[QUOTE=DogGunn;21427572]I can assure you, if the US, UK, Germany, India knew that Israel was firing directly upon innocent people, then they would stop their arms and munition trading. But this has not happened.[/QUOTE]
Are you fucking denying it? The fucking UK [b]is stopping their munitions trading with israel[/b] GJ.
There are fucking pictures dude, there are CONFIRMED casualties of civilians.
Also lets just completely ignore that israel is pretty much taking over palestine.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;21427615]Are you fucking denying it?
There are fucking pictures dude, there are CONFIRMED casualties of civilians.[/QUOTE]
No, I am not denyning that civilians were part of the casulty list, but I am denyning that Israel would fire directly onto civilians.
Can you please give sources to the claims Israel fired deliberately at civilians?
Also saying that Hamas just launched rockets blindly doesn't mean they don't target civilians. For 9 years they targeted civilians specifically with their rocket fire from Gaza.
Here's some actions Israel took to minimize casualties:
" The army also dropped leaflets with similar messages and contact info to report about the whereabouts of militant leaders and weapons caches. [332] The leaflets also noted that "the Israeli army will respond if the rocket fire continues."[330] In war zones, leaflets warned local residents that they had to flee. It also warned residents that their homes would be targeted if they were located in an area of possible target.[333] Dr. Yaniv Levitan of the University of Haifa said that the aim of the flyers was not to demoralize the civil population, but to implant recognition in hearts and minds that Hamas has failed, that there is an option of choosing another path.[331]"
"There was a mistrust of phone calls warning messages to people that they have "just minutes to evacuate before they bomb the house." According to a human rights lawyer at the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR), despite the hundreds of phone calls to families warning their house is about to be blown up, only 37 were destroyed, presumably as of the January 3 date.[330]"
From: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war#Israel[/url]
I hope you're not band-wagoning like the rest of the Anti-Israel's here, but simply asking for the truth.
If you are really curious about the truth just go here:[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict[/url]
Why should you trust some people from a forum?
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;21427615]Also lets just completely ignore that israel is pretty much taking over palestine.[/QUOTE]
Ummmmm, they just pulled out of a heap of settlements, and now they're moving back into the same areas.
Of course there is casualties of civilians, but it doesn't mean the IDF intended to kill them.
P.S. I lived in Israel for 9 years if you're wondering... So yeah, I know the feeling first hand.
I think Israel is well able to supply itself with weapons. They have a well developed arms industry.
Israel makes its own weapons now (The TAR-21 is a great example) and is getting ready to "abandon" the M16 all together
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21427368]Palestinian aren't a religion. What about the 1.1 million Palestinians that are Israeli citizens? That's around 18% of the country.[/quote]
who are treated like shit mind you
[QUOTE] There have also been over 1000 deaths of Israeli civilians by Palestinians over the conflicts.[/QUOTE]
Palestine is FAR larger then the Israeli death toll.
[QUOTE]
Nothing justifies a death, but don't pretend the Palestinians are high and mighty.[/QUOTE]
no one did?
[QUOTE] Pure hatred for Israel. A rational person would be able to look at both sides of the arguments, but you have not once pointed out any flaws in the Palestinian cause.[/QUOTE]
I don't respect regimes that slaughter innocent people.
[QUOTE]
You keep mentioning the wall. And why don't the Palestinians fire rockets into Egypt - after all, they've stuck up another giant wall too?[/QUOTE]
The wall was to prevent munition tunnels.
[quote]So I guess it doesn't have too much to do with it. Not dying that it has no responsibility for Hamas's actions.[/QUOTE]
what?
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;21427615]The fucking UK [b]is stopping their munitions trading with israel[/b] GJ.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you read the article.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21427649]No, I am not denyning that civilians were part of the casulty list, but I am denyning that Israel would fire directly onto civilians.[/QUOTE]
Kay, i was wrong. I'm not ignorant.
But the Israeli military still fired without discretion in many cases, or fired upon hamas facilities with no consideration of civilian infrastructure or civilians.
[editline]04:51PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21427869]I don't think you read the article.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how to read
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21427659]Can you please give sources to the claims Israel fired deliberately at civilians?
Also saying that Hamas just launched rockets blindly doesn't mean they don't target civilians. For 9 years they targeted civilians specifically with their rocket fire from Gaza.
