You'll need to download the rest of Forza 5 at launch... otherwise you cant play it. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=KeitaroCoS;41494380]The servers will be able to totally handle all this traffic right? ... right?[/QUOTE] [img]http://info.temperaturealert.com/Portals/211178/images/meltedrack.jpg[/img] [i]suuuuuure[/i]

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41495476]Forza is hilarious with how unrealistic their modification and tuning system is. I think the best example is this car [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun_510[/url] 90 HP, one ton car that can be modified to over 1000 HP. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8pCzlTJ6xo[/media][/QUOTE] I don't know anything about cars, but I'm pretty sure a car like that can't do that unless you take an actual race car, strip the frame and mod the body, and add that frame onto it

[QUOTE=Strike 86;41496868]Disagree - I think GT5's car physics are infinitely superior to Forza's. Forza has always handled like crap - the steering wheel jerks and moves around in a straight line on a perfectly smooth track and the cars float over the road like the tyres are made of cardboard. The sound is definitely better, though. GT5's cars all sounds like a chorus of middle-aged men humming.[/QUOTE] Have you ever driven a real car, hard? The way tyres act while on the limit of grip, in Forza is SPOT ON. In GT5 it just feels like your grip never ends, even though there's understeer EVERYWHERE. And every car in Gran Turismo 5 felt like a land boat.

I think both Forza and GT have a lot to improve on, but since they're on different consoles they don't really care about competing.

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;41494415]-insert witty comment about nobody buying xbox one- :v: No seriously, this is a fucking shitty idea. Edit: Oh look, ZachPL disagrees with me....what a shocker.[/QUOTE] They're basically trying to hurry the game to be out for the Xbox's launch. While that might sound shitty in itself, they've done this on purpose so that they can keep developing the game while Microsoft are already running it through QA and pressing the discs. If a game had to be ready in time for launch I'd rather they issue mandatory DLC than just saying "well we've done all we could, time for launch". The OP also "forgot" to mention that it's a completely free download, you're not losing anything but a bit of time downloading it, but I feel that was left out to fuel the anti-Xbox circlejerk.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;41497998]Have you ever driven a real car, hard? The way tyres act while on the limit of grip, in Forza is SPOT ON. In GT5 it just feels like your grip never ends, even though there's understeer EVERYWHERE. And every car in Gran Turismo 5 felt like a land boat.[/QUOTE] I think you must've been playing with some assists on - I've thrashed my NA MX-5 along B-roads and slid around roundabouts and it feels just like its digital equivalent. The lack of roll is definitely an issue, but aside from that it's pretty spot on. The breakaway point and the way the car reacts to pendulum-like inputs is remarkably genuine. I dislike Forza's handling model mostly because of the inputs and outputs - you brush the stick and the car lunges across the track because of the tiny steering dead zone, making it a pain to hold a solid line. There's no real sense of the front tyres biting into the road when you enter a turn either - it feels loose and disconnected. The brakes and throttle are also horrendously binary. Forza also burdens you with far too much sensory input - stuff you correct automatically and without thought in a real car is exaggerated is Forza 4 so you're constantly making corrections and adjustments to your car even in a straight line. The camera was a well known fault with Forza 3 but I don't think 4 is an improvement to be honest - mount a rumble strip or fly over a crest in GT5 and you get a corresponding screen movement. In F4 only the brakes and throttle seem to unstick the camera, not the road surface, and this stuff is hugely important given that you can't feel the undulations in the road through your arse in a game. All of this is somewhat subjective - your preference will depend on your driving style in real life. All I know is GT5's felt instantly intuitive and familiar to me, and Forza feels simultaneously stiff and frantically twitchy.

