here is a better source
[url]http://www.onislam.net/english/news/africa/466297-angola-bans-islam-destroys-mosques.html[/url]
and Angola DIDN'T ban Islam, it was actually banned before this and the process of legalizing it wasn't approved or something
well banning islam is kinda wrong
but i would agree to ban jihadists and radical islam
[QUOTE=Sally;42971896]The religion practically corrupts anything it touches when set in power.[/QUOTE]
You're blaming all political corruption in all cases, to a... yeah... cultural belief. You're more in cloud cuckoo land than the people who misrepresent the religion lol
Bad things are coming to Angola it seems.
Banning a religion is like telling people to not eat nor to drink. As food and water are required by the body, so is religion by lesser minds who crave for being dominated by someone or something.
[QUOTE=Siduron;42974991]Banning a religion is like telling people to not eat nor to drink. As food and water are required by the body, so is religion by lesser minds who crave for being dominated by someone or something.[/QUOTE]
who says craving to be dominated is a thing of lesser minds
[QUOTE=Siduron;42974991]Banning a religion is like telling people to not eat nor to drink. As food and water are required by the body, so is religion by lesser minds who crave for being dominated by someone or something.[/QUOTE]
So masochists have lesser minds?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42971154]it's ruled by a social democratic political party, not communist.[/QUOTE]
That kind of reminds me of "They're not fascists! They are National Social!"
[QUOTE=Matrix374;42974507]A religion that follows a homophobic sexist book with a bigoted asshole of a god?
Same goes for Christianity,but I don't agree with banning both since it does jackshit to diminishing a belief and also hurts people more than it helps.
Heck,this would probably strengthens one's belief in their religion rather than make them give it up[/QUOTE]
Please bother reading about the Quran before you start going apeshit on it, thanks
[QUOTE=fulgrim;42972117]Why on earth would you try to single out and then completely ban a religion?.
i could understand ,like, restricting all religions equally so everyone's personal beliefs have no impact on anyone other than themselves,
(not allowing stories from holy books to be taught as fact in schools ,not allowing laws to be based on religious rules, outlawing any practices that could harm others etc)
but how exactly do you ban something someone believes in? you cant magically stop them believing it by making it illegal, and if you could why would you want to?.[/QUOTE]
I can sort of see why: As Islam contains rules about civil justice and it's an active tradition therein, it's colliding with many political systems.
I don't know which movements of Islam are the most common in Angola, but as it's a minority faith there I imagine that the percentage or activity of radical or discriminating tendencies may be higher.
(I have absolutely no source for that though, considering the USA are mostly Christian and we hear a lot about radicals there.)
Maybe it's just a matter of perception by the majority/ruling party...
[QUOTE=EddieLTU;42974687]well banning islam is kinda wrong
but i would agree to ban jihadists and radical islam[/QUOTE]
Ban terrorism and hate speech instead, that's not discriminating and covers all belief systems.
I can sympathise with the notion that youd rather be rid of islam than having to budge on any of its demands.
But its not going to lead to anything good to supress a major religion.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42972061]muslims burned down the library at alexandria[/QUOTE]
Yes, and the current Muslims residing in Egypt---the current Muslims [I]governing[/I] Egypt---are just frothing at the mouth to burn it again, right?
Why do people think the same people who committed genocides and atrocities generations ago are somehow in a fucking hive mind with the current people today? Are Muslims suddenly the Borg now?
Banning any religion is akin to creating a thought crime, never mind the fact that bans never stop religions any way. But hell it's Africa what do you expect, it's pretty much like an entire continent decided to be really fucked up (I know it's due to colonialism don't point this out to me)
There's about 7 people in power, and none of them is josé eduardo dos santos
we shouldn't have left angola haha
Islam is not a very good religion when mixed with politics. Here's a pro-islam website that quotes this as the final paragraph in regards to freedom of religion, although the Qur'an it'self does say that anyone can believe what they want, even if what they believe is an error (See source):
[quote]But, there can be an Islamic state where the Qur’an is accepted as the constitution and the Islamic Shari`ah (law) is in force as the basis of its civil and penal code. In such a state, Muslims can have a special status as citizens, while non-Muslims are given their due rights to believe and practice their religion. There, if a Muslim openly declares that he rejects Islam, it is tantamount to decrying the constitution of that country and the person will be judged for treason and duly punished. [/quote]
[url]http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-a...ew/166333.html[/url]
This source relates to the 2nd source which i have included in the quote.
[url]http://www.onislam.net/english/news/...s-mosques.html[/url]
[editline]25th November 2013[/editline]
[url]http://www.onislam.net/english/news/africa/466297-angola-bans-islam-destroys-mosques.html[/url]
[editline]25th November 2013[/editline]
Is it just me or does facepunch editing no longer work and populate the text box?
[QUOTE=draugur;42972001]I honestly can't think of much corruption, I mean, Islam has been much more helpful to civilization as a whole than Catholicism. Catholics burned and destroyed so much knowledge on the basis of it being, "evil pagan knowledge" or other stupid things like that. Let's not get into how the clergy of Feudal Europe pretty much abused their positions of power to live like kings and use religion to wage wars at their whim. Vlad the Impaler and more.
