China makes first carrier landing on refurbished soviet carrier with reverse engineered jet.
61 replies, posted
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38589281]So now they have one. Well, since America has ten and Taiwan has a specially designed anti-carrier missile, it isn't too worrying
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for now.[/QUOTE]
You don't just go from 0 to supercarriers straight away.
They're most likely just using this carrier on the cheep as a learning and conceptualising process, and I'm not just talking about designing and building on the cheep. But the whole crew and admiralty training, logistics naval tactics and strategies, learning how to combine sea and air power and a whole plethora of things they can start learning and improving now as their naval ambitions increase.
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38589281]So now they have one. Well, since America has ten and Taiwan has a specially designed anti-carrier missile, it isn't too worrying
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for now.[/QUOTE]
You say that like there's any reason for anyone to go to war with China.
also lol Chinese have the anti-carrier missile not Taiwan.
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38589281]So now they have one. Well, since America has ten and Taiwan has a specially designed anti-carrier missile, it isn't too worrying
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-
for now.[/QUOTE]
The anti-carrier missile is Chinese.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38587199]Keep making jokes all you like, but China's actually going to be terrifying over the next few decades.[/QUOTE]
My 20-year prediction: China keeps up an insane growth and has an economic bubble with crazy inflation due to their unsustainable model. They struggle to get out and fall to a mediocre standard of living with slow growth.
Meanwhile India has great growth and overtake s them, as India's economy's next on the list for sudden massive growth, with a more sustainable model. India also overtakes China in population within the next 10 years.
[QUOTE=mac338;38590802]My 20-year prediction: China keeps up an insane growth and has an economic bubble with crazy inflation due to their unsustainable model. They struggle to get out and fall to a mediocre standard of living with slow growth.
Meanwhile India has great growth and overtake s them, as India's economy's next on the list for sudden massive growth, with a more sustainable model. India also overtakes China in population within the next 10 years.[/QUOTE]
I think they'll hit recession in sooner than 20 years
[editline]25th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=smeismastger;38588567]Being invaded and occupied by Japan, collapsing into massive civil war, and then suffering political uprisings for a while before being able to start rebuilding your country tends to slow things down.
By the time China started building it's navy, prop planes were obsolete long ago. No sense building obsolete designs when you can just skip all that and buy one slightly dated and jumpstart your carrier technology and know-how.[/QUOTE]
political uprisings? hahahahah
and the civil war and Japanese occupation happened at the same time.
To be fair if China had better leadership (not fucking Mao) they might have gotten a carrier much earlier.
Well The Economist seems to think that China's growth is likely to remain mostly stable, minus a few rather small problems here and there.
And we all know The Economist is like the QI of the economic world.
[QUOTE=adam1172;38587326][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPH9iKpM-fk[/media][/QUOTE]
'What are they, protesters?'
I will laugh if that's for when you right-click on an infantry unit to run them over.
China is way behind, they're only getting this heavy aircraft cruiser now and Russia is already doing R&D work for 3-6 carrier groups similar to Ulyanovsk. Maybe their man power alone will make up for the gap.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38590956]Well The Economist seems to think that China's growth is likely to remain mostly stable, minus a few rather small problems here and there.
And we all know The Economist is like the QI of the economic world.[/QUOTE]
I have a subscription to The Economist and their predictions for China are all over the map.
[QUOTE=laserguided;38590994]China is way behind, they're only getting this heavy aircraft cruiser now and Russia is already doing R&D work for 3-6 carrier groups similar to Ulyanovsk. Maybe their man power alone will make up for the gap.[/QUOTE]
they're building 5 more domestically.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;38590997]I have a subscription to The Economist and their predictions for China are all over the map.[/QUOTE]
Yet yours seem to be very specific.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38591010]Yet yours seem to be very specific.[/QUOTE]
yeah, because it's my opinion and not theirs?
My point is that saying that "The Economist said blablabla about China" is sort of a moot point because they've said a wide variety of things about China.
Thread Music
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o[/media]
[QUOTE=mac338;38590802]My 20-year prediction: China keeps up an insane growth and has an economic bubble with crazy inflation due to their unsustainable model. They struggle to get out and fall to a mediocre standard of living with slow growth.
Meanwhile India has great growth and overtake s them, as India's economy's next on the list for sudden massive growth, with a more sustainable model. India also overtakes China in population within the next 10 years.[/QUOTE]
Oh please.
People have been waiting for that magical bubble to burst for the last 20-30 years now and nothing has still happened.
China is playing a dangerous game of currency manipulation and strict control over all of their exports. They intentionally fuck with the world market at a national level at every turn. Their favorite game recently being to strictly manipulate the price of rare earth materials.
Their ghost cities, constant expansion, and currency manipulation will eventually catch up to them.
This is kind of funny, like honestly if China even tried to go against the United States navy they would be ripped to shreds in hours.
[QUOTE=smeismastger;38589758]You say that like there's any reason for anyone to go to war with China.
also lol Chinese have the anti-carrier missile not Taiwan.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Swebonny;38590080]The anti-carrier missile is Chinese.[/QUOTE]
No, he's talking about the Taiwanese one. There was an article on it in SH a while back, emphasizing the artist's depiction of the Chinese carrier burning in the background.
[IMG]http://wareye.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/hsiung-feng-3-anti-ship-missile-620x392.jpg[/IMG]
Seaman ship, for love!
