3/15 Primaries - "I can't believe it's not Bernie! ®" Edition, Paid for by Hillary for America
1,278 replies, posted
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49942402][QUOTE=EcksDee;49942374]Yeah, I get I'm being condescending to the max here, but it's literally something virtually the entire rest of the world can see except for you.
I've never seen anyone who supports him actually defend Trump's policies in any depth.
I have an HSA plan, I just don't want to be locked into forcing health care nor healthcare monopoly dictated by what state/area I live in. I travel a lot for my job and an affordable, tax free measure is a personal HSA that covers me cross the country and accepted everywhere.
Because the DoE is a steaming pile of shit that is near broken and just doesn't work. States levels can be much more agile given the size and population.
Not proven, and I think waterboarding and other methods should be reviewed.
Closing loopholes, cutting the fat from the IRS, ending meaningless IRS cases where no gains are made, etc.
Doubtful, people radically change from 18-22 or from 20-24. Ron Paul got a lot of attention and rallied many young people, but I would be surprised if you could find anyone who would remember his policies he wanted to enact.[/QUOTE]
And with single payer you would have all that as well as around 10 000 dollars more spending money each year.
How is it broken? What's broken is the NCLBA cause cba writing it out, instituted under Bush.
And in any case you don't fix it by cutting its funding. He's not even mentioned how he would actually fix it. Your Common Core is fairly competent so it's exactly the fact the the DoE is underfunded that your system is going to shit.
The 6000 page report compiled by the US government with documents collected from the CIA disagrees with "not proven". Again it's appealing to the emotional part of voters' brains. Torture has never worked, under any circumstances. Jack Bauer isn't fucking real.
Has he talked about specific loopholes? I know his main point in this case is his 15% repatriation (which, honestly, is trying to treat a symptom not a cause). He's said he wants to reduce corporate inversion but hasn't said anything about how.
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49942417]Every Bernie Sanders supporter I have ever met was caught up in the emotional taglines of "Feel the Bern". Everyone of them at my college was chanting "free school, free school" and when someone asked them "how" they started hurling insults and slurs at them in a red faced rage, no rational explanation for a simple question, just vitriol. But it's the less educated republican hicks who are all passion driven irrational people, right?
Don't think for a second that democrats can't be persuaded by emotion and soundbite just like every other person.[/QUOTE]
Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree, which is why I said "sometimes". The fact that the political system itself is such a huge factor in determining polls is insanely sad for one of the most developed nations on the planet.
it's hilarious and a bit worrying that there are actually people in this thread who support Trump. stockholm syndrome sure is a wacky thing.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49942429][QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49942402]
And with single payer you would have all that as well as around 10 000 dollars more spending money each year.[/quote]
What? I don't even put that much in anymore to my HSA, I built a fund up of ~1200(which if untouched can be taken out tax free in my 60's)
[quote]How is it broken? What's broken is the NCLBA cause cba writing it out, instituted under Bush.
And in any case you don't fix it by cutting its funding. He's not even mentioned how he would actually fix it. Your Common Core is fairly competent so it's exactly the fact the the DoE is underfunded that your system is going to shit.[/quote]
I was in HS not too many years ago and my mom is still a teacher, holy shit please you do not understand how broken the education system of america is NCLBA is bad but common core is the foundation for it.
[quote]The 6000 page report compiled by the US government with documents collected from the CIA disagrees with "not proven". Again it's appealing to the emotional part of voters' brains. Torture has never worked, under any circumstances. Jack Bauer isn't fucking real.[/quote]
Not proven and unreliable are different things, again didn't say it needs to be brought back but it needs review. Why are you bringing in straw man TV heroes to prove a point?
[quote]Has he talked about specific loopholes? I know his main point in this case is his 15% repatriation (which, honestly, is trying to treat a symptom not a cause). He's said he wants to reduce corporate inversion but hasn't said anything about how.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform[/url]
His taxplan is a lot different than what you have stated
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49942374]Yeah, I get I'm being condescending to the max here, but it's literally something virtually the entire rest of the world can see except for you.
I've never seen anyone who supports him actually defend Trump's policies in any depth.
How do you defend a HSA healthcare plan that would reduce coverage to tens of millions
How do you defend a plan for education that includes seriously cutting the DoE
How do you defend torture when over ten years of US torture has shown NO results with it
How do you defend a tax plan that reduces taxes for nearly everybody, while still thinking your budget and debt won't increase[/QUOTE]
you know that theres nobody in america thats even trying to defend it right? theyre just saying "oh he'll make america great again" and then ignoring anything else you say. youre talking to a wall thats denser than the one they think trump thinks he can build.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49942449][QUOTE=EcksDee;49942429]
What? I don't even put that much in anymore to my HSA, I built a fund up of ~1200(which if untouched can be taken out tax free in my 60's)
I was in HS not too many years ago and my mom is still a teacher, holy shit please you do not understand how broken the education system of america is NCLBA is bad but common core is the foundation for it.
