• 3/15 Primaries - "I can't believe it's not Bernie! ®" Edition, Paid for by Hillary for America
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[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;49956529]Except that never happened with Obama.[/QUOTE] Uh, yeah it did. 2008 Clinton started off with a huge lead in superdelegates, but as Obama won more and more of the popular vote ansd pledged delegates, he also got nearly all of the undecided superdelegates as well as lots of supers who flipped from Clinton to Obama.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49956543]Uh, yeah it did. 2008 Clinton started off with a huge lead in superdelegates, but as Obama won more and more of the popular vote ansd pledged delegates, he also got nearly all of the undecided superdelegates as well as lots of supers who flipped from Clinton to Obama.[/QUOTE] Obama was always very close behind Clinton in terms of delegates, only about 60 ended up switching to Obama, and that was only when he overtook Hillary in the pledged delegates. You don't seriously believe that more than 200 superdelegates are going to switch to Sanders, do you?
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;49956567]Obama was always very close behind Clinton in terms of delegates, only about 60 ended up switching to Obama, and that was only when he overtook Hillary in the pledged delegates. You don't seriously believe that more than 200 superdelegates are going to switch to Sanders, do you?[/QUOTE] That's the issue, we're asking for too much of a miracle to happen. And I don't put my money on a wishing star giving Sanders his magical 200 Super Delagates. As much as I love Sanders, I've been ready since before the primaries to vote for Hiliary as my back up choice.
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;49956567]Obama was always very close behind Clinton in terms of delegates, only about 60 ended up switching to Obama, and that was only when he overtook Hillary in the pledged delegates. You don't seriously believe that more than 200 superdelegates are going to switch to Sanders, do you?[/QUOTE] No, I don't, however the situation now is different. Obama and Clinton polled relatively equally against their republican counterparts, but right now, Sanders is beating Clinton on nearly every poll against Trump and Cruz. He's almost definitely going to make up the 300-something pledged delegate deficit looking at the last states, undecided Supers are probably going to side with him, and I'm thinking that Hillary's Supers will flip more than they did with Obama, since the DNC, despite being awful, knows that Clinton is weak against the republicans. Indeed, it's going to be [B]a lot[/B] harder for Sanders than it was in 2008, but looking at the numbers and the fact that he's made up like 30 point deficits in a few months, I wouldn't count him out just yet.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49956616]No, I don't, however the situation now is different. Obama and Clinton polled relatively equally against their republican counterparts, but right now, Sanders is beating Clinton on nearly every poll against Trump and Cruz. He's almost definitely going to make up the 300-something pledged delegate deficit looking at the last states, undecided Supers are probably going to side with him, and I'm thinking that Hillary's Supers will flip more than they did with Obama, since the DNC, despite being awful, knows that Clinton is weak against the republicans. Indeed, it's going to be [B]a lot[/B] harder for Sanders than it was in 2008, but looking at the numbers and the fact that he's made up like 30 point deficits in a few months, I wouldn't count him out just yet.[/QUOTE] Something drastic needs to happen. One of the many scandals need to stick to Clinton because, otherwise, I just don't see him getting the landslide margins he needs. That being said the political process should continue, ideally so that he can win, realistically so that at least the issues get put out there.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;49956625]Something drastic needs to happen. One of the many scandals need to stick to Clinton because, otherwise, I just don't see him getting the landslide margins he needs. That being said the political process should continue, ideally so that he can win, realistically so that at least the issues get put out there.[/QUOTE] Clinton has been doing fine in avoiding scandals during this campaign, and Sanders has still made up 30 point deficits in deep south states. I'm not saying Sanders WILL win. I'm saying there's currently no reason to count him out with all things considered.
