Bitcoin-based credit card reportedly due in two months
229 replies, posted
[QUOTE='[EG] Pepper;37365766']Or he spills his drink on it or gets a power surge.
[editline]23rd August 2012[/editline]
Seriously though, it's risky as fuck mate.[/QUOTE]
What tells you that bitcoin is either going to suddenly become worthless or suddenly become so popular that his machine won't be able to pay itself off in its usable lifetime?
[QUOTE=jakedog;37365704]You're all soooooo skeptic, it's great.[/QUOTE]
Ok Jake, even if your math is right and given that all variables stay relatively the same (which is pretty fucking unlikely) then you still have other factors: what if your 30,000 gets damaged, if the cooling doesn't work, what if can't pay out the loan, seriously...it's just so many fucking things to put at risk for a pretty silly business that doesn't even give that much profit and that can't be sustained in the long term. You could invest into many other things with 30,000$. Ooh the things I would put forth with 30,000$
[QUOTE=mblunk;37365807]What tells you that bitcoin is either going to suddenly become worthless or suddenly become so popular that his machine won't be able to pay itself off in its usable lifetime?[/QUOTE]
Read the first part of my post please.
It's not bitcoin i'm on about, it's the machine.
[QUOTE=barttool;37365809]Ok Jake, even if your math is right and given that all variables stay relatively the same (which is pretty fucking unlikely) then you still have other factors: what if your 30,000 gets damaged, if the cooling doesn't work, what if can't pay out the loan, seriously...it's just so many fucking things to put at risk for a pretty silly business that doesn't even give that much profit and that can't be sustained in the long term. You could invest into many other things with 30,000$. Ooh the things I would put forth with 30,000$[/QUOTE]
For a 30k machine, I'm pretty sure they'll design a solid cooling system. Even if some of the parameters of the bitcoin market change, it's incredibly unlikely they'll do so in a way that makes this investment worthless.
[QUOTE='[EG] Pepper;37365829']Read the first part of my post please.
It's not bitcoin i'm on about, it's the machine.[/QUOTE]
How often have you killed a computer with a spilled drink/power surge? Of course this is talking about a normal, ~$1k machine, not one worth 30 times that much (plus predicted mining revenue) that will be put away in a safe place and left alone. Not to mention a UPS would take care of the power surge risk if that's what you're concerned about.
[QUOTE=mblunk;37365853]For a 30k machine, I'm pretty sure they'll design a solid cooling system. Even if some of the parameters of the bitcoin market change, it's incredibly unlikely they'll do so in a way that makes this investment worthless.
[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry where's your proof??
[QUOTE=mblunk;37365853]For a 30k machine, I'm pretty sure they'll design a solid cooling system. Even if some of the parameters of the bitcoin market change, it's incredibly unlikely they'll do so in a way that makes this investment worthless.
How often have you killed a computer with a spilled drink/power surge? Of course this is talking about a normal, ~$1k machine, not one worth 30 times that much (plus predicted mining revenue) that will be put away in a safe place and left alone. Not to mention a UPS would take care of the power surge risk if that's what you're concerned about.[/QUOTE]
Personally i have never spilled anything on any of my computers.
And what about something like burglary?
[QUOTE=scout1;37365900]I'm sorry where's your proof??[/QUOTE]
My evidence is that, from what I've seen, very expensive products like these are built with at least some degree of stability and quality. Anecdotal, yes, but would you like to disagree? Then prove to me that manufacturers of $30,000 items produce them without regard to system longevity. Good luck.
We're grabbing at edge cases here. Is there a way for this plan to fail? Yes. Is it likely? Probably not more than a 5% chance based on topics discussed here. Although bitcoin is big enough now that it's not going anywhere anytime soon, my biggest concern would be the value of bitcoin itself in the future. Then again, even if it crashed again, many people would stop mining and jake would earn a ton, only to be able to sell them when the market comes back up or whenever he's mined at least enough to pay off the machine plus interest.
[QUOTE='[EG] Pepper;37365943']Personally i have never spilled anything on any of my computers.
And what about something like burglary?[/QUOTE]
Well, that would suck, but then again, when was the last time you got burgled? Besides, even if the machine got stolen/destroyed/whatever, all of the coin he's earned with it up to that point will still be in his pool account waiting for collection.
