• Boy who shot intruder says suspect 'cried like a little baby'
    468 replies, posted
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36183473[/url] and thats why i dont trust kids with guns [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqWad73BGPI[/media] [sp]origin of this song is relevant also[/sp] [editline]2nd May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=yodafart9;50239492]Anti gun liberals will literally do or say anything to justify the banning of guns.[/QUOTE] the only actual argument which is strong enough to concede is that the situation in america is fucked up with poverty, abuse and violence that you all need guns to have any sense of safety. I hope to seem non-insulting but this problem is far deeper than anyone can actually discuss. It isn't about guns really. [editline]2nd May 2016[/editline] also the fact that "fight to the death" is seemingly the [I]only[/I] option in any scenario regarding threatening circumstances is also pretty hard for me to fathom... I've been in threatening circumstances constantly, but I have never shown aggression unless totally necessary.. If I did that in every single situation, I'd be completely mulch in 5mins.
It's not that fight to the death is the only option, it's that it's the better option between rolling over, and dying anyways. You do not know if the person breaking in your house is JUST a robber. You can sum this up as "You crazy americans and your gun loving nation" but it even applies to Canada, a gun-"eh" nation. You just simply do not know if they're there just to rob you, if they're high on anything, if they're going to do anything else. I generally live with my girlfriend. If a person breaks into my home, what assurances do I have that our safety is guarunteed? I can call the cops. Cool, that's going to be 10 minutes. Cool, I have to keep myself, and my girlfriend safe in a place with 1 exit for 10 minutes. What if he has a gun, and he points it at us, and he rapes my girlfriend? Should I be proud that I didn't kill anyone? Should I be proud of how well I failed to protect my loved ones? I don't fucking understand the mindset of "No, just let them have their way, it's better this way". I just cannot fucking understand it. I swear it is a mindset of a person willing to lose what they love.
The fact that you assume you are going to die under every circumstance is why I can't really argue. You may not understand my mindset, but obviously it's due to a difference in circumstances. There is no safety guaranteed at all, when you are being threatened. It's only your choices that will determine your safety. My instinct to respond to a bunch of hoodlums with knives is not to assume I'm bruce lee and get myself stabbed 50 times. I know so many folk who have been mugged, but those who have succumbed to violence have responded aggressively in these situations and ended up in hospital. This specific scenario with the kid is very confusing, I've watched the interview and now I have actually no clarity what really happened. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50239642]I swear it is a mindset of a person willing to lose what they love.[/QUOTE] Who exactly is going to care if I "didn't fight the good fight". All I'm interested in, is people being alive and reduction of conflict.
[QUOTE=AK'z;50239691]The fact that you assume you are going to die under every circumstance is why I can't really argue. You may not understand my mindset, but obviously it's due to a difference in circumstances. There is no safety guaranteed at all, when you are being threatened. It's only your choices that will determine your safety. My instinct to respond to a bunch of hoodlums with knives is not to assume I'm bruce lee and get myself stabbed 50 times. I know so many folk who have been mugged, but those who have succumbed to violence have responded aggressively in these situations and ended up in hospital. This specific scenario with the kid is very confusing, I've watched the interview and now I have actually no clarity what really happened. Who exactly is going to care if I "didn't fight the good fight". All I'm interested in, is people being alive and reduction of conflict.[/QUOTE] Yeah so I refer to a home break in and you refer to a mugging two drastically different scenarios with totally different ways of playing out stop that those aren't fucking comparable [editline]1st May 2016[/editline] If someone breaks into your house, you don't know how many are there, what there intentions are. ANYTHING. If you walk along the street into a group of muggers, there's a little bit more knowledge that they want your money because you can fucking see them. You're in public. It's a different scenario. I think the simple fact is you don't want to think of a scenario where you're in a corner. If you break into my apartment, YOU ARE PUTTING ME INTO A FUCKING CORNER. I have to go through the break in, TO GET OUT. How hard is it to understand for a lot of people, this is the world they live in, it's not a fucked up world, it's not scary, but they understand that if it DOES get scary, that it's fucking childishly naive to think just curling into a ball and letting it happen is going to be the best way to survive. Honest question: Should you kill a person trying to rape your wife?
