• Islam Banned in Angola
    153 replies, posted
I can't wait to see the Angolan army geared up with long swords and chainmail. [sp]Crusade reference[/sp]
[QUOTE=code_gs;42971936]Can you back that up? There's only 2 situations in history I can think of where Islam, when set in power, corrupts everything.[/QUOTE] I honestly can't think of much corruption, I mean, Islam has been much more helpful to civilization as a whole than Catholicism. Catholics burned and destroyed so much knowledge on the basis of it being, "evil pagan knowledge" or other stupid things like that. Let's not get into how the clergy of Feudal Europe pretty much abused their positions of power to live like kings and use religion to wage wars at their whim. Vlad the Impaler and more. Islam is pretty much responsible for the idea of modern medicine, mathmatics, academia, etc... Other religions have been more tied to the destruction of knowledge. Pagan Rome > Catholic Rome, blah blah blah.
[QUOTE=draugur;42972001]Catholics burned and destroyed so much knowledge on the basis of it being, "evil pagan knowledge" or other stupid things like that.[/QUOTE] do you got sources on that? the catholic church is p. much responsible for preserving roman knowledge and culture. without the church, most of our knowledge of the romans would have been lost.
[QUOTE=draugur;42972001]I honestly can't think of much corruption, I mean, Islam has been much more helpful to civilization as a whole than Catholicism. Catholics burned and destroyed so much knowledge on the basis of it being, "evil pagan knowledge" or other stupid things like that. Let's not get into how the clergy of Feudal Europe pretty much abused their positions of power to live like kings and use religion to wage wars at their whim. Vlad the Impaler and more. Islam is pretty much responsible for the idea of modern medicine, mathmatics, academia, etc... Other religions have been more tied to the destruction of knowledge. Pagan Rome > Catholic Rome, blah blah blah.[/QUOTE] muslims burned down the library at alexandria
[QUOTE=draugur;42972001]I honestly can't think of much corruption, I mean, Islam has been much more helpful to civilization as a whole than Catholicism. Catholics burned and destroyed so much knowledge on the basis of it being, "evil pagan knowledge" or other stupid things like that. Let's not get into how the clergy of Feudal Europe pretty much abused their positions of power to live like kings and use religion to wage wars at their whim. Vlad the Impaler and more. Islam is pretty much responsible for the idea of modern medicine, mathmatics, academia, etc... Other religions have been more tied to the destruction of knowledge. Pagan Rome > Catholic Rome, blah blah blah.[/QUOTE] Look at how the Ottoman Empire spread Islam, it sure as hell wasn't peaceful. Btw, Vlad the Impaler more or less was protecting his "kingdom" from the Ottoman Conquest.
[QUOTE=code_gs;42971936]Can you back that up? There's only 2 situations in history I can think of where Islam, when set in power, corrupts everything.[/QUOTE] Islam was cool and all until about the 10th century, then it started going to shit because a few people got into power that were like No. Fuck No. Learning is bad. Science is bad. Books? Fuck those things. And even today, in the most free Islamic countries, it's miles away from being as free and accepting as it was in the 10th century
[QUOTE=draugur;42972001]I honestly can't think of much corruption, I mean, Islam has been much more helpful to civilization as a whole than Catholicism. Catholics burned and destroyed so much knowledge on the basis of it being, "evil pagan knowledge" or other stupid things like that. Let's not get into how the clergy of Feudal Europe pretty much abused their positions of power to live like kings and use religion to wage wars at their whim. Vlad the Impaler and more. Islam is pretty much responsible for the idea of modern medicine, mathmatics, academia, etc... Other religions have been more tied to the destruction of knowledge. Pagan Rome > Catholic Rome, blah blah blah.[/QUOTE] Learn your history. It was because of the monks that most of the old world was preserved. At least in the West. In the East the Byzantine Empire was still going strong, but they got a bit of a hiccup when the Caliphate invaded the Middle East and conquered the Byzantine East/Persian Empire. The Muslims got their head-start in tech by utilizing the stuff they conquered (to the point that they used Byzantine-styled coins.)
