3/15 Primaries - "I can't believe it's not Bernie! ®" Edition, Paid for by Hillary for America
1,278 replies, posted
Wystan is a great example of Poe's law in action.
If Trump wins, we can probably kiss net neutrality good bye. The major ISPs will finally have their way and the Internet will become like cable TV.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49946009]lol it's illegal to secede from the union. people were talking shit about the south and that they can't do it.
You try that shit and the federal government will smack the shit out of you.[/QUOTE]
I can see his point though, California itself has the largest economy out of the Union, and when ranked with other countries comes in at #8 on the list, being beat out for 7th and 6th place by Brazil and France. Though, when you do factor in the other 49 states excluding California, the US ranks #1.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California[/url]
[url]http://www.lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/90[/url]
We're powerful, but we would be utterly ruined, both physically and financially, by the rest of the US if we seceded. Only way our secession could be possible is if New York and Texas, being the second and third biggest US economies, somehow and inexplicably secede as well.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49945234]Assuming the GOP doesn't go full retard, they are slated to win both the house and senate for Trump taking office. That linked with how well trump is at working lobbyist, he can get a lot of his plans pushed through rather quick.
It's going to be a great 8 years![/QUOTE]
Yeah, setting back our global reputation, gutting education, giving more tax cuts to increase debt, censoring and destroying net neutrality, and removing millions from Healthcare is going to be a really great 8 years.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;49944558]I really have a hard time understanding why SO many people support Hillary. Is it just "she's a woman!" thing? Or is it a "she's a Clinton!" thing? The only comments I ever see about her are that she's a liar. I can't think of one person i know who honestly really truly supports Hillary. It's strange.[/QUOTE]
Because old people vote based on what the TV tells them to vote. As the bloc that votes the most and watches TV the most that's where she's getting most of her support.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49944582]Right now, it's because Sanders isn't going to win, and Trump is too much of a unpredictable risk to go with.
At worst Hiliary is a safe, stable, mediocre 4 years. Trump would just bring us back to Bush days where we were the laughing stock of the world for actually voting for him.[/QUOTE]
Hillary Clinton is [B]not[/B] safe by any means, she's wholly bought out by the wealthiest individuals in America. She's throwing her previous positions under the bus to try and win against sanders, and the second she does win all of that talk goes away and then she goes back to being a business-as-usual(tm) democrat. I don't want a women who's so much of a corporate puppet in charge, because in the case any changes she does make will likely haunt us for [B]decades[/B] rather than just until the Senate or Supreme Court overturns the law after a year.
forget california seceding, Cascadia forever!
I am so excited for Trump to gut the american economy, culture, social landscape.
If not just to watch the reactions of people like John and Lump here.
Have you guys even considered the possibility things won't go as well as you imagine?
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49945234]Assuming the GOP doesn't go full retard, they are slated to win both the house and senate for Trump taking office. That linked with how well trump is at working lobbyist, he can get a lot of his plans pushed through rather quick.
It's going to be a great 8 years![/QUOTE]
And what if while ramrodding his legislation through, it isn't what you were promised? What then? How will you feel? Will you admit you were wrong or will you maintain that this is what you wanted?
[QUOTE=Reshy;49946219][B]Because old people vote based on what the TV tells them to vote.[/B] As the bloc that votes the most and watches TV the most that's where she's getting most of her support.
[/QUOTE]
This is a stupid statement and a pretty bad generalization. It has more to do with people who are older generally are willing to take less risks than younger people, mostly due to them having more assets and personal responsibilities than younger people. Going for someone with a name and history in politics is more appealing than a no name from left field.
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946316]I am so excited for Trump to gut the american economy, culture, social landscape.
If not just to watch the reactions of people like John and Lump here.
Have you guys even considered the possibility things won't go as well as you imagine?