Not proven and unreliable are different things, again didn't say it needs to be brought back but it needs review. Why are you bringing in straw man TV heroes to prove a point?
[url]https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform[/url]
His taxplan is a lot different than what you have stated[/QUOTE]
-Which will bankrupt you if you happen to break a bone somewhere.
-Yeah sorry I mistyped, I meant the NSES is competent. Common core is shit yeah, but again, improve the core and don't cut funding.
-I'm bringing in tv heroes because it's what seems to shape the majority of Americans' understanding of torture. "apply enough pain, information come out" is demonstrably and completely wrong and in the long run it does nothing but incourage ISIS to recruit even more people, leading to even more American deaths.
-I'll re-read his tax plan (though again I'd like more numbers) when I'm done with university today.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49942417]Every Bernie Sanders supporter I have ever met was caught up in the emotional taglines of "Feel the Bern". Everyone of them at my college was chanting "free school, free school" and when someone asked them "how" they started hurling insults and slurs at them in a red faced rage, no rational explanation for a simple question, just vitriol. But it's the less educated republican hicks who are all passion driven irrational people, right?
Don't think for a second that democrats can't be persuaded by emotion and soundbite just like every other person.[/QUOTE]
By imposing a tax on stock, bond, and foreign currency transactions.
A very small tax. Between 0.005% and 0.5%. This has effectively zero impact on the average person, but can generate significant cash flow from transactions on wall street.
It has the added benefit of making computer algorithms that trade stocks at ridiculous rates much less viable.
Sanders has pushed it for a while. It would generate more than enough to make tuition free for every student and subsidize existing loans.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49942408]More developed was probably the wrong phrase to use there, but you get my point still.[/QUOTE]
Trust me, if you know anything about American history, your assessment is not inaccurate. the South is, and has been the less developed and slower-to-adapt part of the country. It's the dirty, smelly asshole of an otherwise pretty progressive nation.
For somewhat depressing fun, imagine for one moment how much further ahead the United States could be by now if the deep south wasn't such a third world country.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49942358]
*checks states won by Hillary*
*checks states won by Bernie*
Shit...[/QUOTE]
This is kinda a dumb point to make.. Just because Bernie is losing doesn't mean that his ideas havent gained traction amongst the american people. Hillary shifting her campaign promises to be closer to Bernie's over the course of the campaign is a testament to that.
[QUOTE=HappyCompy;49942486]Trust me, if you know anything about American history, your assessment is not inaccurate. the South is, and has been the less developed and slower-to-adapt part of the country. It's the dirty, smelly asshole of an otherwise pretty progressive nation.
For somewhat depressing fun, imagine for one moment how much further ahead the United States could be by now if the deep south wasn't such a third world country.[/QUOTE]
Losing a civil war is a hell of a drug.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49942417]Every Bernie Sanders supporter I have ever met was caught up in the emotional taglines of "Feel the Bern". Everyone of them at my college was chanting "free school, free school" and when someone asked them "how" they started hurling insults and slurs at them in a red faced rage, no rational explanation for a simple question, just vitriol. But it's the less educated republican hicks who are all passion driven irrational people, right?
Don't think for a second that democrats can't be persuaded by emotion and soundbite just like every other person.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your insignificant personal anecdote that probably didnt even happen lol
[QUOTE=wystan;49942363]For someone who isn't an American you sure do have an interest in our politics and find it somehow acceptable to insult and belittle those who disagree with you. Can you imagine how annoying it would be if Americans kept giving their opinion on Estonian politics as if it mattered to us?[/QUOTE]
Can you imagine how annoying it would be if people used their right of freedom of speech to voice opinions on the leader of one of the strongest and most influential countries on the planet
god what dickbags
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49942500]Losing a civil war is a hell of a drug.[/QUOTE]
Apparently, if they haven't recovered when they've had 150+ years to do so.
Although there was that one time with Huey Long that was pretty awesome.
[QUOTE=wystan;49942375]I agree with you when it comes to relevant nations.[/QUOTE]
So only "relevant nations" are allowed to have an opinion about America? We've fucked a lot more with "irrelevant nations" than "relevant nations", and just belonging to a lesser nation doesn't mean that your opinion is lesser, especially not on the internet.