Maybe if the email thing turns out to be a crime and she gets slammed with a criminal investigation she'll be forced to drop or denounced by the DNC because if she were to be convicted she wouldn't even be able to [I]be[/I] president I can dream
[QUOTE=phygon;49956651]Maybe if the email thing turns out to be a crime and she gets slammed with a criminal investigation she'll be forced to drop or denounced by the DNC because if she were to be convicted she wouldn't even be able to [I]be[/I] president I can dream[/QUOTE] Dreams are good to have, but Dreams alone don't win elections.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956798]Dreams are good to have, but Dreams alone don't win elections.[/QUOTE] Honestly, why are you posting like you have an individually formed idea of what's going on.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49956942]Honestly, why are you posting like you an individually formed idea of what's going on.[/QUOTE] Because I'm tired of reading all this shit about "Shiliary" and shit, when in reality she isn't really all that bad. It's best to be ready for when this ends and if Sanders DOESN'T win. I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance in hell, if news came in that he won the Nomination, then hey fucking awesome he got in. If he didn't, too bad, I voted, my canidate didn't win, and now I'll have to vote for the person I think will less likely fuck America up to the extreme. I would choose not to vote for Hiliary or abstain, but the problem is the opponent is Donald Trump, so now it's vote to avoid Trump, or have 4 years of Trump bringing American back down to humiliation.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49957001]Because I'm tired of reading all this shit about "Shiliary" and shit, when in reality she isn't really all that bad. It's best to be ready for when this ends and if Sanders DOESN'T win. I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance in hell, if news came in that he won the Nomination, then hey fucking awesome he got in. If he didn't, too bad, I voted, my canidate didn't win, and now I'll have to vote for the person I think will less likely fuck America up to the extreme. I would choose not to vote for Hiliary or abstain, but the problem is the opponent is Donald Trump, so now it's vote to avoid Trump, or have 4 years of Trump bringing American back down to humiliation.[/QUOTE] My post had nothing to do with Sanders winning or not, it's just painfully obvious you get all your information from the typical SH post, so basically this is all just regurgitation. You had no idea that the primaries were still going on, and a week ago it seemed you knew basically nothing about any candidate. Why are you trying to "prepare" people for when Sanders' campaign is irreversibly dead? Are you afraid people will die from disappointment? Why not go learn something about the political process, read up on the actual statistics behind Bernie's demise or basically anything other than sitting in this thread hoping to obtain opinions through osmosis.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49957001]Because I'm tired of reading all this shit about "Shiliary" and shit, when in reality she isn't really all that bad. It's best to be ready for when this ends and if Sanders DOESN'T win. I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance in hell, if news came in that he won the Nomination, then hey fucking awesome he got in. If he didn't, too bad, I voted, my canidate didn't win, and now I'll have to vote for the person I think will less likely fuck America up to the extreme. I would choose not to vote for Hiliary or abstain, but the problem is the opponent is Donald Trump, so now it's vote to avoid Trump, or have 4 years of Trump bringing American back down to humiliation.[/QUOTE] She [I]really is[/I] that bad, though. She lies all the time and then when she gets caught she just goes "uuuuuuuuuuuuuh" and can't respond. She's lied about so much she can't even keep her lies straight anymore. She did something INCREDIBLY stupid with communications that any modern person should understand. She flip flops like hell, will say anything for a vote, and it's really hard to peg down exactly what her political stances on certain issues are when she changes her opinion all the time. That, and she wants to ban encryption like a fucking retard when she doesn't even know how insecure email is. Also, why would you need to be "ready" for anything? I'm a voter, not the candidate.
Waiting for this to become a 3 way race with all the talk about a brokered convention. Clinton vs Trump vs Republican Mystery Meat.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49957206]Waiting for this to become a 3 way race with all the talk about a brokered convention. Clinton vs Trump vs Republican Mystery Meat.[/QUOTE] Probably Kasich.
[QUOTE=GravyKing;49957232]Probably Kasich.[/QUOTE] Best case scenario is Kasich but I'm not sure if the voters would like that.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49956632]Clinton has been doing fine in avoiding scandals during this campaign, and Sanders has still made up 30 point deficits in deep south states. I'm not saying Sanders WILL win. I'm saying there's currently no reason to count him out with all things considered.[/QUOTE] I know your trying to look at this objectively, but I don't really think your being entirely realistic. Sanders is going to need landslide after landslide to have any hope of catching up to Hillary. Winning by a sub 5-10 point split isn't going to really do anything. And if this last Tuesday was any indication, that isn't going to happen. Sanders shouldn't have loss as hard as he did.
