[QUOTE=TheTalon]Georgia Declared a state of war, Russia advanced on Georgia and attacked them, even outside the original zone of conflict where this all started (and still is after Georgia has pulled out, AND offered a Cease Fire that went IGNORED), It's russia who has become the criminal aggressor[/QUOTE]
True. But war is war, you can't let up and give the enemy a chance. If Russia held South Ossetia the Georgians would just regroup and bitch and bitch for international support, Russia need to take them out now, so there is no war for people to get involved in.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains]What's happening now is Georgia's fault, Georgia is offically declared war on Russia. Russia shouldn't be pressured to back off back to South Ossetia until Georgia offically surrender.
I wonder if South Ossetia will be given independance or will be miserably swallowed up into Russia.
And I wonder if Russia will just make an example of Georgia, or merge them into Russia.
karimatrix - Everyone knows CNN is utter bullshit and that BBC is prone to bullshit too, but it isn't like Russian media is being unbiased, they are constantly streaming messages of a genocide. Let people make up their own minds.[/QUOTE]
South Ossetia is PART OF GEORGIA.
IT WAS NEVER OFFICIALLY DECLARED INDEPENDENT!
So for the NATO, South Ossetia is GEORGIA.
GEORGIA "invaded" IT'S OWN TERRITORY.
So imagine you are Georgia.
You fight rebells in your own country, and suddenly, russia helps the rebell by moving into the territory with big-ass military and even war-ships right in front of your coast, tell me, wouldn't you declare war?
[QUOTE=karimatrix]From wiki - Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.
Right now this happening with South Osetian people.[/QUOTE]
You may be right, since most Ossetians are infact Russians
[QUOTE=TheTalon]Georgia Declared a state of war, Russia advanced on Georgia and attacked them, even outside the original zone of conflict where this all started (and still is after Georgia has pulled out, AND offered a Cease Fire that went IGNORED), It's russia who has become the criminal aggressor[/QUOTE]
Georgia fucking deserves it
They are bullshitting with Russia. They said they would retreat, they didn't. They started attacking S. Ossetia and killing Russian PEACEkeepers and civilians. Russia offered cease fire, they didn't care, they declared war and now Russia doesn't care. Georgia is acting guilty now and if Russia feels pity for them and stops attacking Georgia and remains in S. Ossetia until they retreat I'm going to be amazed.
[QUOTE=karimatrix]Show me atleast ONE video from Gori, where we can clearly see Russian military shotting journalist.[/QUOTE]
Tell me: who would document this? A journalist?
:rolleye:
[QUOTE=SeamanStains]True. But war is war, you can't let up and give the enemy a chance. If Russia held South Ossetia the Georgians would just regroup and bitch and bitch for international support, Russia need to take them out now, so there is no war for people to get involved in.[/QUOTE]
Hey we are Russia, we took a piece of Georgia, better take out the rest before they can get international help.
[QUOTE=Killuah]South Ossetia is PART OF GEORGIA.
IT WAS NEVER OFFICIALLY DECLARED INDEPENDENT!
So for the NATO, South Ossetia is GEORGIA.
GEORGIA "invaded" IT'S OWN TERRITORY.
So imagine you are Georgia.
You fight rebells in your own country, and suddenly, russia helps the rebell by moving into the territory with big-ass military and even war-ships right in front of your coast, tell me, wouldn't you declare war?[/QUOTE]
It's all ok with your Info but you forgot agreement of 1992 year.
And the fact that Russia is peacemaker in South Osetia since 1992. So basically it not about invading own territory. Its about invading territory with kiling people who live on it, peacemakers and breaking all threats and agreements.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman]Georgia fucking deserves it
They are bullshitting with Russia. They said they would retreat, they didn't. They started attacking S. Ossetia and killing Russian PEACEkeepers and civilians. Russia offered cease fire, they didn't care, they declared war and now Russia doesn't care. Georgia is acting guilty now and if Russia feels pity for them and stops attacking Georgia and remains in S. Ossetia until they retreat I'm going to be amazed.[/QUOTE]
It all comes down to just who you like more... Like it's been said S Ossetia was never declared Independant and as such it's recognized as a part of Georgia, Now Russia is infact advancing into Georgia, beyond S Ossetia...
If A country invaded mine, and I took one of my Rifles and shot at the occupants, then the next day a Hand Grenade from the Occupant's force gets tossed into my Living Room... Am I an innocent Civilian or a Rebel/Resistance Fighter? Just all depends on what side you side with
[QUOTE=karimatrix]It's all ok with your Info but you forgot agreement of 1992 year.
And the fact that Russia is peacemaker in South Osetia since 1992. So basically it not about invading own territory. Its about invading territory with kiling people who live on it, peacemakers and breaking all threats and agreements.[/QUOTE]
Uh, if I am right, it's the rebells that Russia failed to keep down that made Georgia move into this territory in the first place.
[QUOTE=Killuah]South Ossetia is PART OF GEORGIA.
