• Boy who shot intruder says suspect 'cried like a little baby'
    468 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Hellduck;50228743]You're really stretching the definition of immediate if you include leaving-and-coming-back-later.[/QUOTE] Well the threat is either face the dude now or face him when he shoots/bats/stabs/whatever you in your bed The guy is knowingly breaking into your home where it is legal to kill home invaders, repeatedly, and threatens to kill you. Will he come back? Is he being serious? He's seen your weapon and he's come before, why won't he come again, prepared to deal with your defense?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50228469]At the time the burglar said "I'm going to kill you"? Maybe there was a threat there. At the time the burglar was shot, which was as they were fleeing? No, there's not really a threat there. You don't shoot fleeing criminals, that is murder. You shoot criminals who are active threats to yourself. Someone running away, even if it's to get a weapon, isn't actively trying to kill you at that point in time. If you see them pick up a weapon? Pretty obvious threat there, but them just running away with some shit they picked up? Not a threat. People say "I'm going to kill you" all the fucking time, most burglars aren't actually going to act on that unless you escalate the violence first because it's not worth getting an assault or murder charge over a fucking picnic basket.[/QUOTE] This is where I differ from most people in that I don't really care. If they threatened you to steal your belongings, I don't really see why it matters if they live or die at that point. Doesn't matter if it's baseless - don't say things you don't mean. It's easy to look at that as "bloodthirsty", or "vile", or whatever word people like to use. And in some ways, I'd agree. But I also don't really care. I don't see it as a bad thing. Fuck people like this. I'm not going to judge people who don't follow my mindset but I see it as a little over the top to start judging people for not sparing lives like these. Quality of life is qualitative, not quantitative. "I'm going to murder you" is not something to be tossed around.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50228855]Do you think those eleven bullets you miss just vaporize when they pass the target?[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/LFG5RvN.jpg[/img] Have you ever been to the south
Can i just take a moment to ask all of you why you're actively trying to play devils advocate for home invaders? Like, y'know. Potentially some of the most dangerous people you could ever encounter in civilized society.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50229780]Can i just take a moment to ask all of you why you're actively trying to play devils advocate for home invaders? Like, y'know. Potentially some of the most dangerous people you could ever encounter in civilized society.[/QUOTE] I don't think the people advocating for saving life are bad. I think some are being a little judgmental, and that the principle is overly quantitative. There's unnecessary wasting of life for sure, but I think there's also a gray area that doesn't really matter at that point. It's whatever you want. I don't think this guy is that great. Threatening kids and breaking into their home to steal shit is dumb. I don't have sympathy. I'll totally hear out opposing opinions though, but I just can't see myself really vouching for this guy.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50229797]I don't think the people advocating for saving life are bad. I think some are being a little judgmental, and that the principle is overly quantitative. There's unnecessary wasting of life for sure, but I think there's also a gray area that doesn't really matter at that point. It's whatever you want. I don't think this guy is that great. Threatening kids and breaking into their home to steal shit is dumb. I don't have sympathy. I'll totally hear out opposing opinions though, but I just can't see myself really vouching for this guy.[/QUOTE] Keeping deaths as low as possible is almost always inherently good, but there are some people here who are going really fucking far to try and advocate for letting burglars have their way with you.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50229780]Can i just take a moment to ask all of you why you're actively trying to play devils advocate for home invaders? Like, y'know. Potentially some of the most dangerous people you could ever encounter in civilized society.[/QUOTE] I mean, it's worth sympathizing with them I think. Like any criminal, they're still a person. Even John Wayne Gacy was an innocent little boy at some point, but his upbringing and brain chemistry are what made him a serial killer. The same goes for a home invader. Being merciful and keeping mind of the fact that the person breaking into your house is still a person with complex history and motives is important, but like you said, some people go to extreme lengths to justify the actions of the criminal. There's a point at which your own safety overrules whatever excuses you can make for the intruder.
