Michigan Republicans moving to privatize education in Detroit
58 replies, posted
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;38698227]Oh the democrats are wonderful people who want the best for america and its people right?
imo the teachers' unions suck, though making it only privatized wouldn't be the way to go.[/QUOTE]
Teacher's Unions are important so that teachers don't get fired or mistreated for shitty administration. They do have far too much power, however.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;38697403]The NCLB Act didn't fail because it was "trying to force schools to improve", it failed because it was terrible fucking garbage.[/QUOTE]
did anyone even like NCLB
seriously, i've never talked to anyone from anywhere on the political spectrum that thought it was a good idea
Detroit can't even afford a decent police force. Not really a shocker they're trying to cut other things.
Why didn't you stop this, the people of America.
For years the communists warned you what would happen with capitalistic systems but you didn't listen.
Now there's no salvation for you
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38697345]The entire point of privatizing education is that the parents and kids AREN'T forced to go to one specific shitty public school. Instead, they have the choice of going to a private school that would hopefully be less shitty because they actually have competition.
Public schools have no competition, and therefore zero reason to improve. Trying to force them never ends well (see: No Child Left Behind Act).[/QUOTE]
I get that, I really do. However, you can't honestly expect to tell me that by somehow making people pay for school, they will automagically start to care about their education. What you are doing is making people go to schools that they now have to pay for, in order to get an education.
Also, what happens when the very low end cannot afford schooling? There has to be an option for them! There will probably be a very select number of public schools still available in Wisconson that allow the students to go there for free, but they will be overcrowded and again, really shitty.
Privatizing education might work, if every single person in Detroit was rich enough to afford good schooling for their children and the children wanted to put in the effort. Sadly, that isn't the case whatsoever.
It's a political move.
There are no unions in private schools if I am not mistaken.
OCP Schools
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38697345]The entire point of privatizing education is that the parents and kids AREN'T forced to go to one specific shitty public school. Instead, they have the choice of going to a private school that would hopefully be less shitty because they actually have competition.
Public schools have no competition, and therefore zero reason to improve. Trying to force them never ends well (see: No Child Left Behind Act).[/QUOTE]
A private school doesn't have to educate, it just has to make money. That can be done through exploiting tax loopholes, having better marketing while not necessarily providing better education, or just having a larger but perhaps not smarter base of people to pay them.
Remember, the end result of a business is always to make money. Providing a better product is just a means to that end, and it can be exchanged with anything else as it become convenient.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;38695714]My past physics teacher who taught in private school said it was a joke. They are so lenient on the kids most of the time that they would rarely assign due dates for work. They would but if you didnt get it turned in they would add another week, and another, and another. He ended up leaving private school because the one he taught at he was basically forced to pass his kids eventhough they knew nothing about what they were doing.
Not saying all of them are like this, but it would make sense if the parents are paying the school directly.[/QUOTE]
That isn't a public/private thing.
They do the same thing in public high schools. The kid doesn't do anything and comes around at the end of the quarter/semester. Since there's this huge stigma against failing kids and holding them back a class, the student is usually offered (or demands themselves) extra credit. We all know it's usually some token effort to get bumped up to the next level.
It seems to even happen at the university level. I'm at a public university and they seem so dead set on making sure everyone graduates in 4 years. Sounds good, but I've seen teachers have to re-curve classes because too many people failed and the chancellor gives them a call. Yeah sometimes professors are shitty with that, but sometimes kids are just dumb asses.
Seems America has two libertarian parties.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;38698328]Detroit can't even afford a decent police force. Not really a shocker they're trying to cut other things.[/QUOTE]
They can't even afford [url=http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18711676/2012/06/05/authority-would-fix-broken-detroit-streetlights]to fix their streetlights[/url].
Being a public official in Detroit sounds like it would be a nightmare.
ron pauls dream is coming true
[QUOTE=UserDirk580;38701963]That isn't a public/private thing.
They do the same thing in public high schools. The kid doesn't do anything and comes around at the end of the quarter/semester. Since there's this huge stigma against failing kids and holding them back a class, the student is usually offered (or demands themselves) extra credit. We all know it's usually some token effort to get bumped up to the next level.
It seems to even happen at the university level. I'm at a public university and they seem so dead set on making sure everyone graduates in 4 years. Sounds good, but I've seen teachers have to re-curve classes because too many people failed and the chancellor gives them a call. Yeah sometimes professors are shitty with that, but sometimes kids are just dumb asses.[/QUOTE]
There's also the issue that if you have classes of kids who are all failing, the finger starts being pointed at the teacher.
Some of my teachers back in high school were [b]so[/b] lenient when it came to marking, because they would be the ones looking bad if all of their pupils were failing.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38702149]Seems America has two libertarian parties.[/QUOTE]
Libertarian means both economically AND socially liberal. Current Republican party policies are nowhere NEAR socially liberal. Or even economically liberal, for all their talk about "small government". And Democrats are near the same place, just slightly less economically liberal and slightly more socially liberal.