[editline]25th November 2012[/editline]
no wait that's japan
[QUOTE=Apache249;38591787]No, he's talking about the Taiwanese one. There was an article on it in SH a while back, emphasizing the artist's depiction of the Chinese carrier burning in the background.
[IMG]http://wareye.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/hsiung-feng-3-anti-ship-missile-620x392.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
That's some non-discrete artwork.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38587199]Keep making jokes all you like, but China's actually going to be terrifying over the next few decades.[/QUOTE]
That's if they keep at their current rate, which they're not. Most manufacturing for western nations is slowly being relocated to South America, mainly for easier shipping, and the fact that a strong China isn't that great of an idea for the Pacific region.
Just for a reference, their GDP compared to America is like 30 percent.
They have a long way to go before theyre a superpower.
[editline]25th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=laserguided;38590994]China is way behind, they're only getting this heavy aircraft cruiser now and Russia is already doing R&D work for 3-6 carrier groups similar to Ulyanovsk. Maybe their man power alone will make up for the gap.[/QUOTE]
And it's a 30 year old design that the Ukrainians neutered before they sold it.
[QUOTE=GunFox;38591280]Their ghost cities, constant expansion, and currency manipulation will eventually catch up to them.[/QUOTE]
Those ghost cities are built for the incoming rural people moving to the cities. They build them in advance to prevent overcrowding.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;38592031]That's if they keep at their current rate, which they're not. Most manufacturing for western nations is slowly being relocated to South America, mainly for easier shipping, and the fact that a strong China isn't that great of an idea for the Pacific region.
Just for a reference, their GDP compared to America is like 30 percent.
They have a long way to go before theyre a superpower.[/QUOTE]
China isn't like a western power, aggressive and expansionist. Nor do they ever really intend to be, as long as the Chinese ~patriot~ idiots remain a minority, and lack influence in party politics.
They're very inwards looking for a country with that potential influence.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;38592031]That's if they keep at their current rate, which they're not. Most manufacturing for western nations is slowly being relocated to South America, mainly for easier shipping, and the fact that a strong China isn't that great of an idea for the Pacific region.
Just for a reference, their GDP compared to America is like 30 percent.
They have a long way to go before theyre a superpower.[/QUOTE]
They have a while yet, but they have a great deal of land, natural resources, and people. China's always been a pretty powerful place once it got its shit together.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38592068]China isn't like a western power, aggressive and expansionist. Nor do they ever really intend to be, as long as the Chinese ~patriot~ idiots remain a minority, and lack influence in party politics.
They're very inwards looking for a country with that potential influence.[/QUOTE]
The Chinese were pretty aggressive during the late stages of WW2 and had plans for regions such as Siam, but them losing Vietnam kind of screwed that over.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;38592113]The Chinese were pretty aggressive during the late stages of WW2 and had plans for regions such as Siam, but them losing Vietnam kind of screwed that over.[/QUOTE]
Well China used to regard Vietnam much like here in the UK used to regard Ireland, belonging in their sphere of influence.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38592135]Well China used to regard Vietnam much like here in the UK used to regard Ireland, belonging in their sphere of influence.[/QUOTE]
And that's what I'm saying. They regard the indochina region as theirs and it really could have been, had there not been a mandate to give the region back to France.
[editline]25th November 2012[/editline]
Basically. They can try all they want to be a major player, the west will always fuck them over if they get too powerful. They loathe that and might do something in the future, but they'll lose.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;38592153]Basically. They can try all they want to be a major player, the west will always fuck them over if they get too powerful. They loathe that and might do something in the future, but they'll lose.[/QUOTE]
It's very simplistic to regards being a ~major player~ in a purely military manner, and it's a very western thing to do. But they are a major player. And they will be for a long time.
And no, the west will not declare war on them if they become too powerful. Just like the world didn't declare war on the USA. Nor do they even consider it enough to 'loathe' the idea. If anything they're just rather embarrassed about the last century and want to see their nation return to being a world leader again.
China isn't this militaristic boogeyman people like Republicans want to fantasies about. Nor are they heading to some terminal recession cliff, unlike America. They're just another country in the constantly shifting ebbs and flows of powers throughout history.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;38590997]I have a subscription to The Economist and their predictions for China are all over the map.
they're building 5 more domestically.[/QUOTE]
Some part of me doubts that these carriers will be nuclear nor any bigger then the single Chinese-flagged Varyag they currently have. Because they would actually have to put in time, money and effort to accomplish that.
[editline]25th November 2012[/editline]
You can't go zero to hero just after refurbishing some old soviet carrier. Russia has had over 50 years of carrier service and the US even more.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38592056]Those ghost cities are built for the incoming rural people moving to the cities. They build them in advance to prevent overcrowding.[/QUOTE]
Is that why the old ones have all but crumbled? They're not building them for the good of the rural people. Half the people in rural areas want no part of it right up until their home is bulldozed and they're forced to move. You seriously think these ghost towns were built for people? There is no demand.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38592068]China isn't like a western power, aggressive and expansionist. Nor do they ever really intend to be, as long as the Chinese ~patriot~ idiots remain a minority, and lack influence in party politics.
They're very inwards looking for a country with that potential influence.[/QUOTE]
When did China stopped to be aggressive and expansionist?
I'm always kind of in awe at the fact that, yes taking into account this is a training ship and all of that, that the newest US super-carriers will have electromagnetic catapults, anti-missile lasers, nuclear desalination plants and rail-gun batteries on them, as well as (potentially, it's still R&D DARPA level stuff) AA drones. Crazy stuff.
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