[QUOTE=TheTalon;42972089]Islam was cool and all until about the 10th century, then it started going to shit because a few people got into power that were like No. Fuck No. Learning is bad. Science is bad. Books? Fuck those things. And even today, in the most free Islamic countries, it's miles away from being as free and accepting as it was in the 10th century[/QUOTE] that's a simplification of over a millennium of religious, cultural, economic, political, and diplomatic history regarding a very diverse area. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] your "analysis" is incredibly unfair and incredibly narrow-minded.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42972099]that's a simplification of over a millennium of religious, cultural, economic, political, and diplomatic history regarding a very diverse area.[/QUOTE] Well Baghdad was like Rome. And in a very very short period of time, it wasn't anymore. And that was THE center of the cultural world at the time
Why on earth would you try to single out and then completely ban a religion?. i could understand ,like, restricting all religions equally so everyone's personal beliefs have no impact on anyone other than themselves, (not allowing stories from holy books to be taught as fact in schools ,not allowing laws to be based on religious rules, outlawing any practices that could harm others etc) but how exactly do you ban something someone believes in? you cant magically stop them believing it by making it illegal, and if you could why would you want to?.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42972061]muslims burned down the library at alexandria[/QUOTE] no they didnt the library ceased to exist long before mohammed was born
[QUOTE=TheTalon;42972114]Well Baghdad was like Rome. And in a very very short period of time, it wasn't anymore[/QUOTE] why was this, though?
[QUOTE=TheTalon;42972114]Well Baghdad was like Rome. And in a very very short period of time, it wasn't anymore[/QUOTE] That's because Mongols happened. The Sack of Baghdad was as pivotal to the destruction of the Muslim Golden Age as the Sack of Constantinople was for the destruction of the Byzantine Empire.
did all the muslims of bagdhad just one day get up and say "fuck all this science and shit" [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;42972122]That's because Mongols happened. The Sack of Baghdad was as pivotal to the destruction of the Muslim Golden Age as the Sack of Constantinople was for the destruction of the Byzantine Empire.[/QUOTE] no bagdhad had begun decline way earlier. it was due to buwayhids and seljuqs
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42972061]muslims burned down the library at alexandria[/QUOTE] You should read about the scholars and great universities in Baghdad, Cordoba and Cairo. [editline]24th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;42972121]why was this, though?[/QUOTE] Trade routes and connected empires gathering together the greatest minds.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;42972089]Islam was cool and all until about the 10th century, then it started going to shit because a few people got into power that were like No. Fuck No. Learning is bad. Science is bad. Books? Fuck those things. And even today, in the most free Islamic countries, it's miles away from being as free and accepting as it was in the 10th century[/QUOTE] arghhh no they didnt have you read about scholars after the 10th century ibn khaldun lived centuries later and wrote a lot of sociology, economics, history, and science that was pretty fresh and influential
i'm not saying the muslims are worse than christians because of that i was just trying to show that both religious groups have been responsible for destroying ancient knowledge. in fact i'd say every single religion on earth has at one time or another suppressed knowledge and shit like that, and it's always when that religion has been the major one, because religion is used as a tool to control people
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42971280]source? [editline]24th November 2013[/editline] i mean i really can't find anything on the mlpa except that they are part of the socialist international, currently claim to be social democrat, and sorta dominate politics in angola.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War[/URL] After the death Of Savimbi Angola pretty much became a proletarian dictatorship [editline]24th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;42972127]did all the muslims of bagdhad just one day get up and say "fuck all this science and shit" [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] no bagdhad had begun decline way earlier. it was due to buwayhids and seljuqs[/QUOTE] Actually Bagdad fell with the fall of the Abassid Caliphate about, aroun the eleventh and 12th century I believe, Bagdhad was and still is a stronghold and center for Islam
[QUOTE=draugur;42971966]*Tips fedora* Seriously, you're a fucking loon. How about we talk about all the corruption the Christian religion has caused hmm? Both are known throughout history to be violent and responsible for acts of terror that would make most people cringe at the thought.[/QUOTE] Or, y'know, accept the fact that religions do shitloads of [I][B]good[/B][/I] for society, and are very beautiful at their cores, and the vast majority of religious people are ordinary, nonviolent people? Neither Islam nor Christianity have been responsible for acts of terror. [I]People[/I] are responsible for acts of terror, not religions. But yes, this is absolutely terrible, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the Muslims of Angola.
