Russia bombeed Tbilisi's airport.
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL768040420080810[/url]
[QUOTE=TheTalon]But Russian backed Serparatist killed 10 Georgians before all of that![/QUOTE]
Boo hoo, that's what you should expect when you serve under a government which has a bad Human Rights record, plus Georgian soldiers went crazy with the civilians (rapes, looting, executions) in the early 90s when they had wars with these secessionists.
Just because they are pro-Western doesn't mean they are innocent. I think shelling the city indiscriminately and aiming at refugees fleeing to Russia shows their intent to bring stability either.
That said though, Russia should've stayed in Ossetia. Bombing the rest of Georgia isn't needed, but then again the Americans, British, and their allies did the same thing when they expanded the war into the rest of Serbia and Yugoslavia when they were securing Kosovo. In the end, Georgia overreached and interfered with things they should've handled more diplomatically.
They should have known something was amiss when they captured Russian spies in Georgia during the NATO talks, but I guess they just assumed Russia would sit by and let them do what they want.
[QUOTE=Bitores]Russia bombeed Tbilisi's airport.
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL768040420080810[/url][/QUOTE]
Where's the USAF planes gonna land now that all the airfields are getting blown up?
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan]Where's the USAF planes gonna land now that all the airfields are getting blown up?[/QUOTE]
Most of the big countries have plans to convert straight stretches of highways to airstrips as well as making quick makeshift ones, but I'm not sure if Georgia's military is as skilled for those kinds of maneuvers.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan]What does this mean.[/QUOTE]
Georgia isn't in europe is it?
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=MercZ]Most of the big countries have plans to convert straight stretches of roads to airfields as well as making quick makeshift ones, but I'm not sure if Georgia's military is as skilled.[/QUOTE]
For the last three years the Georgians have been trained by the US military.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan]Where's the USAF planes gonna land now that all the airfields are getting blown up?[/QUOTE]
Turkey will probably allow them to land.
[QUOTE=Toline]Georgia isn't in europe is it?
[b]Edit:[/b]
For the last three years the Georgians have been trained by the US military.
[b]Edit:[/b]
Turkey will probably allow them to land.[/QUOTE]
I dunno if it is or not because apparently Turkey is?
[QUOTE=Toline]
For the last three years the Georgians have been trained by the US military.
[/QUOTE]
The 2000 sent to Iraq were, not their whole military.
[QUOTE=Toline]Georgia isn't in europe is it?[/quote]
It's in the Caucasus, which is sometimes considered as part of Europe, but most geographers place it as a part of Asia.
[quote]For the last three years the Georgians have been trained by the US military.[/quote]
Again, as the user above said, that was only the ones working in Iraq, and I doubt they trained those how to make an airstrip in case of an invasion.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan]I dunno if it is or not because apparently Turkey is?[/QUOTE]
Turkey probably would, they give head to Western politicians almost as much as the Georgians do (and an equally dismal human rights track), and they're NATO as well.
[QUOTE=Conscript]The 2000 sent to Iraq were, not their whole military.[/QUOTE]
The Georgians, though outnumbered, in the shorter term have several advantages. They are not badly equipped. The former Soviet T72, for example, their main battle tank, is a reasonable match for the Russians' T90. [b]The army has been American-trained, and increasingly American-equipped, for the past 10 years[/b], and strongly focused on Nato admission: there will be some capable commanders and staff officers, therefore.
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2531026/Georgia-US-training-gives-Georgia-military-advantage.html[/url]
[QUOTE=MercZ]
Turkey probably would, they give head to Western politicians almost as much as the Georgians do (and an equally dismal human rights track), and they're NATO as well.[/QUOTE]
Damn why are people constantly bringing up human rights of Georgia and now Turkey.
In terms of human rights you can say Russia was/is far behind...
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan]What does this mean.[/QUOTE]
Something along the lines of "The EU is not going to let this slide" and "SHIT'S ABOUT TO GO DOWN BITCHES".