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
And what if while ramrodding his legislation through, it isn't what you were promised? What then? How will you feel? Will you admit you were wrong or will you maintain that this is what you wanted?[/QUOTE]
Hasn't happened yet. However, if he does, obviously I will feel a bit disappointing in it. However, I will still be happy that Trump has basically cleaned house and is forcing the GOP to restructure itself.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49946336]This is a stupid statement and a pretty bad generalization. It has more to do with people who are older generally are willing to take less risks than younger people, mostly due to them having more assets and personal responsibilities than younger people. Going for someone with a name and history in politics is more appealing than a no name from left field.
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
Hasn't happened yet. However, if he does, obviously I will feel a bit disappointing in it. However, I will still be happy that Trump has basically cleaned house and is forcing the GOP to restructure itself.[/QUOTE]
He's simply forcing them to be more openly corporatist, more open to lobbyists(you can't say that he's not doing this when he plans on using it as a presidential technique, that's fucking sick) he's really, honestly and truly, just making the US more open to rich people ruling the rest of the country.
He no doubt enjoys how much populist support people like you are giving him, but it's never going to pay off for you personally. It's just good for him, and him alone.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946368]He's simply forcing them to be more openly corporatist, more open to lobbyists(you can't say that he's not doing this when he plans on using it as a presidential technique, that's fucking sick) he's really, honestly and truly, just making the US more open to rich people ruling the rest of the country.
He no doubt enjoys how much populist support people like you are giving him, but it's never going to pay off for you personally. It's just good for him, and him alone.[/QUOTE]
Lobbyists aren't going away, however he knows how to use them; and don't act like a president or party has versed or used them before.
I think there is a bit in for him, but I think there is something much larger he is trying to accomplished based on his actions, statements, and history. I don't have any proof but if he is doing it then he's probably making the smartest decision and backhanded I've seen. If he can get it to work then it's going to be a win for everyone except foreign traders.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946316]I am so excited for Trump to gut the american economy, culture, social landscape.
If not just to watch the reactions of people like John and Lump here.
Have you guys even considered the possibility things won't go as well as you imagine?[/QUOTE]
Of course not. It's the Sanders supporters who are delusional, actually believing that a grassroots candidate can get elected and deliver a national healthcare and college tuition program while running a pragmatic foreign policy.
Meanwhile, it's totally reasonable to assume that a loudmouth millionaire with enemies in both parties is going to dismantle the DOE and EPA, and deliver an aggressive foreign policy based on banning a religion from entering the country, building a giant border wall and having another sovereign nation pay for it, and force "Shina" to play by our rules. All without an actual team of foreign policy advisors.
He was asked on [url=http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/03/trump-foreign-policy-advisers-speaking-with-myself]March 8th[/url] who he's been meeting with to figure these things out:
[quote]I'm speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I've said a lot of things.[/quote]
Just read that shit. Read it twice. Goddammit, is this really who we want in the oval office? Is this the best and brightest our nation can produce?
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49946429]Lobbyists aren't going away, however he knows how to use them; and don't act like a president or party has versed or used them before.
I think there is a bit in for him, but I think there is something much larger he is trying to accomplished based on his actions, statements, and history. I don't have any proof but if he is doing it then he's probably making the smartest decision and backhanded I've seen. If he can get it to work then it's going to be a win for everyone except foreign traders.[/QUOTE]
There's no readily available precedent of a leader of the country using a lobbyist to get his way. Source if you have it otherwise stop talking out your ass and justifying the corruption of your government, BY your government.
"We want big money out of govenrment, however, we are ready to elect a lobbyist to president so he can lobby his policies into effect"
That's essentially your reasoning here.
You do more business with Canada on a daily basis than anyone else in the world. It benefits both of us, And your response is "FUCK YOU WE NEED THIS TO BENEFIT US AND COST YOU".
That's so fucking childish.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946459]There's no readily available precedent of a leader of the country using a lobbyist to get his way. Source if you have it otherwise stop talking out your ass and justifying the corruption of your government, BY your government.
"We want big money out of govenrment, however, we are ready to elect a lobbyist to president so he can lobby his policies into effect"
That's essentially your reasoning here.
