and varying greatly on where you live.
[QUOTE=Lazor;38724858]yeah, i certainly can't think of any problems the financial elite caused
2008? what happened then?
:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
The 2007-08 financial crisis was not caused by the financial elite.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;38725511]That's a mansion, not a "nice house"
[img]http://www.eplans.com/house-plans/media/import/WebArt/common/plans/images/GRL0/GRL207/GRL207-FR-PH-CO-MD.JPG[/img]
that's more like a "nice house". You can probably afford that on a family income of like 100-150k, give or take, and varying greatly on where you live.[/QUOTE]
Oh...well Im used to living in big houses like that. Also, my uncle has a mansion that looks almost exactly like the one I posted and I used to spend a lot of time there as a kid so I just thought of it as a house
Instead we should let the rich people watch from their islands as the poor and middle class collapse because theyd rather take their fortunes with them to their grave
[QUOTE=_Chewgum;38723479]kinda funny how usa punishes the rich for problems they didn't cause[/QUOTE]
If rich people aren't paying enough taxes, they are causing problems just by being rich
[QUOTE=_Chewgum;38723479]kinda funny how usa punishes the rich for problems they didn't cause[/QUOTE]
I hope this is a pathetic attempt at sarcasm.
Warren fucking Buffet pays a lower tax rate than my dad and he has to pay 36%-38% for an income of roughly 30,000.
The rich need to pay their god damn taxes, and they need to pay their fucking fair share.
Also this was a fucking stupid thing for treasury secretary to say.
Now if we do go over the fiscal cliff, Republicans can blame the Democrats and say "See? They said they'd do it and they did."
[QUOTE=dialogical;38725569]The 2007-08 financial crisis was not caused by the financial elite.[/QUOTE]
i thought that whole sub-prime loan debacle was entirely their fault
I am not against raising taxes, BUT...
Shouldn't the country be concerned about managing its money first before increasing taxes? If it can't spend it's money wisely right now, what is to say a tax increase is an answer, even if it is on the rich?
[QUOTE=Siminov;38725966]I am not against raising taxes, BUT...
Shouldn't the country be concerned about managing its money first before increasing taxes? If it can't spend it's money wisely right now, what is to say a tax increase is an answer, even if it is on the rich?[/QUOTE]
it can't manage its money because the Republicans made sure it didn't fucking have any
Have you not heard of fucking EVERYTHING public sector getting gutted like a fish since the Bush administration? Especially schools. Republicans want to get rid of everything public sector because they feel like it's the poor people "stealing" all of the rich people's "hard earned" money.
They would love to privatize everything. So they can get their friends to run it.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;38725989]it can't manage its money because the Republicans made sure it didn't fucking have any
Have you not heard of fucking EVERYTHING public sector getting gutted like a fish since the Bush administration? Especially schools. Republicans want to get rid of everything public sector because they feel like it's the poor people "stealing" all of the rich people's "hard earned" money.[/QUOTE]
A lot of it isn't that, I lot of republicans like the idea of local communities having more control rather than the government. I know this because I'm from one of many small rural towns that don't have much money. There are a lot more to the bi-partisanship than money.
Also, putting quotes around "hard earned" is dumb because a lot of people work extremely hard t get wealthy.
[QUOTE=_Chewgum;38723479]kinda funny how usa punishes the rich for problems they didn't cause[/QUOTE]
why is this getting rated dumb so much? he has a point.
[QUOTE=Javascript;38726233]why is this getting rated dumb so much? he has a point.[/QUOTE]
It's the current scapegoat. There are a lot of stereotypical fat-cat don't-give-a-fuck about anyone rich people, but there are also a lot of wealthy people who have done a lot for society, whether it be starting awesome companies or contribute a ton of work in a scientific of social field.
Imagine going to med school for 8 years, studying your brains out and spending hours and hours learning how to help people, then spending years paying off loans (considering you worked hard enough to get a job). Now you finally roll in the $$$. Then you walk down the street and run into a 99% protest and people indirectly are shitting all over your type of people for being in the 1%. People who necessarily didn't work as hard as you or feel like they are entitled to as much money.
[QUOTE=Javascript;38726233]why is this getting rated dumb so much? he has a point.[/QUOTE]No, he doesn't, he made a stupid comment and he is getting rated accordingly.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;38726249]It's the current scapegoat. There are a lot of stereotypical fat-cat don't-give-a-fuck about anyone rich people, but there are also a lot of wealthy people who have done a lot for society, whether it be starting awesome companies or contribute a ton of work in a scientific of social field.
Imagine going to med school for 8 years, studying your brains out and spending hours and hours learning how to help people, then spending years paying off loans (considering you worked hard enough to get a job). Now you finally roll in the $$$. Then you walk down the street and run into a 99% protest and people indirectly are shitting all over your type of people for being in the 1%. People who necessarily didn't work as hard as you or feel like they are entitled to as much money.[/QUOTE]
If they're such nice people, then I'm sure that they understand that America needs money, and that gradually closing the gap between the rich and the poor is a kind act that will go towards making many lives happier and easier. Isn't selflessly giving to others exactly why we donate to charity in the first place?