[QUOTE=srobins;50229825]I mean, it's worth sympathizing with them I think. Like any criminal, they're still a person. Even John Wayne Gacy was an innocent little boy at some point, but his upbringing and brain chemistry are what made him a serial killer. The same goes for a home invader. Being merciful and keeping mind of the fact that the person breaking into your house is still a person with complex history and motives is important, but like you said, some people go to extreme lengths to justify the actions of the criminal. There's a point at which your own safety overrules whatever excuses you can make for the intruder.[/QUOTE] I feel like context to their actions is only really relevant after the fact. Like, during the actual crime, nobody would be aware of it, especially not the occupants of the house, whom the burglar poses a threat to. Their background and motivations arent important until law enforcement and the courts get involved. Like, the guy might've had problems, figured the only way to help was to steal shit. But theres no way the 11 year old could've known that, and it still doesnt change that its wrong. My point with the "potentially some of the most dangerous people you could encounter" is due to the fact that they've snuck into or broke into your home, which by all means should be an extension of you as a person, a person whom you dont know their reason for being there or what they want to do. They could just as easily try to kill you in your sleep as steal your DVD player and theres no way for you to know which they'll do.
I'm asking an honest question here, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything: Why is it that people like to stop at the end of the yarn and say, "This is where we'll take care of the criminals"? If they're already in the middle of doing the crime, it's a bit too late. Sure, we could use resources by putting them in jail and trying to get them involved in some programs so they can turn the life around, but that's an effort that [I]we[/I] are doing for [I]them[/I]. And in the situation where they've just threatened to murder your child, it's quite hard to feel any sympathy, especially when they clearly don't care about the psychological toll they're going to have on your kid. Yeah, people come from all kinds of backgrounds, and it's terrible. That shit sucks. But I think it's best to fix the background and not the people that have come from it. We can do both, but it seems more like a feel-good measure to focus on the output rather than the process. It's why I have such a love for the stories of serial killers. I can sympathize with serial killers to some extent, and I'd love to come up with a fix. But it's also not my place to say, "spare Mr. Gacey. He had a rough childhood." I'd argue that it's more selfish to spare criminals and demonize the people that deal with them in the heat of the moment, or with capital punishment in very severe cases. I mean, looking through this thread it seems like more people wanted the kid to just deal with it. "Just deal with being powerless. We can fix [I]you[/I] later." Why does the criminal have to be prioritized more than the kid? How are they not lesser in the situation? Why does their outcome matter? They went all in with their chips. If anything happens to them, it's on them.
[QUOTE=srobins;50229825]I mean, it's worth sympathizing with them I think. Like any criminal, they're still a person. Even John Wayne Gacy was an innocent little boy at some point, but his upbringing and brain chemistry are what made him a serial killer. The same goes for a home invader. Being merciful and keeping mind of the fact that the person breaking into your house is still a person with complex history and motives is important, but like you said, some people go to extreme lengths to justify the actions of the criminal. There's a point at which your own safety overrules whatever excuses you can make for the intruder.[/QUOTE] No, no he wasn't, we know this medically, we know this empirically through his autopsy. He was ignorant, he never innocent. He said this himself, much less the physical issue with his brain, and that's where the issue starts: [quote] a liberal is a conservative who's never been brutalized or victimized [/quote] somewhat seems to apply. "A life is never worth property" sounds like the way it should be, for poor people this is obviously not the case, and you can pick any world news source to see this is a great theory for the warm snuggly hugs that is pretty much practiced nowhere there is poverty or massive inequality of lifestyle and defenestrated on a daily basis. [quote] you can just buy all your stuff again [/quote] On a 10-20K a year salary or way WAY less? No, no you can't, and that's why a $300 purchase and a 3 day waiting period becomes a thing, and becomes an option. Not everyone has a suburban utopia to roll around in, rather most don't.
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;50229771][img]http://i.imgur.com/LFG5RvN.jpg[/img] Have you ever been to the south[/QUOTE] Yeah I lived in Texas. I doubt Govna lives in a giant field.
Dumbass got what he deserved, you burglarize a home you better be prepared to be shot. I'm glad he wasn't killed though, because then he can't learn from his lessons, and he might become a contributing member of society someday.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50230027]Yeah I lived in Texas. I doubt Govna lives in a giant field.[/QUOTE] this is a capture of his front lawn so
The fact that people on the first few pages were calling the kid a psychopath-in-making boggles my mind. You're 11-years old and you have a [I]gun[/I] drawn on an invader coming downstairs. Robber says he's going to kill you, meaning he either didn't see it, thinks it's fake, or just doesn't [I]care.[/I] You're shit-scared, so you start shooting and because you're 11-years old, you're terrified and pumped with adrenaline. You keep shooting until you can't. I'm not saying what he did was the correct course of action, I'm saying I can understand it considering how young he was and the stress he was probably under.