Speaking of private schools, I went to one and Canada and it was very strict. It just depends on where you go I guess.
[QUOTE=Demache;38702286]They can't even afford [url=http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18711676/2012/06/05/authority-would-fix-broken-detroit-streetlights]to fix their streetlights[/url].
Being a public official in Detroit sounds like it would be a nightmare.[/QUOTE]
Detroit city council is fucking retarded. Every time something needs to be changed they kick and scream like children and nothing gets done.
They are one of the big reasons the city is in such rough shape.
[QUOTE=Cone;38699662]A private school doesn't have to educate, it just has to make money. That can be done through exploiting tax loopholes, having better marketing while not necessarily providing better education, or just having a larger but perhaps not smarter base of people to pay them.
Remember, the end result of a business is always to make money. Providing a better product is just a means to that end, and it can be exchanged with anything else as it become convenient.[/QUOTE]
The schools' new product would be consumers.
[QUOTE=Cone;38699662]A private school doesn't have to educate, it just has to make money. That can be done through exploiting tax loopholes, having better marketing while not necessarily providing better education, or just having a larger but perhaps not smarter base of people to pay them.
Remember, the end result of a business is always to make money. Providing a better product is just a means to that end, and it can be exchanged with anything else as it become convenient.[/QUOTE]
A good portion of the world's best colleges and universities are private.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38707078]A good portion of the world's best colleges and universities are private.[/QUOTE]
A good portion of the world's best colleges and universities are public too.
Privatize education. Almost as big of a joke as privatized healthcare.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38707078]A good portion of the world's best colleges and universities are private.[/QUOTE]
there are both private and public universities, so there is choice.
Privatizing K-12 public schools would remove public schooling altogether
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38707078]A good portion of the world's best colleges and universities are private.[/QUOTE]
that's a very broad and vague statement that doesnt mean anything if i ever saw one
Why are people [I]so[/I] fucking stupid and greedy? YOU! YES, YOU! OLD MAN WHO WANTS TO PRIVATIZE EDUCATION! Can you just keel over and fucking die so that we can advance as a species, you fucking fuck?
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38707078]A good portion of the world's best colleges and universities are private.[/QUOTE]
They're also very expensive. Public school is supposed to be the free option. They're talking about taking away the free option in favour of profit, at the cost of leaving many people with no education or putting a huge financial strain on them to keep theirs. And Republicans complain about taxes taking their money.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;38708258]They're also very expensive. Public school is supposed to be the free option. They're talking about taking away the free option in favour of profit, at the cost of leaving many people with no education or putting a huge financial strain on them to keep theirs. And Republicans complain about taxes taking their money.[/QUOTE]
It's cause they're smart as rocks and the people who like them are also as smart as rocks or are [I]extremely[/I] uninformed and shouldn't be in politics
[editline]4th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38707078]A good portion of the world's best colleges and universities are private.[/QUOTE]
And then when you graduate, you spend half your life trying to pay off the loans! Oh boy!
A far better idea would be to remove the "School District" system we have in place here in the US. This system forces students to attend failing schools. It would be better to attach money to the student, and not the district. No this isn't a complete privatization of the public education system, but it's a step to introducing choice and competition. Failing schools will loose students, and thus their tax revenue, to schools which do a better job educating.
Of course there are road blocks. Teachers Unions which force schools to continue to employ teachers who fail to properly educate students and laws which forbid teachers and administrators from disciplining students when they act out of line, as a few examples off the top of my head.
There is no one, quick fix. A plethora of issues need to be addressed to fix the US education system as a whole. As for Detroit, that city is gone if you ask me. Cure for that city will kill it in my opinion.
Ah yes..Detroit totally needs that..
[quote]A far better idea would be to remove the "School District" system we have in place here in the US. This system forces students to attend failing schools. It would be better to attach money to the student, and not the district. No this isn't a complete privatization of the public education system, but it's a step to introducing choice and competition. Failing schools will loose students, and thus their tax revenue, to schools which do a better job educating.[/quote]
The problem is that any system of "measurement" of whether a school is "succeeding" will make it a complete fucking disaster where the schools only focus on fitting those measurements (see NCLB)
Underpaying teachers and teacher unions are BOTH a contributing factor to schools being shit. We need to invest more money into education AND we need to get better teachers, and the only way to get better teachers in public school is to pay them more. But politics in the US are stupid fucking garbage so that will never happen. Everyone uses the logical fallacy of "you just want to throw more money at the schools! That won't solve anything! Clearly the solution is to defund the schools and then when they get worse, privatize them!"
We need more schools, we need bigger schools, we need more teachers and we need better teachers. The only way to get ANY of that is to stop fucking cutting funding. Raise taxes on the rich, like fucking 80% of America thinks we should do anyways, cut wasteful military spending, and put the money back into education.
uuum maybe if america stopped spending so much of their money on the military they would have money to improve the school system and society in general.
Please stop focusing on the wrong things.
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