it's the same whether you are in a building or on a street you will have the same emotional reactions, you will be the same person, you will choose what to do
[QUOTE=AK'z;50239763]it's the same whether you are in a building or on a street you will have the same emotional reactions, you will be the same person, you will choose what to do[/QUOTE] No it's not. I've been mugged, and stabbed. I've had home invasions. They are fucking different.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50238951]Read the subsections on it. You have no duty to retreat in your house in NJ. [editline]1st May 2016[/editline] To show you what I mean: [url]ftp://www.njleg.state.nj.us/20082009/A0500/159_I1.PDF[/url][/QUOTE] Interesting. That still doesn't cover the proportionality law though which is the greater of two evils IMO
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50239791]No it's not. I've been mugged, and stabbed. I've had home invasions. They are fucking different.[/QUOTE] what occurs between people could happen in any of those scenarios. you can talk about element of surprise but not all events occur like you experience, not everyone who i know got mugged got stabbed.. in fact most got away with only a 40 quid phone taken.. some got stabbed or bottled, some more serious conflicts with severe head injuries. But these individual events are unique and what happens is not predictable. What if you're taking out the garbage and suddenly someone goes in? You're not cornered, you have no defence, you have nothing but your own mind and body. The world is fucked up. I'm not going to sit here and say it isn't when it is. I've had instances where people grab a knife and sliced their own hand off, he had a knife and he was surrounded by security and nurses. In your mind, he should be dead. But his life was saved and his hand was too. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50239729] I think the simple fact is you don't want to think of a scenario where you're in a corner.[/QUOTE] no idea why you assume this
[QUOTE=AK'z;50239763]it's the same whether you are in a building or on a street you will have the same emotional reactions, you will be the same person, you will choose what to do[/QUOTE] There's no difference between a dude demanding you wallet and a dude who broke into your house multiple times and threatened to kill you? in your house? Imagine not feeling safe in your own fucking house. Imagine someone breaking down your front door, who you have 0 idea of the intentions of, threatening to kill you. And they have done this multiple times.
you're making up scenarios that can occur in any circumstance and setting what if you got home and someone was already inside? what if you were cornered in a public bathroom? what if they don't want your wallet, what if they demand your address and take your keys? it's all an event you cannot possibly predict. your response in all scenarios is a fight to the death and you will die.
[QUOTE=AK'z;50239992]you're making up scenarios that can occur in any circumstance and setting what if you got home and someone was already inside? [/quote] That depends. If I only realize once I'm in the house and I think they have the intent to harm me, I will defend myself. More likely, I'd call the cops and tell them that someone is actively robbing me if I realize that the front door is busted. [quote] what if you were cornered in a public bathroom? [/quote] How does public bathroom equate to my house? Also, if they corner me, physically prevent me from leaving and physically threaten me or otherwise make it clear that they intend to harm me, I will defend myself. [quote] what if they don't want your wallet, what if they demand your address and take your keys? [/quote] Then I'll call the police. Or more likely, I won't give them the keys, they might attack me, in which case I will defend myself. This is not the same as being cornered with no way out. Additionally, I can't ever imagine a reality in which something this bizarre would happen. [quote] it's all an event you cannot possibly predict. [/quote] Yeah, how does me predicting it matter at all [quote] your response in all scenarios is a fight to the death and you will die.[/QUOTE] No, my response is not that. Using deadly force is only an appropriate response when your life is being threatened, and you would have possibly died regardless. If someone pins me down in a public restroom and attempts to rape me, you bet your fucking ass I'm going to shoot them. If someone is in my house and they threaten to kill me, I'm DEFINITELY going to shoot them. [editline]2nd May 2016[/editline] You're the one pulling scenarios out of your ass here, not me. Anyone who intends to harm me, my family, or people I care about and that is in my house will definitely end up being castle doctrine'd
well you've not actually addressed the reality in any of the scenarios. the police are useless unless you've barricaded yourself in and everywhere else you would fight to the death and you will die.
[QUOTE=AK'z;50240057]well you've not actually addressed the reality in any of the scenarios. the police are useless unless you've barricaded yourself in and everywhere else you would fight to the death and you will die.[/QUOTE] So... do nothing? I don't get what you're trying to say. You're trying to say that people are scared but should do nothing about it because to do otherwise is to act out of fear that is the same as the fear in other situations (or something, I have no idea). I don't really get why this person is not allowed to shoot this mugger.
[QUOTE=AK'z;50239992]you're making up scenarios that can occur in any circumstance and setting what if you got home and someone was already inside? what if you were cornered in a public bathroom? what if they don't want your wallet, what if they demand your address and take your keys? it's all an event you cannot possibly predict. your response in all scenarios is a fight to the death and you will die.[/QUOTE] And in all of those scenarios you're relying on the good will of a person wronging you to come out alive Seems like bad reasoning
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50240086]So... do nothing? I don't get what you're trying to say. You're trying to say that people are scared but should do nothing about it because to do otherwise is to act out of fear that is the same as the fear in other situations (or something, I have no idea). I don't really get why this person is not allowed to shoot this mugger.[/QUOTE] all I'm saying is fighting to the death in every single situation is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=AK'z;50240057]well you've not actually addressed the reality in any of the scenarios. the police are useless unless you've barricaded yourself in and everywhere else you would fight to the death and you will die.[/QUOTE] I absolutely have addressed the scenario. You are also missing the alternative: Option A: Fight, maybe die Option B: Don't fight, definitely die, possibly be raped [editline]2nd May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;50240162]all I'm saying is fighting to the death in every single situation is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Which is not what I implied at all I said that I'd call the police unless I was absolutely backed up If someone had a knife and they were going to rape me I'm going to pull the fucking trigger, and guess what? I'm not going to lose.