This thread makes me depressed. Calling a kid a psycho for stopping someone who was actively threatening his life. I'm of an the opinion that just invading someone's home is a threat to their life, but he was actually fucking saying it.
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;50230304]this is a capture of his front lawn so[/QUOTE] Govna is the 11 year old child in the OP?
That kid is pretty lucky,have a gun and can operate it Meanwhile,in my place,gun is strictly forbidden,so i have to place some weapon in strategic positon (Ice pick,hammer,homemade nunchuck,etc) Never been robbed because my house sorta defended like a fortress (double layered door,Bottle spikes on the wall,barbed gate) but its good to make preparation if shit ever happened
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50229854]I'm asking an honest question here, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything: Why is it that people like to stop at the end of the yarn and say, "This is where we'll take care of the criminals"? If they're already in the middle of doing the crime, it's a bit too late. Sure, we could use resources by putting them in jail and trying to get them involved in some programs so they can turn the life around, but that's an effort that [I]we[/I] are doing for [I]them[/I]. And in the situation where they've just threatened to murder your child, it's quite hard to feel any sympathy, especially when they clearly don't care about the psychological toll they're going to have on your kid. Yeah, people come from all kinds of backgrounds, and it's terrible. That shit sucks. But I think it's best to fix the background and not the people that have come from it. We can do both, but it seems more like a feel-good measure to focus on the output rather than the process. It's why I have such a love for the stories of serial killers. I can sympathize with serial killers to some extent, and I'd love to come up with a fix. But it's also not my place to say, "spare Mr. Gacey. He had a rough childhood." I'd argue that it's more selfish to spare criminals and demonize the people that deal with them in the heat of the moment, or with capital punishment in very severe cases. I mean, looking through this thread it seems like more people wanted the kid to just deal with it. "Just deal with being powerless. We can fix [I]you[/I] later." Why does the criminal have to be prioritized more than the kid? How are they not lesser in the situation? Why does their outcome matter? They went all in with their chips. If anything happens to them, it's on them.[/QUOTE] The kid was safe, wasn't he. As has been established and pointed out many times by me (and conveniently ignored by everyone..) the guy was [B]running away[/B]. He wasn't an immediate threat to the kid. Shooting a guy who's advancing at you who is also holding a gun/knife, sure, that's fine. You're protecting your life. Shooting a man who is running away from the scene, that's not self defence. As soon as you're in a safe position to, you call the police and hide. You don't go after the potential maniac like you're the Punisher or something.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;50231058]The kid was safe, wasn't he. As has been established and pointed out many times by me (and conveniently ignored by everyone..) the guy was [B]running away[/B]. He wasn't an immediate threat to the kid. Shooting a guy who's advancing at you who is also holding a gun/knife, sure, that's fine. You're protecting your life. Shooting a man who is running away from the scene, that's not self defence. As soon as you're in a safe position to, you call the police and hide. You don't go after the potential maniac like you're the Punisher or something.[/QUOTE] [I]You[/I] try having your house broken into by a dude who's saying he's gonna fucking murder you. Then tell me if you were completely lucid and able to make thought-out decisions at the time.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;50231121][I]You[/I] try having your house broken into by a dude who's saying he's gonna fucking murder you. Then tell me if you were completely lucid and able to make thought-out decisions at the time.[/QUOTE] My panicked decision certainly wouldn't be to pop a few caps with my gat. It'd be to shit myself and hide.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;50231058]The kid was safe, wasn't he. As has been established and pointed out many times by me (and conveniently ignored by everyone..) the guy was [B]running away[/B]. He wasn't an immediate threat to the kid. Shooting a guy who's advancing at you who is also holding a gun/knife, sure, that's fine. You're protecting your life. Shooting a man who is running away from the scene, that's not self defence. As soon as you're in a safe position to, you call the police and hide. You don't go after the potential maniac like you're the Punisher or something.[/QUOTE] Are you so entrenched in your opinion that you can't even bear to comprehend the fact that he was a [I]scared child?[/I] Also hey, fun fact. If someone already has a gun or knife trained on you and they're close, odds are pretty decent that it's too late to fight back. The guy was ignoring the fact that the kid already had a gun and went on to state that he was going to kill him. If that's not enough to send an 11-year-old into a panic, I don't know what is. Nobody is a perfectly logical moral robot in situations of extreme stress, especially a child. Also [img]http://i.imgur.com/Z0AiVfz.png[/img] n i c e, dude.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;50231218]My panicked decision certainly wouldn't be to pop a few caps with my gat. It'd be to shit myself and hide.[/QUOTE] Well, some people have been found and shot while "Shitting themselves and hiding", so next step, cops are 20 minutes away, you got a gun, what do you do if someone breaks in and is verbally abusive and threatens you?