You do more business with Canada on a daily basis than anyone else in the world. It benefits both of us, And your response is "FUCK YOU WE NEED THIS TO BENEFIT US AND COST YOU".
That's so fucking childish.[/QUOTE]
If Trump wants to use methods to get things done faster via things that are already in place in order to make america great again, jump start the economy, and secure our boarders; I say go for it.
Maybe we should do less business with Canada(and other countries) and have things made in the USA so our people can have good full time jobs. It's not our prerogative to ensure foreign countries have jobs when we can't even give our citizens jobs for food and living.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49946512]If Trump wants to use methods to get things done faster via things that are already in place in order to make america great again, jump start the economy, and secure our boarders; I say go for it.
Maybe we should do less business with Canada(and other countries) and have things made in the USA so our people can have good full time jobs. It's not our prerogative to ensure foreign countries have jobs when we can't even give our citizens jobs for food and living.[/QUOTE]
So trade that BENEFITS YOU ALREADY BY ABOUT 7 BILLION A DAY isn't good enough and you need a solidly one sided deal that hint hint, doesn't fucking exist?! So how am I supposed to take you seriously when you say things so disconnected from reality?
So you're not actually against government corruption what so ever
You can't even pretend to be against it anymore. You just want a plutocracy. You want a monied leader in office to spend money, and prove that the only way for political expedience is to be rich
You want this cycle to be shown to be true, and you want it to repeat? Because that's what you're showing the rich of America. That all they need to do is promise to "GET SHIT DONE" and they'll be elected to get THEIR SHIT DONE.
It's true. People really do want fascist leaders.
Fuck man. I can't even. I can't even understand how desperate you must really be to think this is going to help you. I won't have pity for you in 5-10 years. I really won't.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49946512]If Trump wants to use methods to get things done faster via things that are already in place in order to make america great again, jump start the economy, and secure our boarders; I say go for it.
Maybe we should do less business with Canada(and other countries) and have things made in the USA so our people can have good full time jobs. It's not our prerogative to ensure foreign countries have jobs when we can't even give our citizens jobs for food and living.[/QUOTE]
What you're talking about here is called protectionism, and it's exactly what the Republicans have been fighting against since the Reagan Revolution. What do you think is going to happen if we cut down on foreign imports? They'll do it right back to us- Canada, China, and anyone else we suddenly decide aren't good business partners are going to stop buying our crap. Did you know Buick is the number one import car brand in China? It would sure be a shame if we lost that market. The same can be said for thousands of other products. We'd be cutting off our nose to spite our face.
This stuff takes like 4 seconds of critical thinking, come on.
[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;49946566]What you're talking about here is called protectionism, and it's exactly what the Republicans have been fighting against since the Reagan Revolution. What do you think is going to happen if we cut down on foreign imports? They'll do it right back to us- Canada, China, and anyone else we suddenly decide aren't good business partners are going to stop buying our crap. Did you know Buick is the number one import car brand in China? It would sure be a shame if we lost that market. The same can be said for thousands of other products. We'd be cutting off our nose to spite our face.
This stuff takes like 4 seconds of critical thinking, come on.[/QUOTE]
I'd be willing to bet those markets need us more than we need them, if push came to shove.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946316]I am so excited for Trump to gut the american economy, culture, social landscape.
If not just to watch the reactions of people like John and Lump here.
Have you guys even considered the possibility things won't go as well as you imagine?
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
And what if while ramrodding his legislation through, it isn't what you were promised? What then? How will you feel? Will you admit you were wrong or will you maintain that this is what you wanted?[/QUOTE]
As then 30 year old middle class muricans watchin the inexplicably still on tv CSI and Law and Order they wont have to admit anything.
unless they get sick. Of course then it will be someone else's fault.
Classic "it's not a problem for me, so it's not actually a problem", which is how this whole comedic venue started.
[QUOTE=27X;49946601]As then 30 year old middle class muricans watchin the inexplicably still on tv CSI and Law and Order they wont have to admit anything.
unless they get sick. Of course then it will be someone else's fault.