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49942417]Every Bernie Sanders supporter I have ever met was caught up in the emotional taglines of "Feel the Bern". Everyone of them at my college was chanting "free school, free school" and [B]when someone asked them "how" they started hurling insults and slurs at them in a red faced rage, no rational explanation for a simple question, just vitriol[/B]. But it's the less educated republican hicks who are all passion driven irrational people, right?[/QUOTE]
This happened.
[QUOTE=wystan;49942375]I agree with you when it comes to relevant nations.[/QUOTE]
Leave it to a Trump supporter to arbitrarily distinguish which nations are "relevant enough" to be criticizing one of the largest and influential nations in the world's world leader candidate choices.
[QUOTE=phygon;49942515]
This happened.[/QUOTE]
I apologize for not carrying around a recording device with me.
I live in Los Angeles, as many crazy Trump fans that are out there in fly over country who have no idea what the hell anything is about,
I can assure you that here in so cal we got just as many on the other side of the aisle doing things just as ridiculous and assholeish, mostly young college age folks with filthy mouths.
Jerks aren't native to any one nation, party, city, or family, they're all over.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49942523]Leave it to a Trump supporter to arbitrarily distinguish which nations are "relevant enough" to be criticizing one of the largest and influential nations in the world's world leader candidate choices.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=phygon;49942515]So only "relevant nations" are allowed to have an opinion about America? We've fucked a lot more with "irrelevant nations" than "relevant nations", and just belonging to a lesser nation doesn't mean that your opinion is lesser, especially not on the internet.
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
This happened.[/QUOTE]
I think a Canadian's opinion on what happens in America is certainly more important than someone from Andorra or Togo. That's what I mean by relevant.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49942417]Every Bernie Sanders supporter I have ever met was caught up in the emotional taglines of "Feel the Bern". Everyone of them at my college was chanting "free school, free school" and when someone asked them "how" they started hurling insults and slurs at them in a red faced rage, no rational explanation for a simple question, just vitriol. But it's the less educated republican hicks who are all passion driven irrational people, right?
Don't think for a second that democrats can't be persuaded by emotion and soundbite just like every other person.[/QUOTE]
Because we only ever have money for war, right? Never education, never healthcare, never infrastructure, never for social services... yet we can afford the largest and most robust military in the world. I don't think that makes sense, do you?
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49942487]This is kinda a dumb point to make.. Just because Bernie is losing doesn't mean that his ideas havent gained traction amongst the american people. Hillary shifting her campaign promises to be closer to Bernie's over the course of the campaign is a testament to that.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe for a second that Hillary actually believes what she says, she's just saying what she needs to to get elected. Once the primaries are over, and if she wins then she'll go back to pushing her typical centrist agenda at the behest of her donors. Just because she can parrot Bernie doesn't mean that those words mean the air used to speak them.
[QUOTE=Reshy;49942578]Because we only ever have money for war, right? Never education, never healthcare, never infrastructure, never for social services... yet we can afford the largest and most robust military in the world. I don't think that makes sense, do you?[/QUOTE]
I'm not asserting the point it couldn't or shouldn't be done, I was explaining that anyone can be caught up in a movement they don't fully understand because they like the implications or the identity/image it gives them.
I was illustrating that a Bernie Sanders fan could be just as clueless and swayed by emotion as the typically publicized image of the "crazy zealous right winger" who the poster I replied to said was a result of lack of education. I was also implying that education doesn't always make someone wise or even a better or more rational human being.
[QUOTE=wystan;49942575]I think a Canadian's opinion on what happens in America is certainly more important than someone from Andorra or Togo.[/QUOTE]
hi i'm canadian and that's absolute horseshit. America affects the entire world, whether you like it or not.
some countries, like canada, are more affected by America's actions than a european country but that does not mean that all opinions should be disregarded
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49942449]
[url]https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform[/url]
His taxplan is a lot different than what you have stated[/QUOTE]
[quote]If you are single and earn less than $25,000, or married and jointly earn less than $50,000, you will not owe any income tax. That removes nearly 75 million households – over 50% – from the income tax rolls. They get a new one page form to send the IRS saying, “I win,” those who would otherwise owe income taxes will save an average of nearly $1,000 each.[/quote]
So...everyone saves money on taxes. Tax income down significantly.
[quote]All other Americans will get a simpler tax code with four brackets – 0%, 10%, 20% and 25% – instead of the current seven. This new tax code eliminates the marriage penalty and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) while providing the lowest tax rate since before World War II.[/quote]
[url]http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-brackets.aspx[/url]
The current brackets. Uhh...so tax revenue goes down even further. Apparently to pre-WWII rates, when our federal government was nothing and hardly even maintained a standing military, much less the massive variety of other tasks it engages in today.