[QUOTE=slayer64;42972179]Or, y'know, accept the fact that religions do shitloads of [I][B]good[/B][/I] for society, and are very beautiful at their cores, and the vast majority of religious people are ordinary, nonviolent people? Neither Islam nor Christianity have been responsible for acts of terror. [I]People[/I] are responsible for acts of terror, not religions. But yes, this is absolutely terrible, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the Muslims of Angola.[/QUOTE] by the same logic you can say that neither christianity nor islam has been responsible for the acts of good either, but that it's people who are responsible for it, not religions [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] which i would agree with
[QUOTE=draugur;42972001]Catholics burned and destroyed so much knowledge on the basis of it being, "evil pagan knowledge" or other stupid things like that.[/quote] oh yeah this is why they burned all of those old books and writings by the greeks and romans what "evil pagan knowledge" are you talking about btw i didnt know about this [quote]Let's not get into how the clergy of Feudal Europe pretty much abused their positions of power to live like kings and use religion to wage wars at their whim. Vlad the Impaler and more.[/quote] religious motivations for warfare was more pronounced during the reformation [quote]Islam is pretty much responsible for the idea of modern medicine, mathmatics, academia, etc... Other religions have been more tied to the destruction of knowledge. Pagan Rome > Catholic Rome, blah blah blah.[/QUOTE] no they werent they had to have a base to work off of. most of them took greek and roman works and went "yeah lets improve them on" since when was islam the motivating factor? roman and greek philosophers looked to the natural world, they didnt use gods to explain it. muslim scholars would carry on in the same way also since when were other religions responsible for the destruction of knowledge
[QUOTE=slayer64;42972179]Or, y'know, accept the fact that religions do shitloads of [I][B]good[/B][/I] for society, and are very beautiful at their cores, and the vast majority of religious people are ordinary, nonviolent people? Neither Islam nor Christianity have been responsible for acts of terror. [I]People[/I] are responsible for acts of terror, not religions. But yes, this is absolutely terrible, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the Muslims of Angola.[/QUOTE] religion is a tool of domination. domination can lead to "great" things being done(like pyramids or temples or huge empires), but generally that comes at the price of human life, happiness, and freedom.
[QUOTE=code_gs;42971588]Why is it good to ban Islam?[/QUOTE] Because Muhammad is a fucking pedophile. Are you saying you support 40 year old men marrying 10 year old girls, cause its there "religious" beliefs. Fuck that, and fuck Islam.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42972206]religion is a tool of domination. domination can lead to "great" things being done(like pyramids or temples or huge empires), but generally that comes at the price of human life, happiness, and freedom.[/QUOTE] Religion is an ideal of faith, prosperity, and purpose. It gives people a feeling that the world isnt as terrible as it is percieved to be. It helps people be at ease, without religion people would more than likely have been at each others throuts constantly. [editline]24th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=FLIPPY;42972214]Because Muhammad is a fucking pedophile. Are you saying you support 40 year old men marrying 10 year old girls, cause its there "religious" beliefs. Fuck that, and fuck Islam.[/QUOTE] That is a very biased, ignorant, and prejudice response, Muhammad lived nearly fifteen hundren years ago, and this was deemed acceptable at time, You are holding something people did over a milenia ago against them now, Get The Fuck Out
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;42972221]Religion is an ideal of faith, prosperity, and purpose. It gives people a feeling that the world isnt as terrible as it is percieved to be. It helps people be at ease, without religion people would more than likely have been at each others throuts constantly.[/QUOTE] on a local level this is mostly true, but not on a governmental one
[QUOTE=FLIPPY;42972214]Because Muhammad is a fucking pedophile. Are you saying you support 40 year old men marrying 10 year old girls, cause its there "religious" beliefs. Fuck that, and fuck Islam.[/QUOTE] you got a nice dissertation here, i think you deserve like a doctorate in islamic culture and history or something. v nice interpretation with a lot of points expanded on islam i especially like the assertion that mohammed was "a fucking pedophile", which justifies the ban of a major religion
[QUOTE=FLIPPY;42972214]Because Muhammad is a fucking pedophile. Are you saying you support 40 year old men marrying 10 year old girls, cause its there "religious" beliefs. Fuck that, and fuck Islam.[/QUOTE] I could easily make a list of hundreds of Christian atrocities?