Classic "it's not a problem for me, so it's not actually a problem", which is how this whole comedic venue started.[/QUOTE]
If I get sick I take money out of my HSA which I dumped a large amount of money into
[QUOTE=wystan;49946598]I'd be willing to bet those markets need us more than we need them, if push came to shove.[/QUOTE]
I'm willing to bet you have no idea what any of those deals get you
In fact
I'm fucking certain of it.
[QUOTE=wystan;49946598]I'd be willing to bet those markets need us more than we need them, if push came to shove.[/QUOTE]
So your whole economic strategy boils down to "I'm going to sock these guys in the nose because I don't think they can punch as hard as I can." Who knows if you're right or wrong. The only thing that's absolutely certain is that we'll lose export markets for our high-quality American goods, which carry added value from our technological advantage. This will cost us lots of jobs for skilled workers. And then I suppose the strategy is to wait for new factories to spring up here in the US where we can start manufacturing the cheap crap we would have been importing, which mostly requires unskilled labor. Our skilled workers never get their good paying jobs back unless they decide to start looking abroad.
This is a recipe for a long-lasting recession with catastrophic consequences to the labor pool.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946630]I'm willing to bet you have no idea what any of those deals get you
In fact
I'm fucking certain of it.[/QUOTE]
Trump doesn't even talk about Canada, he's just been shit talking Mexico and "Shina/Chyna". I'm fairly certain if its seen that we benefit from Canadian trade (we do) than i'm fairly certain whatever parts of NAFTA that are allowing positive trade (for us) will stay, it'd be absolutely moronic to fuck up trade with a country that we aren't in a trade deficit in.
Why do you guys actually think America can generate everything it needs internally without other nations involved at all? Why do you think you can be economically independent when that's just not how the world works anymore?
How little do you guys actually know about the supply chain of industry that keeps you afloat?
[QUOTE=wystan;49946598]I'd be willing to bet those markets need us more than we need them, if push came to shove.[/QUOTE]
the truth is that china and the united states can't survive without one another
the only possible situation in which this won't be true in the future will have to involve some sort of global economic decline that remains persistent and leads to the decay of civilization
[QUOTE=wystan;49946598]I'd be willing to bet those markets need us more than we need them, if push came to shove.[/QUOTE]
Apparently basic market economics is as confusing and alien a concept to you as human rights. Losing our international trade partners would result in an economic collapse of epic magnitude.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946686]Why do you guys actually think America can generate everything it needs internally without other nations involved at all? Why do you think you can be economically independent when that's just not how the world works anymore?
How little do you guys actually know about the supply chain of industry that keeps you afloat?[/QUOTE]
Dude.
The millions of stacked shipping containers in South Carolina, Mississippi and Washington are obviously American, as they have writing on them in english and are OBVIOUSLY on american soil.
American.
[QUOTE=wystan;49946598]I'd be willing to bet those markets need us more than we need them, if push came to shove.[/QUOTE]
Nope, we need them as much as they need us. It's a symbiotic relationship of necessity. That's how globalization works, and that's what happens when you outsource as excessively as the United States has in recent decades and transform yourselves into a service-orientated workforce nation.
If push came to shove, we'd all be fucked. Us especially since we don't produce hardly anything ourselves anymore. I'm not in favor of absolute autarky, but we really cut our own throats here and have lost the majority of our ability to be a self-sufficient nation. Not just in terms of the auto industry, as Sega has correctly pointed out; we don't make lightbulbs, televisions, phones, actual silverware... hell-- Chuck Taylors and Gerber baby food aren't even American-manufactured now (Indonesia makes our Chucks, and Gerber is Swiss-owned now with all its foodstuffs made overseas). Some of these things may seem minor, but they all clearly demonstrate we've lost a great deal of our self-reliance when it comes to basic things that we all take for granted.