[quote]No business of any size, from a Fortune 500 to a mom and pop shop to a freelancer living job to job, will pay more than 15% of their business income in taxes. This lower rate makes corporate inversions unnecessary by making America’s tax rate one of the best in the world.[/quote]
Which another nation will promptly beat. This is a race to the bottom, and we don't want to win. How about you just enforce current tax laws and prevent them from pulling this shit in the first place. If they want to pull out, they can do so at their leisure. Someone will gladly take their place.
[quote]No family will have to pay the death tax. You earned and saved that money for your family, not the government. You paid taxes on it when you earned it.[/quote]
0.2% of estates are subjected to this. They qualify because their value exceeds five million dollars. Cry me a fucking river.
I see a whole lot of tax reduction. Like a staggering amount. This is not a maintainable level of revenue.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49942602]hi i'm canadian and that's absolute horseshit. America affects the entire world, whether you like it or not.
some countries, like canada, are more affected by America's actions than a european country but that does not mean that all opinions should be disregarded[/QUOTE]
I didn't say disregarded, but a Canadian or Mexican poster's opinion weighs more to me than most other countries. The larger European powers come next (UK, France, Germany). You guys act like the USA is the center of the world. Which I'm totally cool with.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49942601]I'm not asserting the point it couldn't or shouldn't be done, I was explaining that anyone can be caught up in a movement they don't fully understand because they like the implications or the identity/image it gives them.
I was illustrating that a Bernie Sanders fan could be just as clueless and swayed by emotion as the typically publicized image of the "crazy zealous right winger" who the poster I replied to said was a result of lack of education. I was also implying that education doesn't always make someone wise or even a better or more rational human being.[/QUOTE]
Anyone can be clueless about anything. Anyone can come to conclusions for the wrong reasons, even if the result is right or wrong.
Plus, in a crowd it's very hard to actually explain things because everyone shouts over everyone else. It's the whole mob mentality thing. "A Person is smart, People are dumb panicky dangerous animals."
[QUOTE=wystan;49942618]I didn't say disregarded, but a Canadian or Mexican poster's opinion weighs more to me than most other countries. The larger European powers come next (UK, France, Germany). You guys act like the USA is the center of the world. Which I'm totally cool with.[/QUOTE]
Might have something to do with us having the largest military or the largest economy.
[QUOTE=Reshy;49942625]Anyone can be clueless about anything. Anyone can come to conclusions for the wrong reasons, even if the result is right or wrong.
Plus, in a crowd it's very hard to actually explain things because everyone shouts over everyone else. It's the whole mob mentality thing. "A Person is smart, People are dumb panicky dangerous animals."[/QUOTE]
That's exactly my point, anyone can be a complete idiot, regardless of political affinity.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49942630]That's exactly my point, anyone can be a complete idiot, regardless of political affinity.[/QUOTE]
Okay, the thing is that the way you presented it was that "everyone" was that way.
[QUOTE][B]Every[/B] Bernie Sanders supporter I have ever met was caught up in the emotional taglines of "Feel the Bern". [B]Everyone[/B] of them at my college was chanting "free school, free school" and when someone asked them "how" they started hurling insults and slurs at them in a red faced rage, no rational explanation for a simple question, just vitriol. But it's the less educated republican hicks who are all passion driven irrational people, right?[/QUOTE]
Which is just as broad of a generalization.
[QUOTE=Reshy;49942625]
Might have something to do with us having the largest military or the largest economy.[/QUOTE]
Fuck yea we do.
[QUOTE=wystan;49942644]Fuck yea we do.[/QUOTE]
Personally speaking, I don't understand how if we can have the largest economy and the largest military that we cannot have the most robust education, health, and social services.
[QUOTE=HappyCompy;49942486]For somewhat depressing fun, imagine for one moment how much further ahead the United States could be by now if the deep south wasn't such a third world country.[/QUOTE]
Not only should we let Texas Cede, we should force them to take the south east with them.
[QUOTE=Reshy;49942643]Okay, the thing is that the way you presented it was that "everyone" was that way.
Which is just as broad of a generalization.[/QUOTE]
I hate to say this, but every Sanders fan I've met face to face in LA [I]HAS[/I] been a total jerk when approached with any level of questioning (of course most people in LA are not that pleasant). There are plenty people on here on Facepunch who have been more than helpful in educating me in areas of Sanders policies I lacked knowledge. The ones at my school and in my locality have been very much enthralled with the rhetoric and ideals without so much as grasping the actual facts that I've been privileged to find here to look over.
So let me rephrase my entire statement: "Everyone on earth is an asshole. Everyone at my school is an extraordinary asshole."
[QUOTE=soulharvester;49942665]Not only should we let Texas Cede, we should force them to take the south east with them.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1887264/original.jpg[/IMG]
I'm game.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/WAAfehZ.png[/img]
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