Here's some actions Israel took to minimize casualties:
" The army also dropped leaflets with similar messages and contact info to report about the whereabouts of militant leaders and weapons caches. [332] The leaflets also noted that "the Israeli army will respond if the rocket fire continues."[330] In war zones, leaflets warned local residents that they had to flee. It also warned residents that their homes would be targeted if they were located in an area of possible target.[333] Dr. Yaniv Levitan of the University of Haifa said that the aim of the flyers was not to demoralize the civil population, but to implant recognition in hearts and minds that Hamas has failed, that there is an option of choosing another path.[331]"
"There was a mistrust of phone calls warning messages to people that they have "just minutes to evacuate before they bomb the house." According to a human rights lawyer at the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR), despite the hundreds of phone calls to families warning their house is about to be blown up, only 37 were destroyed, presumably as of the January 3 date.[330]"
From: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war#Israel[/URL]
I hope you're not band-wagoning like the rest of the Anti-Israel's here, but simply asking for the truth.
If you are really curious about the truth just go here:[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict[/URL]
Why should you trust some people from a forum?[/QUOTE]
they called ahead? oh what hero's.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21424101]And this is the reason why Israel needs weapons. As evident by both the wall surrounding the Gaza Strip and the US/Mexico border, illicit good can be smuggled in, such as weapons.
If Israel is not allowed to use internationally bought weapons when fighting threats, what are they going to use? Rocks?[/QUOTE]
Isreal kicked nearly the entire Middle Easts' collective asses by their selves how many times? I seem to remember this 6 day war that Isreal won. I don't think they need weapons from other countries.
You cannot deny that Israel treats all Palestinians like shit, for the actions of some Palestinians.
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21427932]they called ahead? oh what hero's.[/QUOTE]
Sarcasm won't help you win arguments.
fuck israel
Fuck you buddy.
These kinds of threads are always so full of stupidity.
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21427069]That's all I wanted to know. Have you ever been to Gaza?[/QUOTE]
How could he get into Gaza if he lives in Israel? What in all the levels of hell is your point? "First hand experience" is bullshit, even if you went to Israel or Gaza or the West Bank, the image you'll see will be so neutral, your prior bias will not change even in slightest.
Your point is so damn stupid it's mind-boggling.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21426361]Only reason why Hamas is considered terrorist is because they don't have a full proper army. Zionists terrorists were no longer called terrorists once they developed an army.
Though Israel still does sponsor terrorism. [URL]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1524552/Israel-celebrates-Irgun-hotel-bombers.html[/URL][/QUOTE]
Maybe, but there's also the little point of them aiming at civilian targets. Yes, "bu-bu-bu battle rockets", but this is the biggest problem with people arguing over this conflict - reason gets thrown out the window in favor of gut feeling. You have to think with your head alone - they're attacking civilian targets, the only reason they're using bottle rockets or less effective weapons is the lack of better ones. Not to mention Hamas is an Islamic faction, with the aim of an Islamic republic, which is an horrible concept (not just because of the Islam part, it would have been horrible as a Jewish or Christian republic as well.)
I'm not going to defend terrorism, what the Irgun did was bad, pure and simple. Trying to say Israel "sponsors" terrorism through that article is pure stupidity, isn't the Boston tea party technically terrorism? Don't all countries celebrate something that could be horrible? Israel celebrating an event show no "moral decay" or anything like that you may have tried picturing. When the nation of Gaza rises, they'll celebrate these terrorist acts all the same. Nations and countries are being of amorality, their nature is to make people believe in them, much like a religion, and celebration such acts is an easy way of doing this.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21426080]He's has a point though.
People like you turn a convenient blind eye to why Israel gets rockets lobbed at it. The answer is not because they're Jewish.[/QUOTE]
Let's play a game! You're defending terrorism, I'll do that too so you'll see how crazy it is!
"He has a point though.
People like you turn a convenient blind eye to why America gets planes crashed into their skyscrapers. The answer is not because they're American"
Even is their cause is just, and many times it is, Israel has a lot of less than rational policies, you can't possibly defend assaults on citizens.
Now, for this whole "Israeli-Palestinian conflict". The main problem, is that people like you not use their brains, it's a lot of work. They let emotions control their thought, which is causing great stupidity. The Palestinian are a tragic story, and a very sad one, and it's hard thinking about it without trying to ad a villain, this is how tragic stories are built. And while you can find the ones to blame to a lot of their story (be it the western world, the Palestinian leadership, the Arab world or Israel, each to blame for something different), trying to paint a prominent villain and see him as "evil" is plain stupid. Most of you won't say you're picturing Israel as "evil", but you are, in little bits, every time you see a picture of a Palestinian boy, you're looking for someone to blame for the injustice and you find it - Israel. But, think with your heads, use pure, logic, and before you say logic is too "cold" (or "soulless", I heard someone say once), gut feeling and emotions are the thing that cause the likes of homophobia. Israeli citizens are being attacked, not be accident, they are being targeted, people who have no involvement with the conflict but the fact hey were born in Israel. This is not a "who has the saddest story" contest, because the Palestinian win that hands down. But logically, the Hamas leadership is a terrorist group that should never be backed by anyone of sound mind, because they're targeting and attacking innocent lives.