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;42972221]Religion is an ideal of faith, prosperity, and purpose. It gives people a feeling that the world isnt as terrible as it is percieved to be. It helps people be at ease, without religion people would more than likely have been at each others throuts constantly. [/QUOTE] yes, faith, prosperity & purpose, IF you adhere to the laws and beliefs of that religion over your own personal ideals.
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;42972221]Religion is an ideal of faith, prosperity, and purpose. It gives people a feeling that the world isnt as terrible as it is percieved to be. It helps people be at ease, without religion people would more than likely have been at each others throuts constantly.[/QUOTE] yea, you can pacify people and get them working together under an organized religion that teaches them subservience to god and the kingdom/empire/society. i'm not really talking about individual spirituality when i talk about "religion". i am talking about the cases where religion becomes a powerful political and societal force. levitical priests writing the book of leviticus to create a code of law for hebrews to follow. the catholic church basically using religion as a means of trying to keep western europe cohesive and somewhat united under christendom against muslim and pagan invasions. the caliphs that claimed divine right to rule due to being a successor to mohammed. religion is not just a thing of faith, it's a tool used to obtain and keep power.
[QUOTE=draugur;42972001]I honestly can't think of much corruption, I mean, Islam has been much more helpful to civilization as a whole than Catholicism. Catholics burned and destroyed so much knowledge on the basis of it being, "evil pagan knowledge" or other stupid things like that. Let's not get into how the clergy of Feudal Europe pretty much abused their positions of power to live like kings and use religion to wage wars at their whim. Vlad the Impaler and more. Islam is pretty much responsible for the idea of modern medicine, mathmatics, academia, etc... Other religions have been more tied to the destruction of knowledge. Pagan Rome > Catholic Rome, blah blah blah.[/QUOTE] Please, don't speak if you don't know.... Like Yawmwen has said, they are responsible for keeping/preserve knowledge. And in fact, thanks to philosophical developments within the Catholicism we were able to jump into the "Enlightenment". This in change didn't happen in Asia, which was actually on par or much better than europe around the 1400-1500. After nominalism and the revitalization of averroism in Italy (Padua medics) which led to people being much much more interested in maths and science coupled with Francis Bacon inductive method, BANG! Science bitch! [B]What the Church can be accused of, is of keeping said knowledge within monasteries.[/B] But anyway, I don't know how you would like to have everyone learn when you have to make books by hand, page by page. Coincidentally, all this happens just after the print is invented. [QUOTE]Religion is an ideal of faith, prosperity, and purpose. It gives people a feeling that the world isnt as terrible as it is percieved to be[/QUOTE] What did the first jews believed? If I properly recall, they thought no matter what you did, you were going to be doomed for eternity. Sheol was that? how fucked up that can be, uh? And it is an ideal of faith, prosperity and purpose DEPENDING on the general thought of the time and about what religion we're talking about. If we place Christianity-Catholicism in this time frame....many people will say the opposite. However, why did it spread like that? Why people accepted it so quickly, even though it had many heresies/splinter groups? Now, how do you explain the same for Christianity-Protestantism/Reformism during the 1500's? It spread like fire on many countries, and it is also believed that it helped create Capitalism (Max weber) specially puritanism and zwingilism (Never get this one right)
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