[IMG]http://www.jrbooksonline.com/jew-bwa-ha-ha.gif[/IMG]
Bitcoins... I've got an idea...
[QUOTE=mblunk;37365987]My evidence is that, from what I've seen, very expensive products like these are built with at least some degree of stability and quality. Anecdotal, yes, but would you like to disagree? Then prove to me that manufacturers of $30,000 items produce them without regard to system longevity. Good luck.
[/QUOTE]
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniffex[/URL]
[QUOTE=mblunk;37365987]
5% chance based on topics discussed here.
[/QUOTE]
Proof?
[quote=mblunk;37365987]
Although bitcoin is big enough now that it's not going anywhere anytime soon
[/quote]
"too big to fail"
[quote=mblunk;37365987]
Then again, even if it crashed again, many people would stop mining and jake would earn a ton, only to be able to sell them when the market comes back up or whenever he's mined at least enough to pay off the machine plus interest.
[/quote]
Allow me to refute this point specifically and your entire concept of bitcoin as an actual currency
[img]http://i.imgur.com/dTqf9.png[/img]
Behold a graph of the value of bitcoin as traded with USD via the mtgox exchange. Notice the huge spike?! Notice the huge drop?! etc. etc.
Honestly you're a damned fool if you think this is a good idea, and the guy himself even moreso
[QUOTE=mblunk;37365987]Well, that would suck, but then again, when was the last time you got burgled? Besides, even if the machine got stolen/destroyed/whatever, all of the coin he's earned with it up to that point will still be in his pool account waiting for collection.[/QUOTE]
If something happened to the machine say, a month after he bought it, he still has that debt waiting at the bank.
Call me paranoid, but i personally don't want ANY chance of going under. All i can say is for now, start small and don't get yourself into that sort of position financially.
[QUOTE=mblunk;37364520]
Ponzi schemes: You're only part of a ponzi scheme if you decide to join it. This only affects those who buy into it, not bitcoin as a whole.[/QUOTE]
I don't know it seems like the collapse of Pirate's ponzi scheme (caused by a withdrawl run, to which not many people have been able to collect their invested cosbycoins back) which moved onto mass selling lowering the value of Bitcoin for everyone.
Bitcoin S&L (the ponzi scheme) announced it's closure at around 6pm, look at what happened afterwards
[img]http://www.welp.im/ages/btc-ponzi-crash.png[/img]
Don't pretend Ponzi schemes affect only the people invested in them.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37366119]I don't know it seems like the collapse of Pirate's ponzi scheme (caused by a withdrawl run, to which not many people have been able to collect their invested cosbycoins back) which moved onto mass selling lowering the value of Bitcoin for everyone.
Bitcoin S&L (the ponzi scheme) announced it's closure at around 6pm, look at what happened afterwards
[img]http://www.welp.im/ages/btc-ponzi-crash.png[/img]
Don't pretend Ponzi schemes affect only the people invested in them.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8zpEg5k1PRY/TVwsGKqtSDI/AAAAAAAAHco/h08VAv2zQeY/s1600/madoffweb.jpg[/IMG]
Well, start the work now! :D
[QUOTE=scout1;37366065][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniffex[/URL]
Proof?
[highlight]I was estimating[/highlight]
"too big to fail"
[highlight]Yes, even big things can fail, but they're less likely to than small things.[/highlight]
Allow me to refute this point specifically and your entire concept of bitcoin as an actual currency
[t]http://i.imgur.com/dTqf9.png[/t]
Behold a graph of the value of bitcoin as traded with USD via the mtgox exchange. Notice the huge spike?! Notice the huge drop?! etc. etc.
Honestly you're a damned fool if you think this is a good idea, and the guy himself even moreso
[highlight]Yes, I know about the big crash, that's why I said if it crashed [b]again[/b]. You didn't address the rest of my sentence here. Even if there was a huge drop, that means less people will mine and bitcoin will be easier to get, which he can then sell whenever he has enough to pay it off.[/highlight][/QUOTE]
responses
[QUOTE='[EG] Pepper;37366073']If something happened to the machine say, a month after he bought it, he still has that debt waiting at the bank.