[QUOTE=MercZ]Again, Georgia's got some serious political and social issues that've been played down due to it being pro-Western.[/QUOTE]
It's like Saudi Arabia. "Who cares if you dismember criminals, you got a shitload of oil!"
[QUOTE=RBM11v2]It's like Saudi Arabia. "Who cares if you dismember criminals, you got a shitload of oil!"[/QUOTE]
Did you ever get any info on Camp Lejeune
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan]Did you ever get any info on Camp Lejeune[/QUOTE]
No, I don't really know how to contact him(read as: I'm too fucking lazy). And if anything happened there, he would contact us first. He did when he went to Iraq.
[QUOTE=Sporkfire]
In terms of human rights you can say Russia was/is far behind...[/QUOTE]
Russia actually recognizes ethnic minorities with the exception of Chechnya. Islam is freely practiced among certain groups and there is no governmental taboo against them and people can speak their dialect as they want. Georgia on the other hand has been trying to forcibly assimilate these people, and that's not the right way to go.
Again, Ossetians and Abkhazians know how Russia is, and if they'd rather be a part of Russia with all the issues Russia has, it gives you an idea of how bad off Georgia is. There's also issues with Georgia giving special privileges including funding to the Orthodox church while ignoring Islam and traditional religions of the area, heavily influenced state-run media, refugees from Ossetia being treated like shit during the 91-93 war and still being treated as such, as well as torture being used by the police.
And I'm bringing this up because I'm pointing out that the Western Nations are on friendly terms with these governments not because they are innocent or clean, it's for military purposes. They set bad double standards to the world doing so.
[QUOTE=Sporkfire]Damn why are people constantly bringing up human rights of Georgia and now Turkey.
In terms of human rights you can say Russia was/is far behind...[/QUOTE]
Well as far as I know the only humans rights violations if any IIRC were in the Chechnyan wars. Of course the Russian Empire and Soviet Union were atrotious when it came to human rights but that doesn't really apply because in the modern day it's a democracy.
[QUOTE=RBM11v2]that doesn't really apply because in the modern day it's a democracy.[/QUOTE]
As far as "democracy" goes in Russia anyways.
Fun documentry on Russia and how much they suck balls,
PART 1: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeK6spOIVro[/url]
PART 2: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNmQlv9lCHk&feature=related[/url]
PART 3: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTJQ_H0xcpA&feature=related[/url]
PART 4: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ABqLO01sM&feature=related[/url]
PART 5: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gg17VAZiXo&feature=related[/url]
PART 6: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3SCQDhUQ8o&feature=related[/url]
[QUOTE=TheTalon]I still think Russia is more at fault... Georgia attacks Russian Peacekeepers, hits some civilians too, but Russia attacks military and civilians inside Georgia itself, not even in the conflict zone, Basically they Got stung by a bee, so they went in to kill the beehive in the neighbors yard
Besides, didn't georgia get hit by artillery fire by Russian backed separatists during a cease fire? At least that's what they claimed[/QUOTE]
I dunno, if i had a Flame thrower...
[b]Edit:[/b]
also, i didn't feel like reading the last 5-6 pages. :\
[QUOTE=MercZ]Russia actually recognizes ethnic minorities with the exception of Chechnya. Islam is freely practiced among certain groups and there is no governmental taboo against them and people can speak their dialect as they want. Georgia on the other hand has been trying to forcibly assimilate these people, and that's not the right way to go.
Again, Ossetians and Abkhazians know how Russia is, and if they'd rather be a part of Russia with all the issues Russia has, it gives you an idea of how bad off Georgia is.
And I'm bringing this up because I'm pointing out that the Western Nations are on friendly terms with these governments not because they are innocent or clean, it's for military purposes. They set bad double standards to the world doing so.[/QUOTE]
If I recall, they voted for independence. Not to join Russia. If you have an unbiased source that says otherwise, I would love to see it.