[QUOTE=Cone;38726443]If they're such nice people, then I'm sure that they understand that America needs money, and that gradually closing the gap between the rich and the poor is a kind act that will go towards making many lives happier and easier. Isn't selflessly giving to others exactly why we donate to charity in the first place?[/QUOTE]
That's the thing - the selfish acts of few creates restrictions for the masses. I think there's no shame in having a large amount of land - fancy car - boat, whatever, but if you own several islands, 3 houses 4 Ferraris, and barely give to charity or anything.... well.. yeah. Might be an exaggeration. but I agree with you
[QUOTE=Glitchman;38726249]It's the current scapegoat. There are a lot of stereotypical fat-cat don't-give-a-fuck about anyone rich people, but there are also a lot of wealthy people who have done a lot for society, whether it be starting awesome companies or contribute a ton of work in a scientific of social field.
Imagine going to med school for 8 years, studying your brains out and spending hours and hours learning how to help people, then spending years paying off loans (considering you worked hard enough to get a job). Now you finally roll in the $$$. Then you walk down the street and run into a 99% protest and people indirectly are shitting all over your type of people for being in the 1%. People who necessarily didn't work as hard as you or feel like they are entitled to as much money.[/QUOTE]
And whom exactly do these medical students who become big have to also thank for making it big? Public education for one that actually let them attend a good college, government student loan rather than a predatory corporate one, a safe environment thanks to public funded police & fire departments, and etc. It's called giving back to the community, you're living in a community, and when you're part of the community, you've got to give back to make sure others can become successful as you. We're not fucking gutting them and bleeding them dry to the point they can't afford good houses, we're taking a bit more cause they can afford to so the community overall can succeed.
And the 99% protest isn't against the rich people overall, it's the rich people overall who hasn't faced shit consequences from the economic crisis they helped create all the while taking our bailout money while the people suffers, that's the entire point of the protests, to make sure rich people aren't immune to the law.
Not to mention, even implying that workers like coal miners who works their asses off in death traps, endangering their health by working such dangerous areas doesn't work necessarily as hard as anyone else is pretty much dumb.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;38726499]
Not to mention, even implying that workers like coal miners who works their asses off in death traps, endangering their health by working such dangerous areas doesn't work necessarily as hard as anyone else is pretty much dumb.[/QUOTE]
What would inspire someone to take the time and education to have a higher level career if you could just be a coal miner or landscaper / fast food worker and make a decent amount of money?
Unless you say the satisfaction of having a more comfortable and satisfying job is worth "money"
[QUOTE=Glitchman;38726527]What would inspire someone to take the time and education to have a higher level career if you could just be a coal miner or landscaper / fast food worker and make a decent amount of money?
Unless you say the satisfaction of having a more comfortable and satisfying job[/QUOTE]
Uh, cause being a coal miner, landscaper, and fast food worker is a shit job nobody wants to do? People who takes these jobs aren't people that are lazy, they're desperate people taking them because they feel they're out of options with increasing tuition rates, childrens to feed, cost of living increasing, and etc.
Are you [B]REALLY[/B] implying these people should make shit unaffordable wage just to make sure younger people have aspiration ( which they already do by the way, no one in their right mind think "IM GOING TO BE A MCDONALDS WORKER WHEN I GROW UP!" when they're attending high school) to not take shit jobs?
[QUOTE=_Chewgum;38723599]are the rich spending a bunch of printed money? no
i'm all for the rich paying a bit more tax, but just because they have money doesn't mean they have some duty to give it away. It's like me coming into your house and taking your food because you have a lot.
and your comparison to murders is just dumb kiddie shit[/QUOTE]
No. It'd be like me having 500 pounds/kilos of food coming to me every paycheck and taking some and giving it to people who actually have a use for it.
[QUOTE=Javascript;38726233]why is this getting rated dumb so much? he has a point.[/QUOTE]
Because the cost of living is a constant value, and the money to run a country has to come from somewhere. Don't you think it should come from the people who it means the least to?
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;38726554]Uh, cause being a coal miner, landscaper, and fast food worker is a shit job nobody wants to do? People who takes these jobs aren't people that are lazy, they're desperate people taking them because they feel they're out of options with increasing tuition rates, childrens to feed, cost of living increasing, and etc.