PLEASE; give me more reasons to not want to buy your products, Microsoft.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;41495849]This isn't a fair comparison at all. When you bought HL2, you received all of HL2 at launch (either on disc or through Steam). The episodes are standalone games you paid for, and received, and played separately from HL2 itself. This is a game being shipped incomplete so the developers can ship the rest when it's done. Rather than taking the sensible option of just delaying the launch of the game a few months more to actually get it working. Is the One really that desperate for launch titles than they think this is a good idea?[/QUOTE] When you think about it, if you got Half-Life 2 say a week after its launch and went to install it you would still have to download bug fixes and what not before you could actually play the game. This really pisses me off with games on Steam where you have to download DLC you might not even own before you can get into the game.

[QUOTE=pentium;41494408]I give it a week.[/QUOTE] Of servers being down? I agree.

[QUOTE=TheAdmiester;41498709]They're basically trying to hurry the game to be out for the Xbox's launch. While that might sound shitty in itself, they've done this on purpose so that they can keep developing the game while Microsoft are already running it through QA and pressing the discs. If a game had to be ready in time for launch I'd rather they issue mandatory DLC than just saying "well we've done all we could, time for launch". The OP also "forgot" to mention that it's a completely free download, you're not losing anything but a bit of time downloading it, but I feel that was left out to fuel the anti-Xbox circlejerk.[/QUOTE]Yes but I was under the impression that the whole purpose of a console was plug in and play. Why can't they take just one additional month to put all the content into the game, so that way people without internet don't get fucked over?

[QUOTE=Strike 86;41499272]I think you must've been playing with some assists on - I've thrashed my NA MX-5 along B-roads and slid around roundabouts and it feels just like its digital equivalent. The lack of roll is definitely an issue, but aside from that it's pretty spot on. The breakaway point and the way the car reacts to pendulum-like inputs is remarkably genuine. I dislike Forza's handling model mostly because of the inputs and outputs - you brush the stick and the car lunges across the track because of the tiny steering dead zone, making it a pain to hold a solid line. There's no real sense of the front tyres biting into the road when you enter a turn either - it feels loose and disconnected. The brakes and throttle are also horrendously binary. Forza also burdens you with far too much sensory input - stuff you correct automatically and without thought in a real car is exaggerated is Forza 4 so you're constantly making corrections and adjustments to your car even in a straight line. The camera was a well known fault with Forza 3 but I don't think 4 is an improvement to be honest - mount a rumble strip or fly over a crest in GT5 and you get a corresponding screen movement. In F4 only the brakes and throttle seem to unstick the camera, not the road surface, and this stuff is hugely important given that you can't feel the undulations in the road through your arse in a game. All of this is somewhat subjective - your preference will depend on your driving style in real life. All I know is GT5's felt instantly intuitive and familiar to me, and Forza feels simultaneously stiff and frantically twitchy.[/QUOTE] The way Forza plays for me is like the complete opposite of the way you explain it. I drive in real life as well and although I wouldn't say Forza 4 is completely real it does get pretty damn close. Perhaps it's because I play with a gamepad though. Oh yeah just for the following points keep in mind I play with simulation handling, manual with clutch, no driver assists and no electronic assists. Not to sound like I'm bragging but haha. - Steering to me is heaps smooth and can be very precise. It's certainly not a NFS Shift - nudge the thumb pad very slightly but you end up doing a complete 180. Also on steering to me Forza does the best simulation of under steer, just no other games have come close to providing such a simulation and as I drive a FWD in real life I can relate to saying that it is realistic. - I don't understand what you mean by the brakes and throttle being heaps binary, they are the complete opposite of binary. Without ABS you really need to feather the brakes and try to reach a 'sweet spot' that delivers best braking without locking the wheels. Of course if you just slammed on the brakes you would lock the wheels and fuck up your performance. - Feathering the throttle is also extremely important without traction control in cars such as the V8 Supercars and Le Mans Prototypes. If you went full throttle from a stop you would be going nowhere fast. When doing power drifts in a drift car setup feathering the throttle is also important to maintain an ideal drift and not spin out. - Perhaps I'll agree on the third person camera because it is pretty dodgy in Forza 4, however I only ever drive in first person view so it doesn't affect me. I don't think GT5's camera is any better seeing as it is pretty much just planted at a fixed point behind the cars. [editline]18th July 2013[/editline] Oh yeah a criticism about something else in Forza: Yes Forza fans like to mention how Forza has the engine-swap feature but it's just a wank feature it only lets you put in an engine from one other car, eg with the Skyline GT-R R34 you can only engine swap it with a Nissan GT-R R35 engine. Engine swapping in a game to me is only going to be worth it when I can get a Fairlady Z S30 and drop a V8 into it. Then we're talking. Another thing is that the names of cars are so inconsistent. In the shop and on the track the same car has two different names. Then you have things like the V8 Supercars which are called 'FG Falcon' and 'Commodore VE', yet for the latter the VE should be at the front to be consistent with the FG Falcon seeing as those two letters in both tell what generation the model is.