[QUOTE=AK'z;50240162]all I'm saying is fighting to the death in every single situation is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] And all we're saying is letting someone rob/mug/ransack/murder you or your property is legitimately retarded. Trusting them to "only" steal your shit is hilariously naive. Getting stabbed probably sucks, is all I'm saying.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50240142]And in all of those scenarios you're relying on the good will of a person wronging you to come out alive Seems like bad reasoning[/QUOTE] if someone is aggressive towards me, I'm going to do my best to defuse the situation. You think it's wise to approach immediately with your own each and every time? Not only will it be pointless, but I will only escalate the problem anyway. Someone points a gun at my head. Immediate aggression results in immediate death. That pride business is pointless, that castle business is pointless, what matters is what you want to do and all you want to do is fight, so be it.
I don't want to fight. I'm saying I will if I'm backed into a corner. You break into my house, I have to go through you to get out. If I get out, but I can't get my girlfriend put, she's going to get the consequences of that because I refused to fight on her behalf A home invasion is not a gun to your head so stop making totally fucking irrelevant comparisons
[QUOTE=AK'z;50240220]if someone is aggressive towards me, I'm going to do my best to defuse the situation. You think it's wise to approach immediately with your own each and every time? Not only will it be pointless, but I will only escalate the problem anyway. Someone points a gun at my head. Immediate aggression results in immediate death. That pride business is pointless, that castle business is pointless, what matters is what you want to do and all you want to do is fight, so be it.[/QUOTE] Yeah ok good luck defusing a situation with someone wacked out on pcp/meth/crack.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50240236] A home invasion is not a gun to your head so stop making totally fucking irrelevant comparisons[/QUOTE] I only said it because everyone has guns apparently. And whatever makes it "irrelevant" is kind of stupid considering this thread involves a thief apparently pointing a gun at a kid supposedly somewhere in the situation. [QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50240257]Yeah ok good luck defusing a situation with someone wacked out on pcp/meth/crack.[/QUOTE] when I work in an emergency dept, 9/10 times I do so thanks.
[QUOTE=Morgen;50227427]The intruder was leaving before he started firing. What sane person would be willing to end a life over some stuff?[/QUOTE] Personally, I think [quote]“When he was coming down the stairs, that’s when he told me he was going to kill me, f-you and all that,” Gaither said[/quote] is good enough reason for an 11-year old to start shooting at someone who could easily come back if not caught. Robbery? Fuck it, shooting at him is only going to make shit worse. You could hit him in some vital place that kills him, or you could miss, which is likely if you're having make a precise shot on a moving target, etc. But threatening to fucking kill you? When you're eleven and scared? When you realize the possibility that he [I]could[/I] come back? I can't speak for what I'd do in his situation, I wouldn't really know unless it happened to me, but I think he's got full justification. It's not like he's a reasonably thinking self-sufficient 30+ year old who could put money into security measures afterwards. He's an eleven year old child who was fearing for his life. [editline]a[/editline] Like I can't believe that you're acting like this child has fully developed frontal lobe, something that isn't fully grown until over double his fucking age.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50240236]I don't want to fight. I'm saying I will if I'm backed into a corner. You break into my house, I have to go through you to get out.[/QUOTE] Well my instinct is also to get out, which was one of the first points I made tbh. However, your response to me initially was to defend my home at all cost and not "let anyone dictate my life". I couldn't help but assume you wanted to fight, because you said it about 3 times to me. just to remind: [QUOTE=AK'z;50228036]the first natural response is to back away. I'm sorry if that's not cool, but unless you're barricaded indoors, I have no reason to engage with some crackpot. my house is not my fort, it's just a few bricks and some records.[/QUOTE] you specifically told me off for my post, but I said "[I]unless[/I] you're barricaded indoors do not engage", which in other words... "cornered" and that is the same thing.