Are you [B]REALLY[/B] implying these people should make shit unaffordable wage just to make sure younger people have aspiration ( which they already do by the way, no one in their right mind think "IM GOING TO BE A MCDONALDS WORKER WHEN I GROW UP!" when they're attending high school) to not take shit jobs?[/QUOTE]
I actually know tons of people who are unhappy with their shit job, but are too lazy or unmotivated to do anything about it. They could be looking harder, applying to more jobs, tightening resumes and getting more experience, but rather they are just like "fuck my life my jobs sucks but I gotta pay bills and its not worth it anyways". I would even say these people aren't strong. And this isn't just limited to a few cases I know - it's a trend that is setting off everywhere. I know, I've been there. Taking jobs you don't like, while pushing yourself to do more after work even though you only get 4 hours of sleep was my ticket into a nice job.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;38726600]I actually know tons of people who are unhappy with their shit job, but are too lazy or unmotivated to do anything about it. They could be looking harder, applying to more jobs, tightening resumes and getting more experience, but rather they are just like "fuck my life my jobs sucks but I gotta pay bills and its not worth it anyways". I would even say these people aren't strong. And this isn't just limited to a few cases I know - it's a trend that is setting off everywhere. I know, I've been there. Taking jobs you don't like, while pushing yourself to do more after work even though you only get 4 hours of sleep was my ticket into a nice job.[/QUOTE]
Ahahaha, holy shit, yeah, all those nine million jobless people or minimum wage workers looking for jobs have found the greatest solution thanks to you, you should spread the word: "LOOK HARDER, APPLY TO MORE JOBS, TIGHTEN YOUR RESUME, AND GET MORE EXPERIENCE". Ignoring the fact the latter two actually requires for you to have a job in the first place ( which is increasingly moving to overseas by the way cause rich corporates realize they can overwork thousands with an incredibly shit wage ). And I can use the same logic as you, I actually know tons of people who aren't lazy but forced to do what they're gonna have to do in order to feed their kids, it's not a trend here, they're not fuck my life, they're more like fuck I'm going nowhere cause no where else is accepting me, let me inject personal anecdote to make myself look more credible, and etc.
[QUOTE=_Chewgum;38723479]kinda funny how usa punishes the rich for problems they didn't cause[/QUOTE]
Kinda funny how you have literally no idea how taxation works
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;38726657]Ahahaha, holy shit, yeah, all those nine million jobless people or minimum wage workers looking for jobs have found the greatest solution thanks to you, you should spread the word: "LOOK HARDER, APPLY TO MORE JOBS, TIGHTEN YOUR RESUME, AND GET MORE EXPERIENCE". Ignoring the fact the latter two actually requires for you to have a job in the first place ( which is increasingly moving to overseas by the way cause rich corporates realize they can overwork thousands with an incredibly shit wage ). And I can use the same logic as you, I actually know tons of people who aren't lazy but forced to do what they're gonna have to do in order to feed their kids, it's not a trend here, they're not fuck my life, they're more like fuck I'm going nowhere cause no where else is accepting me, let me inject personal anecdote to make myself look more credible, and etc.[/QUOTE]
I'll stand by my original statement that if you work hard enough you won't need to helped by the government or from the tax money of wealthy individuals. All the strength you need, you have the ability to conjure. Or is this an overly hopeful way of thinking? idk
[QUOTE=_Chewgum;38723599]are the rich spending a bunch of printed money? no
i'm all for the rich paying a bit more tax, but just because they have money doesn't mean they have some duty to give it away. It's like me coming into your house and taking your food because you have a lot.
and your comparison to murders is just dumb kiddie shit[/QUOTE]
Only they do owe society more for being rich, because they only had the opportunity to be rich because of society. Bill Gates earned his riches and happily pays what he owes because he understands he OWES it. He created an extremely desirable product but the credit for his success isn't his alone. Without an educated population to join his company as software engineers, without millions of consumers and business owners spending their money on his products, without graphic designers and marketing firms, without a society of willing and able workers and consumers, Bill Gates would just be a nerd with a cool command line OS. Society works in a roundabout way, without many of the social programs that exist to help people get education, learn skills, make investments, and buy products, Microsoft wouldnt be able to produce, let alone sell, their products
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Glitchman;38726710]I'll stand by my original statement that if you work hard enough you won't need to helped by the government or from the tax money of wealthy individuals. All the strength you need, you have the ability to conjure. Or is this an overly hopeful way of thinking? idk[/QUOTE]
News flash; nobody gives a shit about your useless wishful thinking on an internet forum. Being poor in America Fucking sucks and finding work is hard enough for people who've had the opportunity to get a proper education, never mind people who can't even afford that
[QUOTE=Glitchman;38726710]I'll stand by my original statement that if you work hard enough you won't need to helped by the government or from the tax money of wealthy individuals. All the strength you need, you have the ability to conjure. Or is this an overly hopeful way of thinking? idk[/QUOTE]
I'd say the word "naive" would be more accurate
[QUOTE=Siminov;38725966]I am not against raising taxes, BUT...
Shouldn't the country be concerned about managing its money first before increasing taxes? If it can't spend it's money wisely right now, what is to say a tax increase is an answer, even if it is on the rich?[/QUOTE]
That's the biggest problem honestly. Doesn't it matter what we get from where, the government has been freaking terrible at managing money and using it wisely.
Taxing the rich definitely does something but it's not a miracle, solve-all solution. The way we choose to spend it, we could take everything from the rich and it still would not do much of anything.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;38726878]That's the biggest problem honestly. Doesn't it matter what we get from where, the government has been freaking terrible at managing money and using it wisely.
Taxing the rich definitely does something but it's not a miracle, solve-all solution. The way we choose to spend it, we could take everything from the rich and it still would not do much of anything.[/QUOTE]
I know it has been said a million times, but what the USA needs RIGHT NOW is to lower the military budget.
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