idk why people are complaining, Skyrim and Fallout all had day-one patches, thats almost exactly the same

[QUOTE=meppers;41494430]Gran turismo is better anyways[/QUOTE] I'd start talking about how they're different sorts of games and what not but the near-perfect agree/disagree split has already said everything that needs to be said.

[QUOTE=Sableye;41500681]idk why people are complaining, Skyrim and Fallout all had day-one patches, thats almost exactly the same[/QUOTE] The difference is that Skyrim and Fallout were at least playable (by Bethesda standards anyway) and contained the full game on disc even if you were unable to download the patch. Here you're missing a significant amount of content if you don't download it.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41495476]Forza is hilarious with how unrealistic their modification and tuning system is. I think the best example is this car [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun_510[/url] 90 HP, one ton car that can be modified to over 1000 HP. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8pCzlTJ6xo[/media][/QUOTE] That's because they've put the engine from a [I]Skyline GT-R R34[/I] in it. If you keep the stock engine block and just upgrade it, it won't make nearly as much power. [editline]17th July 2013[/editline] The engine swaps and drivetrain swaps can be wildly unrealistic - IIRC, it's possible to put a Dodge Viper V10 engine inside a Dodge Neon, which has an entirely different drivetrain layout and a fraction of the engine bay space - but if you don't do the conversions the upgrades are relatively realistic.

"Well we saw the shit Capcom got from their community for putting DLC on the disk and figured we'd go in the exact opposite direction. No DLC on the disk, not to mention some of the game itself."

[QUOTE=Midas22;41495378]Can I sue them for selling me an incomplete product?[/QUOTE] Sue everybody who releases a digital product that needs to be patched. You'll be swimming in money!

-god damn it i can't read properly-

[QUOTE=Reds;41502230]There's a hole in your statement the size of Texas. There is a massive difference between a full game that is released and then has problems and glitched patched out, or additional content patched in, and a game that is [I]stated[/I] to be incomplete but they're selling it to you anyway in an unplayable state and telling you to come back later because they'll give you the rest then, they swear. [editline]18th July 2013[/editline] They are selling you a product that doesn't work, basically.[/QUOTE] you do get the full game on release day..

[QUOTE=Reds;41502230]There's a hole in your statement the size of Texas. There is a massive difference between a full game that is released and then has problems and glitched patched out, or additional content patched in, and a game that is [I]stated[/I] to be incomplete but they're selling it to you anyway in an unplayable state and telling you to come back later because they'll give you the rest then, they swear. [editline]18th July 2013[/editline] They are selling you a product that doesn't work, basically.[/QUOTE] well yeah, one's unintentional and the other one is completely intentional, stated by the devs, and you know exactly what you're getting before you pay for it

[QUOTE=Gustafa;41494535]I'd much rather they just delayed the game rather than releasing unfinished content...[/QUOTE] They're probably forced to release it by a Publisher.

To be honest, I can't really remember a recent AAA (PC) game that didn't have a day one patch. Then again, those games were probably playable offline, out of the box. If this game isn't, then that's fucked up and you're essentially selling a broken product.