Feminists fight to ban prostitution in Germany - Polidicks

A WOMAN SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHATEVER SHE WANTS Unless she wants to be a stay at home mum, prostitute, or porn star.

Not saying there is but lets just speculate here: What if there was conclusive evidence that would show that legalized prostitution drove more women into the job because of the lower entry barrier? Interesting thought and kind of a dilemma.

[QUOTE=Killuah;43029348]Not saying there is but lets just speculate here: What if there was conclusive evidence that would show that legalized prostitution drove more women into the job because of the lower entry barrier? Interesting thought and kind of a dilemma.[/QUOTE] So what?

[QUOTE=Killuah;43029348]Not saying there is but lets just speculate here: What if there was conclusive evidence that would show that legalized prostitution drove more women into the job because of the lower entry barrier? Interesting thought and kind of a dilemma.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't think so. Something like strippers.

Isn't this like the opposite of feminism? "We want women to have rights!" and at the same time "We want laws over what women are allowed to do with their bodies!"

[QUOTE=NiandraLades;43029187]A better way to go about this wouldn't be to ban it entirely, but make sure those who are sex workers have protection, are in safe environments, etc. Instead of fighting to ban something that a lot of people rely on, fight so they are able to do it in a safe and empowering way.[/QUOTE] There's something of a significant and acrimonious rift between feminists who want what's above and a smaller group which tries to attack prostitution and whatnot. The latter group is not popular, not least for the reason that they get in the way of helping marginalized women. There's also a not insubstantial overlap between anti-trans and anti-prostitution feminism.

the problem with prostitution is that it treats women as a commodity to be bought and sold for money.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029478]the problem with prostitution is that it treats women as a commodity to be bought and sold for money.[/QUOTE] No, it's no different from anything else, a person offers a service and sells said service at a price.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029478]the problem with prostitution is that it treats women as a commodity to be bought and sold for money.[/QUOTE] this works pretty much the same way for male prostitutes, and most of them understand the problems of being one. You could say the same thing for a lot of low-paying jobs, they are degrading but banning it will only give people less job opportunities.

Kids cutting their neighbors lawns turns them into commodities to be bought and sold for money!!!1

[QUOTE=Advancedrock;43029501]No, it's no different from anything else, a person offers a service and sells said service at a price.[/QUOTE] except this thing is a person's sexuality. it means that a woman's body is just a product to be bought.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029513]except this thing is a person's sexuality. it means that a woman's body is just a product to be bought.[/QUOTE] as long as said woman is in control of it there shouldnt be a problem

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;43029504]this works pretty much the same way for male prostitutes, and most of them understand the problems of being one. You could say the same thing for a lot of low-paying jobs, they are degrading but banning it will only give people less job opportunities.[/QUOTE] how many male prostitutes are there compared to women? a man's body and sexuality is not something that can be bought or sold to the same degree. a man's sexuality is special, a woman's is not. and banning prostitution doesn't work so that idea should be off the table immediately. the problem can't be solved through brute legislation.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029513]except this thing is a person's sexuality. it means that a woman's body is just a product to be bought.[/QUOTE] You do realize that it's their job and how they know that they are selling their bodies, right? And most prostitutes don't brag about their job or claim that it's great, they know it's not something to be proud of.

[QUOTE=Juniez;43029527]as long as said woman is in control of it there shouldnt be a problem[/QUOTE] well yea and regulating the market might be one way to help ensure women have more control. however, legalized prostitution shouldn't be an end-goal. the goal should be to shift towards a world where we don't look at sex as a commodity anymore.