Its not that I don't think it wasn't justified, it 100% was, I think the boy needs counseling for his reaction.
Oh dear another thread full of middle class suburban liberals saying how evil the kid is despite probably never being confronted with a situation like this in their entire cushy lives lol.
Jesus fuck half this thread is literally European FPers trying to dictate what happens during a home invasion to Americans. Like it fucking laughable what is m seeing because nearly all the arguments that this kid is a crazed killer hold no water and it's just Antigun circle jerk. Jesus Christ, I live in Alabama and you fully except to rob someone's house, don't bitch and moan if someone pulls a weapon you for breaking in.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50231626]Its not that I don't think it wasn't justified, it 100% was, I think the boy needs counseling for his reaction.[/QUOTE] Hey, kid was right, for a guy who talks a lot of shit, he sure cries like a baby when shot in the leg.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;50231058]The kid was safe, wasn't he. As has been established and pointed out many times by me (and conveniently ignored by everyone..) the guy was [B]running away[/B]. He wasn't an immediate threat to the kid. Shooting a guy who's advancing at you who is also holding a gun/knife, sure, that's fine. You're protecting your life. Shooting a man who is running away from the scene, that's not self defence. As soon as you're in a safe position to, you call the police and hide. You don't go after the potential maniac like you're the Punisher or something.[/QUOTE] What is your [i]problem.[/i] Like holy fuck dude, you keep going on "psychopath" this, "sociopath" that. But you? You're straight up saying this kid is a bad person for panicking, you're calling the US a state in eternal fear, because some people disagree with you on the topic of [b]DEFENDING YOURSELF AND YOUR HOME.[/b] You're blatantly ignoring almost all of the context to try and get non existent zings in on people you dont know in a country you've never been to on a continent you're not on in regards to laws and regulations you seem to only have the most basic grasp of using your countries standards as the be all end all. Should i go snooping around to see the statistics related to home invasion related murders in the UK? I feel like i should snoop around for the statistics of home invasion related murders in the UK.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50230027]Yeah I lived in Texas. I doubt Govna lives in a giant field.[/QUOTE] I live in Missouri in a town of like 5,000 people. We're surrounded by giant fields and pastures and woods beyond that. The worst thing you could hit with a stray bullet from my house, or 11 stray bullets for that matter, is a cow. Like Radical_ed pointed out, it's the south. If this had been in a metropolitan area, then that would have been one matter warranting concern. But it wasn't, and that's that. It was out in Bumfuck, Nowhere. [QUOTE=plunger435;50230841]Govna is the 11 year old child in the OP?[/QUOTE] The 11-year-old child in question lives out in the middle of nowhere, not in a crowded metropolitan area like you and others are trying to make it sound where those 11 stray bullets could have done serious damage to bystanders and property. That is his point. You have a gift for ignoring critical details. [editline]30 April 2016[/editline] It's really easy to differentiate who paid attention to this story vs. who didn't read past the headline/snippets in the OP and are just running with whatever half-formed, useless opinions they've concocted off of them.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;50231218]My panicked decision certainly wouldn't be to pop a few caps with my gat.[/QUOTE] Are you serious right now. So in an attempt to discredit their argument you start talking in some gang speak you likely heard in San Andreas? Is that what im reading right now? [QUOTE=ElectronicG19;50231218]It'd be to shit myself and hide.[/QUOTE] Alright. Are you the norm for literally the rest of the planet?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50231638]Oh dear another thread full of middle class suburban liberals saying how evil the kid is despite probably never being confronted with a situation like this in their entire cushy lives lol.[/QUOTE] See, I don't have any problem with the kid defending himself in that manner, what I'm finding somewhat chilling is his response afterwards, which seems more than a little desensitised to the violence he inflicted. Not saying he is wrong to have done so, but that his reaction to having done so is cause for concern.
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