IT WAS NEVER OFFICIALLY DECLARED INDEPENDENT!
So for the NATO, South Ossetia is GEORGIA.
GEORGIA "invaded" IT'S OWN TERRITORY.
So imagine you are Georgia.
You fight rebells in your own country, and suddenly, russia helps the rebell by moving into the territory with big-ass military and even war-ships right in front of your coast, tell me, wouldn't you declare war?[/QUOTE]
Fuck the boundries on the map, South Ossetia want to be independant, so they should be! Why should any population be forced to live in a country they don't want to.
I'm British, and I support Ireland and their fight for independence, maybe not their terrorist and insurgent methods, but certainly the fact that they should not be forced to take part in a union they do not want to be in.
Most of South Ossetias separatists are uniformed combatants, tell me they are not independant!
The only information anybody has as to the motivations of either side is [B]supplied by one of them.[/B]
You can know what is happening, but you have no idea why it's happening.
As a rule, assume everything you hear from either the russians or the georgians on this to be a lie, then see if you can work out what is going on, you might be able to get a more accurate picture.
An example: Georgia claims to have asked for a ceasefire, russia claims they aren't acting like they want a ceasefire, assume both of them are lying. Georgia stands to benefit from their accusations because it makes russia look like the evil invaders, and russia stands to benefit from theirs because it gives them justification for their invasion.
So don't assume that either of them is telling the truth, wait and see what is actually happening and definitely wait for someone who doesn't stand to benefit from lying about it to tell you what is happening.
[QUOTE=karimatrix]The most Pro-Georgian picture compilation i see.
Fun thing - look at headlines of photos.
Man cry near dead body - "A georgian man cries as he holds the body of hi relative after the bombardment. Look what a great camerawork! How great showed the emotions and...wait...where is all blood on this guy...towel close his leg and his clothes are clean?...
And a big fail - on picture number 21 there is RUSSIAN cars moving...bad work Gentelmens...
Also loved how they called "unnamed" locations of Georgian artillery :)
But wait! They showed a "separatist" leaving a Tshinval... wait it just very close shot of girl with cellphone sitting in car...or bus! I can't even understand where she is! Where is camera work? Where is all drama? ...
Gori incident is a big provacation - there is no photos or videos with ANY russian soldier or tank in Gori! Looks like Georgian attacked city by themselfs to make it look like Russian attack. Sick fuckers...[/QUOTE]
Watch the video, buddy. You guys dropped some on an apartment block in Gori, that wasn't a group of Georgian Planes. Considering all 7 fighters in their airforce are destroyed.
The Georgians also killed some civilians, but the civilian killing on both sides is being greatly exaggerated.
[QUOTE=Killuah]South Ossetia is PART OF GEORGIA.
IT WAS NEVER OFFICIALLY DECLARED INDEPENDENT!
So for the NATO, South Ossetia is GEORGIA.
GEORGIA "invaded" IT'S OWN TERRITORY.
So imagine you are Georgia.
You fight rebells in your own country, and suddenly, russia helps the rebell by moving into the territory with big-ass military and even war-ships right in front of your coast, tell me, wouldn't you declare war?[/QUOTE]
S. Ossetia is independent, just not recognized INTERNACIONALLY.
It's part of Georgia but Georgia doesn't own S. Ossetia.
S. Ossetia wants to join Russia and Georgia attacked killing some of their own people living there and russians. Russia went to S. Ossetia to DEFEND the SEPARATISTS and Georgia pushed it declaring war. Abkhazia saw a chance because it wants to join Russia to and attacked Georgia too. It's Abkhasia, S. Ossetia and Russia agaisnt Georgia because Georgia fucked up big time and if they don't quit now, they are fucked unless someone helps.
[QUOTE=Killuah]Uh, if I am right, it's the rebells that Russia failed to keep down that made Georgia move into this territory in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Sir, you just inverted WHOLE conflict in S Osetia/Georgia.
Jesus christ 2 days and 59 pages?!
I can't possibly read all this shit!
[QUOTE=Killuah]South Ossetia is PART OF GEORGIA.
IT WAS NEVER OFFICIALLY DECLARED INDEPENDENT!
So for the NATO, South Ossetia is GEORGIA.
GEORGIA "invaded" IT'S OWN TERRITORY.
So imagine you are Georgia.
You fight rebells in your own country, and suddenly, russia helps the rebell by moving into the territory with big-ass military and even war-ships right in front of your coast, tell me, wouldn't you declare war?[/QUOTE]
No it is not. It was sovereign from Georgia in the Soviet time (as the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast), until the Georgian Supreme Soviet revoked that autonomy in 1990. It fought for its independence, and yet has not been globally recognized (funny how Kosovo was :rolleye:).
If I was Georgia, I would not be shelling (what I consider to be) my own people.
[QUOTE=karimatrix]Show me atleast ONE video from Gori, where we can clearly see Russian military shotting journalist.