When that guy broke into that older womens house back in early October and got shot, had they not had a gun, both the women inside could've ended up dead. He was already in the process of assaulting one of them, the other had been beaten badly. He started to assault the one after he heard her yell what's wrong from her room. He was likely going to kill both of them. As he beat her as she still lay in bed, the badly beaten woman retrieved a 38 out of her kitchen drawer, yelled, he came back in and got shot 4 times, died in the front yard. I like to use real world examples like this, because they are possible. The response time out there is 30 minutes. I am shocked that some of you people would have let them be beaten, just so the other guy could still live. Back to the original story on the boy, he was in fear for his life, and chances are , would or could have been killed at a later date, or as he thought, even that day. The police cannot be there for you when you need them, and many say to get ways to defend and protect yourself and your property.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;50240574]Back to the original story on the boy, he was in fear for his life, and chances are , would or could have been killed at a later date, or as he thought, even that day. The police cannot be there for you when you need them, and many say to get ways to defend and protect yourself and your property.[/QUOTE] this entire news story with the boy is so laughably unclear it's sad. I watched the interview clip about 5 times and here is the boy going through the events: "he's sitting down with his dogs, hears noise, grabs knife." "sees man, kid threatens man with knife and tells him to get out" "man ignores and bolts upstairs, meanwhile child wandering around downstairs with a knife shouting at the man to get out" "man comes downstairs with gun and threatens boy, boy still with knife says he will get a gun and kill him" "boy gets the gun, and threatens man, man runs out, boy shoots into the air as man is running" "now boy shoots at the man who is already left and halfway over the fence". Now... what kind of stupid arse kid, wastes time wandering around with a knife when his life is in danger. This kind of response is legitamately ridiculous. He had plenty of time to run away like any normal kid would do and instead he's wasting time with weapons he has no place using risking his own life. The scenario doesn't make sense and tbh I don't believe it happened anything like the kid says.
[QUOTE=AK'z;50240622]this entire news story with the boy is so laughably unclear it's sad. I watched the interview clip about 5 times and here is the boy going through the events: "he's sitting down with his dogs, hears noise, grabs knife." "sees man, kid threatens man with knife and tells him to get out" "man ignores and bolts upstairs, meanwhile child wandering around downstairs with a knife shouting at the man to get out" "man comes downstairs with gun and threatens boy, boy still with knife says he will get a gun and kill him" "boy gets the gun, and threatens man, man runs out, boy shoots into the air as man is running" "now boy shoots at the man who is already left and halfway over the fence". Now... what kind of stupid arse kid, wastes time wandering around with a knife when his life is in danger. This kind of response is legitamately ridiculous. He had plenty of time to run away like any normal kid would do and instead he's wasting time with weapons he has no place using risking his own life. The scenario doesn't make sense and tbh I don't believe it happened anything like the kid says.[/QUOTE] where the FUCK do you expect an 11 year old kid to run to outside of his own house? how the christ does that make sense to you? "Yeah 11 year old kid, just run away from your own house, the [b]one place you're allowed to feel safe.[/b] Disregard the fact that you have been conditioned since birth to [b]never leave the house if your parents are not home.[/b] Just run in, idk, any direction lol!"
[QUOTE=geel9;50240625]where the FUCK do you expect an 11 year old kid to run to outside of his own house? how the christ does that make sense to you? "Yeah 11 year old kid, just run away from your own house, the [b]one place you're allowed to feel safe.[/b]"[/QUOTE] uhhh how about the nearest sane adult?????? He is alone at home with a lunatic inside, how is he more safe by staying there???
[QUOTE=AK'z;50240630]uhhh how about the nearest sane adult?????? He is alone at home with a lunatic inside, how is he more safe by staying there???[/QUOTE] so you're telling a kid to run away from his own home at night and trust the first adult he sees holy shit dude
I put myself in the kids shoes... a madman comes inside, I'm 11 years old, I'm fucking out that house fuck it. I run to the nearest shop, I run to the nearest store, I have a million places of safety I can think of. This kid however, "umm u in my house, you get out I have a knife", "if not, I'm getting my daddy's gun". This is not normal. And I'm thinking he fabricated a lot of what happened. [editline]2nd May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=geel9;50240633]so you're telling a kid to run away from his own home at night and trust the first adult he sees holy shit dude[/QUOTE] it was 9am
[QUOTE=AK'z;50240653]I put myself in the kids shoes... a madman comes inside, I'm 11 years old, I'm fucking out that house fuck it. I run to the nearest shop, I run to the nearest store, I have a million places of safety I can think of. This kid however, "umm u in my house, you get out I have a knife", "if not, I'm getting my daddy's gun". This is not normal. And I'm thinking he fabricated a lot of what happened. [editline]2nd May 2016[/editline] it was 9am[/QUOTE] this kid lives in the middle of nowhere in the south. there aren't any stores to run to nearby. to this kid, his house is the only safe place in the world that he can be by himself. he has to defend it or die.
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