Russia is not the thriving beacon of liberty in the sea of the evil, evil Georgians you might want to believe.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=RBM11v2]but that doesn't really apply because in the modern day it's a democracy.[/QUOTE]
Haha, jesus christ you're naive.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=Toline]Fun documentry on Russia and how much they suck balls,
PART 1: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeK6spOIVro[/url]
PART 2: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNmQlv9lCHk&feature=related[/url]
PART 3: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTJQ_H0xcpA&feature=related[/url]
PART 4: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ABqLO01sM&feature=related[/url]
PART 5: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gg17VAZiXo&feature=related[/url]
PART 6: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3SCQDhUQ8o&feature=related[/url][/QUOTE]
Post your: Unflattering documentaries of Russia
Part 1: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUxuq-E9yA[/url]
Part 2: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuOVgx3Zh6E&feature=related[/url]
I have a feeling this might end worse than we expect it to end.
[QUOTE=drive_the_hive]I have a feeling this might end worse than we expect it to end.[/QUOTE]
for some people "worse" means "it will end peacefully"
deep down some people know this is how they feel
Jesus christ 53 pages in two days?
We must have broken a record of some sorts...
[QUOTE=TheLinxV3]Jesus christ 53 pages in two days?
We must have broken a record of some sorts...[/QUOTE]
if it's about russia, 53 pages is sure to follow.
[QUOTE=Dr_Chippay]
Post your: Unflattering documentaries of Russia
Part 1: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUxuq-E9yA[/url]
Part 2: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuOVgx3Zh6E&feature=related[/url][/QUOTE]
Nazi's in Russia :D
America has Nazi's too...
[QUOTE=Dr_Chippay]If I recall, they voted for independence. Not to join Russia. If you have an unbiased source that says otherwise, I would love to see it.
Russia is not the thriving beacon of liberty in the sea of the evil, evil Georgians you might want to believe.
[/QUOTE]
You're putting words in my mouth like you are with others. I never said Russia was any better, I'm just saying that Georgia isn't an advanced, happy, or an honorable nation, nor is it a victim of Russian aggression. It messed things up on its own accord already and isn't an ally worth saving. If Poland, Ukraine, or even the Czechs or Slovaks were attacked in this manner, then yes, but a shithole like Georgia who has incompetent generals and politicians isn't worth the effort.
As for Abkhazia's demands, they declared independence but that isn't recognized. Russia is one of the few entities that has relations with their government but falls short of actually recognizing them. The separatists in this region are Russian backed, and that doesn't need a source, but here you go.
[url]http://www.iwpr.net/?p=crs&s=f&o=161049&apc_state=henicrs2004[/url]
In that article it says they are Russian backed, and that's just the government. While they are saying they want independence, the fact that they've chosen now to engage the Georgian army at this convenient timing after years of inaction shows who's really pulling their strings. Even if they remain independence, they will be wholly subservient to Moscow and will rely on Russia to help them with economic infrastructure.
[QUOTE=GiacJr]if it's about russia, 53 pages is sure to follow.[/QUOTE]
This is unfortunately because we have dipshits who are brainwashed to hate Russia, the people who assume that since Georgia is pro-Western it is instantly holy, and Russophiles who love Russia and the Soviet Union before it. In between it some are trying to voice reason and logic, and others are putting troll bait to continue the drama. In short, it is the Internet.
updates anyone?
Especially on considered action by the four countries saying they won't be silent about all this.
[QUOTE=Tigster]updates anyone?[/QUOTE]
Aside from Georgia's military being out powered and outgunned, and more pleas for a ceasefire (US, EU envoys going to the region to try and negotiate one), no.
The oil pipeline has begun to come into question now, since the Russians are in a position to destroy it, and force more of the Azeri oil to flow through their end and remove a pro-Western distributor of the oil (Georgia has no oil, but they have a pipeline from the Azerbaijan Caspian Oilfields, which Russian businessmen have controlling shares in certain companies there anyways)
Also, some guy in Georgia Twittering in Russian - [url]http://twitter.com/wardirect[/url]
[QUOTE=HubmaN V4]Also, some guy in Georgia Twittering in Russian - [url]http://twitter.com/wardirect[/url][/QUOTE]
Wow, now that's a way to help out your country *cough*.
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