I'd be a liar if I said I didn't still have some hope in Sanders, but I'm becoming increasingly pessimistic.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49957861]I don't care what happens, I will vote for Sanders in November as the nominee or as a write-in. I'm not going to vote for the lesser of 8 evils when I can vote for my ideal.[/QUOTE] Your going to be voting against Sanders by voting for him. He undoubtedly will endorse Clinton.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49958233]I don't care who he endorses, elections are about who I want.[/QUOTE] "I don't care what Sanders says, he's gonna be President whether he likes it or not". [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=BusterBluth;49958009]Your going to be voting against Sanders by voting for him. He undoubtedly will endorse Clinton.[/QUOTE] He's already stated he would.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49957001]Because I'm tired of reading all this shit about "Shiliary" and shit, when in reality she isn't really all that bad. It's best to be ready for when this ends and if Sanders DOESN'T win. I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance in hell, if news came in that he won the Nomination, then hey fucking awesome he got in. If he didn't, too bad, I voted, my canidate didn't win, and now I'll have to vote for the person I think will less likely fuck America up to the extreme. I would choose not to vote for Hiliary or abstain, but the problem is the opponent is Donald Trump, so now it's vote to avoid Trump, or have 4 years of Trump bringing American back down to humiliation.[/QUOTE]she directly supported a coup in Honduras that has led to weekly murders of environmental activists, while recieving money from fossil fuel & environment destroying lobbying groups she's awful & her and her husbands goal has been to pull the democratic party further to the right. the clinton foundation routinely recieves money from various human right abusing oppressive governments then she acts like she cares about the suffering of people in america, and worldwide while pocketing millions of dollars from the same people she condemns.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49958233]I don't care who he endorses, elections are about who I want.[/QUOTE] I can see it. Bernie loses the nomination to Hillary, but Bernie does the sensible thing and endorses Hillary. He also encourages all of his own supporters to vote for a better America by voting for Hillary in November, too. But the Bernie bros aren't having that. They are still going to write in Bernie, despite Bernie telling them not to. Then it comes to election day. The write-ins for Bernie are relatively few, but it's a close race between Hillary and the Republican candidate. It's neck and neck, until there are only the votes of one state left to finish being counted. It's not looking good! In this normally Democrat-aligned state (55% of the electorate are Democrats), 20% of those Democrat-aligned voters decided to write-in Bernie! The votes are: 44% for Hillary, 11% for Bernie, and 45% for the Republican. The Republican wins the state! And with that state, the Republican has enough electoral college votes to become the President! In the aftermath, Bernie commits suicide because his own supporters had cost the Democrats the Presidency and all of the work done by Obama. The Bernie bros have only just realised the consequence of their actions, but it's too late. The next Presidential election is in four years, and Bernie can't stand for the next election. The new President succeeds in repealing Obamacare and many millions of Americans are now uninsured. Gay marriage is outlawed. [b]All because Bernie supporters were salty that Bernie lost the Democrat nomination to Hillary[/b].
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49958233]I don't care who he endorses, elections are about who I want.[/QUOTE] Can I bring your attention to the Green Party and Jill Stein? Seeing her and Bernie working together after he potentially loses the nomination could bring about some great changes.
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;49956567]Obama was always very close behind Clinton in terms of delegates, only about 60 ended up switching to Obama, and that was only when he overtook Hillary in the pledged delegates. You don't seriously believe that more than 200 superdelegates are going to switch to Sanders, do you?[/QUOTE] if super delegates were to overturn a popular vote, that would be the final nail in the coffin for the DNC. In all honesty, both the republican and democratic parties have shown themselves to be corrupt at this point. We really need a third party
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49958332]Pretty much. I'm not going to support anyone else, that's going against my own morals, man. Like if someone asked if I want a punch or kick to the groin, I'm going to say fuck that and choose a different option. Yeah they'll probably kick me anyway, but at least I didn't ask for it.[/QUOTE] I understand that and I understand the dislike for Hillary, but the difference between the two candidates is staggering. I don't think Trump stands much of a chance of beating Hillary, but it's not a chance to.take.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49958397]I dislike them both, why would I vote for either? I refused to be fear mongered into voting for a candidate just so the other one will lose. [/QUOTE] Its not fear mongering, one is substantiality worse than the other. [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;49958434]No they're not, most of the upcoming states that actually matter are heavily in favor of Clinton, the latest polls out of New York for example show Hillary beating Bernie by [I][B]48 points,[/B][/I] if he loses by that much it's over no matter what, he can't afford to lose big like that anywhere not even small states like Utah or Arizona. [URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/ny/new_york_democratic_presidential_primary-4221.html"]New York:[/URL] Clinton 71-23 Bernie, he's down by 48 points! [URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_presidential_primary-4249.html"]Pennsylvania:[/URL] Clinton 57-27 Bernie, he's down 30 points! [URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/az/arizona_democratic_presidential_primary-5466.html"]Arizona:[/URL] Clinton 50-24 Bernie, he's down 26 points, [B]also this state is voting next week.[/B][/QUOTE] That line has been used since the first Super Tuesday. "We just have to get past the South, the next elections are much more favorable". Its something that is promoted by Sanders Campaign itself.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;49958435]That line has been used since the first Super Tuesday. "We just have to get past the South, the next elections are much more favorable". Its something that is promoted by Sanders Campaign itself.[/QUOTE] Like how every single week "Well, that was before the bump in Sanders support a couple weeks ago..."