Also now i understand how far you are people from conflict if you can't believe Georgian Goverment could give order to kill his own people... Saakashvili was big shit Tiran even before war.[/QUOTE]
CNN just showed video of a reporter getting shot at a kilometer after they crossed the GEORGIAN-South Ossetian border, he said that it was "[I][U][B]Likely[/B][/U] Russian forces[/I]".
Though, i wouldn't be too hard on the Russians, since no-one should really be crossing the border when the capital is only 3KM from the border, becuase you never know if it's just civilians, or a Special ops Recon team scouting Russian positions for artillery strikes
[quote=CNN]The U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Zalmay Khalilzad, told the Security Council that Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that Saakashvili "must go."
"This is completely unacceptable and crosses a line," Khalilzad said.
In a crackling exchange of a type rarely seen since the end of the Cold War, Khalilzad asked Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin whether the Russians were seeking "regime change" in Georgia with the military operation they launched Friday. In response, Churkin objected to the disclosure of a confidential phone call between top diplomats and shot back that "regime change" was [B]"an American expression."[/B]
[/quote]
[B]RUSSIA STRIKES BACK![/B]
[QUOTE=Bitores]Watch the video, buddy. You guys dropped some on an apartment block in Gori, that wasn't a group of Georgian Planes. Considering all 7 fighters in their airforce are destroyed.
The Georgians also killed some civilians, but the civilian killing on both sides is being greatly exaggerated.[/QUOTE]
Ok, lets remove all Black and White colors, accept Gori incident as real one and just look at stats.
Georgian dead citizens - 30
South Osetian dead citizens - over 2500.
Does make much sence?
I wonder how they will go when their Russian womans team ( volleyball or basketball ) have to verse the Georgian one tomorrow in the Olympics..
[QUOTE=karimatrix]Ok, lets remove all Black and White colors, accept Gori incident as real one and just look at stats.
Georgian dead citizens - 30
South Osetian dead citizens - over 2500.
Does make much sence?[/QUOTE]
Explain to me why you think these LAND ROVERS, with GEORGIAN LICENSE PLATES, were Russian?
[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26090865/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/21/[/url]
[QUOTE=Gwoodman]S. Ossetia is independent, just not recognized INTERNACIONALLY.
It's part of Georgia but Georgia doesn't own S. Ossetia.
S. Ossetia wants to join Russia and Georgia attacked killing some of their own people living there and russians. Russia went to S. Ossetia to DEFEND the SEPARATISTS and Georgia pushed it declaring war. Abkhazia saw a chance because it wants to join Russia to and attacked Georgia too. It's Abkhasia, S. Ossetia and Russia agaisnt Georgia because Georgia fucked up big time and if they don't quit now, they are fucked unless someone helps.[/QUOTE]
YOu know, revenge strikes on Gerorgian territory is not really what I call defending.
[QUOTE=LesGunKid]CNN just showed video of a reporter getting shot at a kilometer after they crossed the GEORGIAN-South Ossetian border, he said that it was "[I][U][B]Likely[/B][/U] Russian forces[/I]".
Though, i wouldn't be too hard on the Russians, since no-one should really be crossing the border when the capital is only 3KM from the border, becuase you never know if it's just civilians, or a Special ops Recon team scouting Russian positions for artillery strikes[/QUOTE]
Shooting First asking questions later is what started this whole thing basically, damn separatist that killed 10 Georgians! (BEFORE the Shelling of Toshnival)
[QUOTE=karimatrix]Ok, lets remove all Black and White colors, accept Gori incident as real one and just look at stats.
Georgian dead citizens - 30
South Osetian dead citizens - over 2500.
Does make much sence?[/QUOTE]
We can't trust the numbers of both sides.
[QUOTE=Griml3xx]I wonder how they will go when their Russian womans team ( volleyball or basketball ) have to verse the Georgian one tomorrow in the Olympics..[/QUOTE]
I was watching something about that in the news. There were two women, one georgian, the other russian hugging and the narrator describing their disregard for their differences because of the conflict.
[QUOTE=Griml3xx]I wonder how they will go when their Russian womans team ( volleyball or basketball ) have to verse the Georgian one tomorrow in the Olympics..[/QUOTE]
Probably the same as the Silver and Bronze Georgia and Russian medal winners from Marksmanship went... They Hugged each other with smiles.
*edit* Damnit Conscript!
Russia came second today in the 10m Womans airpistol and Georgia came third, but the two of them are friends.
Hopefully politics won't get in the way of good sport (womans volleyball :v:).
[QUOTE=Killuah]YOu know, revenge strikes on Gerorgian territory is not really what I call defending.[/QUOTE]
They started attacking when Georgia declared war after they help the separatist, silly buns.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman]They started attacking when Georgia declared war after they help the separatist, silly buns.[/QUOTE]
Georgia only officially declared war a couple hours ago, somewhere around 10:00 UTC (I Think)
[QUOTE=TheTalon]Georgia only officially declared war a couple hours ago[/QUOTE]
They declared a state of war (unofficial) yesterday.
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