We don't even have the ability to meet our beef demands anymore; some years, we've got enough, but here recently (in a trend that's predicted to continue), we've been having to import it. We do fine overall in food production, but that's starting to be affected with the drought that's hit California (which is our major producer of vegetables, dairy products, and fruits). And with climate change, it's only going to get worse-- for everybody. We still import most of our vegetables as well. More than a quarter of all the seafood we eat is brought in from China, FFS.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946686]Why do you guys actually think America can generate everything it needs internally without other nations involved at all? Why do you think you can be economically independent when that's just not how the world works anymore?
How little do you guys actually know about the supply chain of industry that keeps you afloat?[/QUOTE]
No no dude. Clearly you've got it wrong. We need to try and be like Fascist Italy, Francoist Spain, and Nazi-Germany and strive to achieve full-autarky... because nothing ever went wrong for them...
I get that we're a big nation and we have access to a lot of resources, but the loss of our trading partners means economic collapse and a massive reduction in the quality of life we enjoy overall as Americans. Now while I'm personally willing to make that sacrifice (although my reasons have nothing to do with autarky; I just hate the current economic system we're living under and know it's ultimately unsustainable), I'm also willing to bet that the majority of Americans aren't. They're not ready, and they don't actually know what it means to do without all these commodities and consumable items they've learned to take for granted.
We're a spoiled nation in a lot of ways, and we need to do something to fix that and teach the upper classes in our society an especially brutal lesson, but cutting ties with our trading partners and trying to become self-reliant isolationists is... ridiculous, to say the least. This kind of attitude has not produced a feasible working concept for as long as advanced nation-states and empires have existed. There comes a point in a state's development process where it needs others, if not economically, then diplomatically.
[QUOTE=wystan;49946598]I'd be willing to bet those markets need us more than we need them, if push came to shove.[/QUOTE]
Fucking hilarious, yeah it really helps innovation when you're cutting yourself off from the rest of the world.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49946686]Why do you guys actually think America can generate everything it needs internally without other nations involved at all? Why do you think you can be economically independent when that's just not how the world works anymore?
How little do you guys actually know about the supply chain of industry that keeps you afloat?[/QUOTE]
They're also ignoring the concept of comparative advantages and positive-sum trade. If the US can produce power plant turbines more efficiently than China, and China can make computers more efficiently than the US, then it makes logical sense for each country to produce what it's good at making, trade it away, and then use the profit to import the products they can't make as cheaply. That way, both countries get turbines and computers for the lowest possible cost.
In addition, we have the law of diminishing returns working against us. Capital is being used to produce what we're good at making (eg, aluminum for airliners), because those things are the most profitable items that our capital can be made into. If we stop importing items made of aluminum from China, Mexico, Canada, etc, then the cost of domestic aluminum flies through the roof because we have to start making our own aluminum foil, toy cars, bike frames, and so on. Literally everything made of aluminum becomes more expensive, but especially the items that we'd normally be creating efficiently.
And then, once Boeing planes are inexplicably more expensive than they were last year, all of our "good" trade partners will lack incentive to buy them instead of competitors like Airbus.
It's all terribly shortsighted, like killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49946621]If I get sick I take money out of my HSA which I dumped a large amount of money into[/QUOTE]
You obviously have no clue how much continual diabetes or cancer treatments cost, nor how poorly both of those are covered by the top eight insurance companies, and if you don't have insurance, you will be in debt by the end of the year unless you're a multimillionaire.
[QUOTE=27X;49946761]You obviously have no clue how much continual diabetes or cancer treatments cost, nor how poorly both of those are covered by the top eight insurance companies, and if you don't have insurance, you will be in debt by the end of the year unless you're a multimillionaire.[/QUOTE]
Actually I do, my dad is diabetic and has to have dialysis as well due to his smoking shot his kidneys. I never said I didn't want full coverage, however I don't want to pay the premiums that are required since I am trying to get a house. Using an HSA for someone in their mid 20's is fine, and a good way to avoid having to pay that stupid *don't have healthcare* tax. Once I get a house agreement and start living in it, I will re look into getting a personal plan, or just get my work to pay for it(or find a job that will pay for it).
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