Islam is pretty much responsible for the idea of modern medicine, mathmatics, academia, etc... Other religions have been more tied to the destruction of knowledge. Pagan Rome > Catholic Rome, blah blah blah.[/QUOTE]
[B]Islam[/B] is not responsible for any of that. The people of the Middle-East are, but the religion had nothing to do with it (unless you consider "not stifling research" as contributing to it. I sure as hell don't). For the few hundred years where the Middle-East was a place of great trade and discovery, it was a good place to be. Then the radical clerics started to take charge and ruined a perfectly good society. Islam didn't start their golden age, but it sure as hell ended it.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;42975797]Please bother reading about the Quran before you start going apeshit on it, thanks[/QUOTE]
This is one small bit I'm taking from the Quran but according to what I've learned in classrooms from my Muslim teachers AND my own personal experience from reading the Quran;
I'm supposed to get executed for being an apostate of Islam!(WOW GREAT)
And yes I have heard that you can interpret that actual passage as executing Muslims who are a direct threat to the Islamic community and for Muslims who commit treason but there's something real wrong with your holy book if you can take one passage and get two drastically different messages from it.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;42976362]Yes, and the current Muslims residing in Egypt---the current Muslims [I]governing[/I] Egypt---are just frothing at the mouth to burn it again, right?
Why do people think the same people who committed genocides and atrocities generations ago are somehow in a fucking hive mind with the current people today? Are Muslims suddenly the Borg now?[/QUOTE]
maybe if you saw what i was replying to and read other posts in this thread you'd realize you just made my point
By banning a religion they are just creating more martyrs
[QUOTE=draugur;42972342]Yeah, if protecting your kingdom looks like brutally murdering and torturing random people to the point where historical paintings literally display your kingdom as a forest of people on spikes, then yes, I'd totally call his actions justified in order to defend his kingdom. No.[/QUOTE]
That's pretty much how he protected his kingdom. Hell, that's one of the main points of defense, make your enemy fear you. The sight and stench of the mutilated bodies pretty much scared any invaders away. The fact that he claimed to be Christian has nothing to do with that. (Yes, he was part of the Order of the Dragon, which was formed to protect Christianity, but he did not conquer in the name of religion.)
Looks like this place is where I am moving next.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;42972624]And back on topic, if they wanted to wipe away Islamism, then the way to go is just to open knowledge to everyone. Basically, the more educated and informed people are, the less they tend to follow a religion. But it is a long damn process, usually takes more than a couple of generations.[/QUOTE]
Right, because turning the entire population into atheists and getting them to follow Logic™ and Reason™ is totally going to fix all their problems.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;42975797]Please bother reading about the Quran before you start going apeshit on it, thanks[/QUOTE]
an-nisa 4:16 - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both"
al-shuara 26:165 - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings. O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. Then afterward We destroyed the others. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!"
Kitab Al-Hudud 38:4447 - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done."
kitab al-libas 32:4087 "The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) cursed the man who dressed like a woman and the woman who dressed like a man."
Tirmidhi 1:152 - "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver. "
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42983776]an-nisa 4:16 - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both"
al-shuara 26:165 - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings. O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. Then afterward We destroyed the others. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!"
Kitab Al-Hudud 38:4447 - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done."
kitab al-libas 32:4087 "The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) cursed the man who dressed like a woman and the woman who dressed like a man."
Tirmidhi 1:152 - "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver. "[/QUOTE]
Only the first two are in the core book though and it's essentially the same as the bible (except it's in story form only in the latter, not as explicit law afaik).
The others are hadiths and seem to be widely accepted in Sunni Islam only as far as I could find out.
(Not that I think this has a place anywhere, but you have to check where exactly things are written and shouldn't generalize.)
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;42983776]an-nisa 4:16 - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both"
al-shuara 26:165 - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings. O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. Then afterward We destroyed the others. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!"
Kitab Al-Hudud 38:4447 - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done."
kitab al-libas 32:4087 "The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) cursed the man who dressed like a woman and the woman who dressed like a man."
Tirmidhi 1:152 - "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver. "[/QUOTE]
Why are you quoting hadith??
I thought the argument was about the quran
[QUOTE=slayer64;42981041]Right, because turning the entire population into atheists and getting them to follow Logic™ and Reason™ is totally going to fix all their problems.[/QUOTE]
Why did you put a TM in front of logic and reason?
[QUOTE=mchapra;42984668]Why are you quoting hadith??
I thought the argument was about the quran[/QUOTE]
the article is about banning islam, not banning the quran. I chose varied quotes from different sectors of islam because each source seemed to have repetitive things to say about homosexuals. the first quote you see in my post is from the quran as is the second.
[QUOTE=slayer64;42981041]Right, because turning the entire population into atheists and getting them to follow Logic™ and Reason™ is totally going to fix all their problems.[/QUOTE]
No no, I'm not dropping a Holbach here sir.
I wasn't saying that it would bring progress or anything like that. Just pointed out that if they wanted to remove RELIGION then it was the way to go.
[QUOTE=Auto Taco;42980723]That's pretty much how he protected his kingdom. Hell, that's one of the main points of defense, make your enemy fear you. The sight and stench of the mutilated bodies pretty much scared any invaders away. The fact that he claimed to be Christian has nothing to do with that. (Yes, he was part of the Order of the Dragon, which was formed to protect Christianity, but he did not conquer in the name of religion.)[/QUOTE]
i don't think most christians really approved of the impaler. even for his time, he was depicted as a cruel and disgusting person.
and back then p. much every european lord or monarch claimed to be a devout christian. in a sense, the whole of catholic europe can be seen as a very loose union of kings, dukes, and counts that claimed some sort of allegiance to the church and christendom. that's why so many lords packed up and left for the "holy land", spending their savings on armor. being a "christian" was almost as much a political affiliation as it was a spiritual one.
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;42986151]Why did you put a TM in front of logic and reason?[/QUOTE]
Because everyone knows that atheists have trademarked logic and reason, and are the only ones capable of using them. /s
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