Call me paranoid, but i personally don't want ANY chance of going under. All i can say is for now, start small and don't get yourself into that sort of position financially.[/QUOTE]
You're a little bit paranoid, but that's your opinion and you acknowledge that, which is fine (and of course, the idea that this thing is wise is only my opinion as well)
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;37366119]I don't know it seems like the collapse of Pirate's ponzi scheme (caused by a withdrawl run, to which not many people have been able to collect their invested cosbycoins back) which moved onto mass selling lowering the value of Bitcoin for everyone.
Bitcoin S&L (the ponzi scheme) announced it's closure at around 6pm, look at what happened afterwards
[t]http://www.welp.im/ages/btc-ponzi-crash.png[/t]
Don't pretend Ponzi schemes affect only the people invested in them.[/QUOTE]
If we're going to talk about what's going on right now, then let's not crop our viewpoint so much:
[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3b7L61QW1Vk/UDWQ9cS1CtI/AAAAAAAAC4A/SrnpCLUAnYc/s0/chart.png[/img]
I don't know about you, but looking at that, I wouldn't be too worried. Of course, whether or not that worries jake is up to him.
We need a new ponzi scheme, like selling $30k computers people can buy with bitcoins!!!
[QUOTE=Trogdon;37366250]We need a new ponzi scheme, like selling $30k computers people can buy with bitcoins!!![/QUOTE]
How is the mining rig business an inherent ponzi scheme? The only thing similar is that earlier investors get the most reward, but that's often the case in life. Early ASIC buyers don't rely on later buyers to be funded (in fact, more buyers later means less long-term profit for the early buyer.)
But the question is:
I can buy things with those bitcoins?
[QUOTE=oskramorir;37366285]But the question is:
I can buy things with those bitcoins?[/QUOTE]
If this whole card idea goes through, then yes.
And I can change them for paypal money? I need money for steam games.
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366221]
[B]I was estimating[/B][/QUOTE]
And you're still wrong, proof in point
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366221]
[B]Yes, even big things can fail, but they're less likely to than small things.[/B][/QUOTE]
???
Says who/what?
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366221]
[B]Yes, I know about the big crash, that's why I said if it crashed [/B][B]again. You didn't address the rest of my sentence here. Even if there was a huge drop, that means less people will mine and bitcoin will be easier to get, which he can then sell whenever he has enough to pay it off.[/B][/QUOTE]
That doesn't account for bitcoin that is hoarded, or a myriad of other economic factors.
You didn't address the fact that you're pulling numbers out your ass. "5% chance" to fail. That 5% is calculated how? You claim to want proof and you're making up numbers and ignoring economics
[QUOTE=oskramorir;37366326]And I can change them for paypal money? I need money for steam games.[/QUOTE]
Paypal is full of scammers because you can take your money back after you pay someone with it, but you can't do that with bitcoin. However, you can buy steam games with bitcoin directly from traders or websites with reputation.
[editline]22nd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=scout1;37366336]And you're still wrong, proof in point
[highlight]So now your points are inherently proven without evidence? Ok.[/highlight]
???
Says who/what?
[highlight]Ever heard of a startup company? Know how well they usually do? Ever heard of a corporation? Know how well they usually do? Bitcoin's market cap is now approaching $100 million, which is pretty big for a startup.[/highlight]
That doesn't account for bitcoin that is hoarded, or a myriad of other economic factors.
[highlight]Like what? You've got my interest.[/highlight]
You didn't address the fact that you're pulling numbers out your ass. "5% chance" to fail. That 5% is calculated how? You claim to want proof and you're making up numbers and ignoring economics[/QUOTE]
Ok, prove my estimate wrong by telling me there's more there a greater combined chance than that due to burglary, failed cooling, failed market or whatever. You can just say 100% if that's what you really think, I was just stating my opinion based on what I've seen.
[QUOTE=jakedog;37346317]Dude, I'm going to invest $30,000 into a rig that will earn me $430 per day. It will pay itself off in less than 3 months, I'm sorry but how much do you make per day?[/QUOTE]
Go ahead mate, join the thousands of neckbeards who bravely went before you, throwing away their life savings to build mining rigs.
Ever wonder why you don't hear about all the success stories?
After all, some of them invested much more than $30,000 on racks of graphics cards and custom built PCs and started mining way back in 2009.
Are you implying that your plan is somehow better?