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21427826]1. who are treated like shit mind you
2. Palestine is FAR larger then the Israeli death toll.
3. no one did?
4. I don't respect regimes that slaughter innocent people.
5. The wall was to prevent munition tunnels.
[/QUOTE]
1. Treated like shit is an assumption. As you normally say, provide a source, or it's not true.
2. Numbers shouldn't matter. Any death of an innocent should be considered unacceptable to both sides of the debate. When numbers grow this large however, something new needs to happen.
3. It seems like it from their posts.
4. You should read up on how Hamas took over from Fatah. This involved Hamas assassination high political targets in Fatah. Fatah has also been known to assassinate other members. The most recent example is in Dubai.
5. And it's been working, seeing as how less and less rockets and mortars have been fired.
bubbbbb wall
[editline]05:58PM[/editline]
seriously, doesn't anyone realize the whole Palestine ghetto thing is kinda fucked up?
[editline]05:59PM[/editline]
Fatah was a corrupt and brutal government
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;21427941]Isreal kicked nearly the entire Middle Easts' collective asses by their selves how many times? I seem to remember this 6 day war that Isreal won. I don't think they need weapons from other countries.[/QUOTE]
Cool beans. Not sure what this is meant to mean though. They need the support of other nations though.
[editline]03:03AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21428038]bubbbbb wall[/quote]
...
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21428038]seriously, doesn't anyone realize the whole Palestine ghetto thing is kinda fucked up?[/quote]
Yes, with the limited resources into the Gaza strip, it can be considered a form of Ghetto. But the restrictions would losen if the people of Gaza also loosened.
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21428038]Fatah was a corrupt and brutal government[/QUOTE]
At least we can agree on something.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;21424179]The UK is one of the worlds largest arms exporters.
Some of the biggest Arms companies are British. Go figure.[/QUOTE]
You should probably get that bigot dick out of your ass pretty quickly man.
[img]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5723/weaponsexportation.jpg[/img]
Even France beats you in Arms exportation.
good plan
they HAVE loosened you tool.
If i'm being penned in for no reason, i'm going to be fucking pissed. Christ, you zionist's are fucking braindead. Look at the bigger picture.
[editline]06:04PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mikhail;21428156]You should probably get that bigot dick out of your ass pretty quickly man.
[IMG]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5723/weaponsexportation.jpg[/IMG]
Even France beats you in Arms exportation.[/QUOTE]
he said one of tee hee
Tishler, are you going to comment on old_atlas' post, or are you just going to ignore it?
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21428168]they HAVE loosened you tool.
If i'm being penned in for no reason, i'm going to be fucking pissed. Christ, you zionist's are fucking braindead. Look at the bigger picture.[/QUOTE]
Haha, who have loosened me? I've been to Israel, but take no part in any Zionist community back home. Infact, I avoid them, only because I don't want to hear about Israel this and Israel that. I can't stand that fucking shit.
I want you to explain to me what the "bigger picture" is.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21428195]Tishler, are you going to comment on old_atlas' post, or are you just going to ignore it?[/QUOTE]
it's mostly noise, there's no real point in it.
[editline]06:08PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DogGunn;21428196]Haha, who have loosened me? I've been to Israel, but take no part in any Zionist community back home. Infact, I avoid them, only because I don't want to hear about Israel this and Israel that. I can't stand that fucking shit.
I want you to explain to me what the "bigger picture" is.[/QUOTE]
the whole ghetto thing kinda doesn't help matters.
It has a point, that Israel is basing it's actions on morals and justice, while the Palestinians base their actions on selfish gains.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21428298]It has a point, that Israel is basing it's actions on morals and justice, while the Palestinians base their actions on selfish gains.[/QUOTE]
That's completely true, the Palestinians wanted the Gaza Strip and West Bank and now they want to declare independence.
How about you read the thing and then comment.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21428345]How about you read the thing and then comment.[/QUOTE]
I did, what are you talking about?
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