[QUOTE=Juniez;43029527]as long as said woman is in control of it there shouldnt be a problem[/QUOTE] Even with simple jobs like burger flipper there often are people doing the job who don't really want to do them but are in control of their doing at least from a legal perspective and by law. Now extrapolate to prostitution.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029533]a man's sexuality is special, a woman's is not. [/QUOTE] what?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029544]well yea and regulating the market might be one way to help ensure women have more control. however, legalized prostitution shouldn't be an end-goal. the goal should be to shift towards a world where we don't look at sex as a commodity anymore.[/QUOTE] or a world where people can do what they want with their bodies without ol christian men telling them otherwise

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029544]the goal should be to shift towards a world where we don't look at sex as a commodity anymore.[/QUOTE] Why not? Demand exists for sex and it hasn't weakened for the past few tens of thousands of years.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029513]except this thing is a person's sexuality. it means that a woman's body is just a product to be bought.[/QUOTE] Prostitutes don't sell their bodies. They sell a service. Just like every other job. Unless you are talking about selling body organs, but pretty sure that's not what prostitution is.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029544]the goal should be to shift towards a world where we don't look at sex as a commodity anymore.[/QUOTE]I'd argue that's the complete wrong way about it. Its like the thread about Evan Rachel Wood. Its creates the idea that people shouldn't regard sex openly, that its something to be avoided. Why can't sex be a commodity if all parties are knowledge, consenting, and safe?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43029559]Why not? Demand exists for sex and it hasn't weakened for the past few tens of thousands of years.[/QUOTE] how did we stop using slaves? [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;43029570]I'd argue that's the complete wrong way about it. Its like the thread about Evan Rachel Wood. Its creates the idea that people shouldn't regard sex openly, that its something to be avoided. Why can't sex be a commodity if all parties are knowledge, consenting, and safe?[/QUOTE] you can regard sex openly without telling women that their bodies are simply objects to be sold on the market.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029544]well yea and regulating the market might be one way to help ensure women have more control. however, legalized prostitution shouldn't be an end-goal. the goal should be to shift towards a world where we don't look at sex as a commodity anymore.[/QUOTE] as nice as that would be, i think that allowing prostitution with heavy regulation is probably the most practical option for Germany's government. i don't think that legalizing it is really part of anybody's endgame in terms of societal change, it's just nice to have

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029513]except this thing is a person's sexuality. it means that a woman's body is just a product to be bought.[/QUOTE] "I paid a person to wash my car and now I own them" The woman still keeps their own body and life after the sex. They're just selling a service dude, get a grip.

[QUOTE=Cone;43029596]as nice as that would be, i think that allowing prostitution with heavy regulation is probably the most practical option for Germany's government. i don't think that legalizing it is really part of anybody's endgame in terms of societal change, it's just nice to have[/QUOTE] i'm not against legalization. people were asking how feminists or anyone could be against prostitution. i was answering that. prostitution is harmful, but it is more harmful in black markets. [QUOTE=Viper202;43029601]"I paid a person to wash my car and now I own them" The woman still keeps their own body and life after the sex. They're just selling a service dude, get a grip.[/QUOTE] they are renting their body then. that's a more accurate way to phrase it.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029592]telling women that their bodies are simply objects to be sold on the market.[/QUOTE]Yet no one is. No rational person tells women they are just a commodity or argues they just need to sell themselves. The argument is that they should be free to do so if they wish.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029592]how did we stop using slaves? [/QUOTE] Are you seriously having trouble understanding the differences between a paying job and slavery? [QUOTE=yawmwen;43029592] you can regard sex openly without telling women that their bodies are simply objects to be sold on the market.[/QUOTE] But this is their job, with your logic you could say that engineers are bringing back slavery just because they get paid by people to repair homes.

[QUOTE=Viper202;43029601]"I paid a person to wash my car and now I own them" The woman still keeps their own body and life after the sex. They're just selling a service dude, get a grip.[/QUOTE] It's not a simple service, there is so much more to sex than the simple in and out but it's kind of understandable that the bigger part of FP doesn't know this.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43029609]they are renting their body then. that's a more accurate way to phrase it.[/QUOTE] Every single job ever is "renting" yourself. Prostitutes are selling a service not their bodies.

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;43029620]Are you seriously having trouble understanding the differences between a paying job and slavery? [/QUOTE] no i was asking a serious question. there was huge demand for slavery for thousands of years. how did that demand begin to drop? how did we get to the point where we looked at slavery as a disgusting practice? maybe that can guide us to eventually make prostitution an undesired aspect of society.