[QUOTE=da space core;49958367]if super delegates were to overturn a popular vote, that would be the final nail in the coffin for the DNC. In all honesty, both the republican and democratic parties have shown themselves to be corrupt at this point. We really need a third party[/QUOTE] I was reading Gamechange again the other day in light of current arguments about the Democratic primary, and it reminded again that the whole superdelegate deal in 2008 was a lot more complicated than just a matter of Obama winning enough states to take some from Clinton. There was a great deal of disinterest and concern in the Democratic party about Clinton running in 2008, due to a number of reasons, and before anyone even thought of Obama, there was a considerable amount of interest in having an alternative to her. Though such things were kept to whispers in private between the various Democratic politicians, for none could come out and take a stance against Hillary this early without political repercussions. But, in particular, the Democratic primary of 2008 was a matter of picking up endorsements from high up, influential Democratic politicians--specifically, the late Ted Kennedy. Being publicly endorsed by a Kennedy was enough to signal to the Democrats making up the superdelegate population that it was okay to switch to endorsing Obama, and that was really when everything started lining up for Obama. Obama proceeded to win the next 11 states in a row early on in the primary, but even that wasn't enough to push Clinton from the race. Even if Sanders begins winning states more than Clinton, that's not going to be enough to bring out the superdelegates to side with him, particularly ones already pledged to Clinton. No one in politics wants to publicly betray the Clinton family again. The Clintons are a very vindictive family, and there is no way Hillary or Bill will forget it, let alone the fact it seems likely Chelsea Clinton will be politically relevant a decade or two down the road. But at least in 2008, they had an excuse coming from the fact that an equally important political dynasty had thrown their hat in with Obama, but there's no such similar endorsement made to Sanders. If you're one of the superdelegates pledged to Clinton now, are you really to betray the front runner that you've already pledged to stand by? The front runner from the prominent political family that is probably going to hold it as a grudge against you? All so you can support the candidate that is, to put it mildly, a long shot? Obama got in early against Clinton, winning Iowa; South Carolina; slightly edging Clinton out on Super Tuesday; and setting up his 11-straight victories just after Super Tuesday; had the endorsement from the Kennedy family, and still didn't get hardly all of Clinton's superdelegates. Bernie doesn't need a slight miracle, he needs the stars and the moon to perfectly align and Jesus to personally walk down and endorse him, and then it's still uncertain.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;49958434]No they're not, most of the upcoming states that actually matter are heavily in favor of Clinton, the latest polls out of New York for example show Hillary beating Bernie by [I][B]48 points,[/B][/I] if he loses by that much it's over no matter what, he can't afford to lose big like that anywhere not even small states like Utah or Arizona. [URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/ny/new_york_democratic_presidential_primary-4221.html"]New York:[/URL] Clinton 71-23 Bernie, he's down by 48 points! [URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_presidential_primary-4249.html"]Pennsylvania:[/URL] Clinton 57-27 Bernie, he's down 30 points! [URL="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/az/arizona_democratic_presidential_primary-5466.html"]Arizona:[/URL] Clinton 50-24 Bernie, he's down 26 points, [B]also this state is voting next week.[/B][/QUOTE] Welp, rip USA then lmao He could coast to victory with his 80+% support in the 18-35 age demographic in each of those states, but honestly, that will only happen if voter turnout is high, which it won't be. RIP At least Trump won't be president. Still holding out hope but we'll see. Not willing to TOXX a sanders win :v:
This country is dying as it is. Me voting for Bernie when he doesn't get the nomination won't change that. The problem we have is too many stupid, uneducated, and apathetic, voters that allow frauds to be successful in politics today. There's a slight chance things could improve once the super religious baby boomers die off, but even then, I wouldn't get my hopes up. So I'll vote for him in the primaries next month and probably in the general election. If people are too stupid to make informed votes, I'm not to blame for it. Better yet. I can complain no matter who wins in November because I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump. I can criticize both sides for going against their own interests. Once this semester is over I'll apply to a university in Europe and work on getting my citizenship abroad. Years from now, I''l be able to look with amusement at election time as every poor bastard in America keeps on supporting the lesser of two evils, expecting things to change. It's either that or I start a resistance movement in the states against Reich fuhrer Trump. We'll see what happens.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49958397]It's not even I'm salty he lost, I don't vote because i'm vindictive. I vote to express my opinion on what I want out of this country. If we keep up the "vote so at least x doesn't win!" Nothing will change in this country.[/QUOTE] nothing will change if you let a complete dirtbag win either. unfortunately the general election is not the place for this kind of overhaul
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