Reading through your posts you are literally the personification of the Bitcoin neckbeard. Just look at the 'Magic The Gathering Online Exchange' (Mt.Gox) guys! It can only go UP UP UP!
[IMG]http://buttcoin.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/buttcoin-infograph.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Platinumcs;37366419]Go ahead mate, join the thousands of neckbeards who bravely went before you, throwing away their life savings to build mining rigs.
Ever wonder why you don't hear about all the success stories? After all, some of them invested much more than $30,000 on racks of graphics cards and custom built PCs.
Are you implying that your plan is somehow better?
Reading through your posts you are literally the personification of the Bitcoin neckbeard. Just look at the 'Magic The Gathering Online Exchange' (Mt.Gox) guys! It can only go UP UP UP!
[t]http://buttcoin.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/buttcoin-infograph.png[/t][/QUOTE]
Maybe you don't hear from them because they're having too much fun at the bank, or they don't want you to know how much fun they're having at the bank (however much fun that may be)?
But yes, I've seen plenty of members on the bitcoin forums talking about how their investments are paying off. The rest of your post is just silly appeals to emotion provided by a satire website that has since shut down due to failure. The bitcoin website remains operating normally.
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366468]
But yes, I've seen plenty of members on the bitcoin forums talking about how their investments are paying off. The rest of your post is just silly appeals to emotion provided by a satire website that has since shut down due to failure. The bitcoin website remains operating normally.[/QUOTE]
'Operating normally' for a Bitcoin website means being hacked less than 3 times a week right?
Oh, and obligatory:
[IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/u/elpintogrande/june11/brainmelt.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366354][B]So now your points are inherently proven without evidence? Ok.[/B][/QUOTE]
Please stop doing this horrible quote inside the post thing
That said, no. However the burden of proof lays on you.
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366354][B]Ever heard of a startup company? Know how well they usually do? Ever heard of a corporation? Know how well they usually do? Bitcoin's market cap is now approaching $100 million, which is pretty big for a startup.[/B][/QUOTE]
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_business_failures[/URL]
Protip: There are more small businesses than big businesses. A lot more. Number of failures isn't something you can use as a comparison. Percentage, on the other hand...
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366354][B]Like what? You've got my interest.[/B][/QUOTE]
Please see: Keynesian economics, inflation theories, The Law of Value.
Actually just take economics 101 from your local university. It'll be easier that way.
[QUOTE=Platinumcs;37366531]'Operating normally' for a Bitcoin website means being hacked less than 3 times a week right?
Oh, and obligatory:
[IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/u/elpintogrande/june11/brainmelt.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
proof it's a waste
[QUOTE=scout1;37366551]Please stop doing this horrible quote inside the post thing
That said, no. However the burden of proof lays on you.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_business_failures[/URL]
Protip: There are more small businesses than big businesses. A lot more. Number of failures isn't something you can use as a comparison. Percentage, on the other hand...
Please see: Keynesian economics, inflation theories, The Law of Value.
Actually just take economics 101 from your local university. It'll be easier that way.[/QUOTE]
1. Ok, then I decline to prove my opinion. You got me.
2. Ok, bitcoin carries risk. You got me here too.
3. I did actually, macro and micro. Looks like I got you on this one. Professor was a big Keynesian. I still don't see bitcoin suddenly behaving in a way that makes this investment unlikely to pay off.
Was nice talking to you, thank you for avoiding using pathos-based arguments.
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366708]1. Ok, then I decline to prove my opinion. You got me.
2. Ok, bitcoin carries risk. You got me here too.
3. I did actually, macro and micro. Professor was a big Keynesian. I still don't see bitcoin suddenly behaving in a way that makes this investment unlikely to pay off.[/QUOTE]
That about wraps this up then
[QUOTE=mblunk;37366708]I still don't see bitcoin suddenly behaving in a way that makes this investment unlikely to pay off.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4a/Bitcoin_crash_2011-06-19.png/640px-Bitcoin_crash_2011-06-19.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Platinumcs;37366725][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4a/Bitcoin_crash_2011-06-19.png/640px-Bitcoin_crash_2011-06-19.png[/img][/QUOTE]
I can crop charts too.
[img]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kwAY_7nQyyc/UDWcqYW_34I/AAAAAAAAC4U/EiEMpouWsm8/s0/chart.png[/img]
Hindsight is 20/20 huh?
