Lara Croft to be Rape Victim in Upcoming 'Tomb Raider' Video Game - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;36381043]Seriously, can you actually explain why using just the allusion to potential rape is automatically a cheap ploy? Not even showing it, just alluding to it as a potential that never occurs.[/QUOTE] because it's used solely to justify the gameplay consisting of wanton murder, and not an actual moment of internal character development. It's the same as other games which say the word "terrorist" or "nazi" to justify murdering hundreds upon hundreds of people in the most brutal and sadistic ways imaginable. It's cheap, shallow, and generally poor writing. It doesn't reflect upon the character. It's just there so you can kill people guilt-free.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381059]because it's used solely to justify the gameplay consisting of wanton murder, and not an actual moment of internal character development.[/QUOTE]So how could it actually be different. What would make it qualify as "an actual moment of internal character development" then? Especially for someone who has frankly never had much character to begin with.

Tap A to avoid rape?

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;36381096]So how could it actually be different. What would make it qualify as "an actual moment of internal character development" then? Especially for someone who has frankly never had much character to begin with.[/QUOTE] Her disabling and then refusing to murder her would-be rapist and maintaining the moral high-ground. That's hero shit. Not "no, it's okay to kill them, because rape/nazis/terrorists!" And perhaps not immediately going on to maim people in horrible ways. [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive [I]without[/I] killing people. Disabling them? Sure. How about a guilt-meter that fills up every time you take a life, and as it gets fuller and fuller the game gets more and more surreal and unpredictable? How about a game where, every time you kill someone, your character starts having guilt-ridden delusions as your own conscience is working against you, driving you mad? You remember that scene in Snake Eater on the River Styx? Where you have to make it through [I]everyone[/I] you've killed in the game? How that scene is a cakewalk if you didn't kill people unnecessarily but was damn-near impossible if you killed everyone you saw? Do that, through the entire game. This, though? This is just the same only shallow bullshit with rape tacked on. Completely tasteless.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381059]because it's used solely to justify the gameplay consisting of wanton murder, and not an actual moment of internal character development. It's the same as other games which say the word "terrorist" or "nazi" to justify murdering hundreds upon hundreds of people in the most brutal and sadistic ways imaginable. It's cheap, shallow, and generally poor writing. It doesn't reflect upon the character. It's just there so you can kill people guilt-free.[/QUOTE]Its a fucking game, the player is going to be killing everyone else guilt free. The only thing that might make someone guilty is if the game established early on that the people you were killing were all innocent survivors stuck on the island like you. That's the only thing that would make a gamer feel guilty about indiscriminately killing thousands of people. The closest thing would be like the infamous airport attack from Modern Warfare 2 where you just stroll through an airport armed with a light machine gun mowing down civilians. And even then that did little for many gamers. You think they need a brief allusion to potential rape to calm their conscience when they kill the inhabitants of the island? And, the difference between calling someone a "terrorist" or "Nazi" to justify killing them all, is that in those circumstances, there is nothing ever done directly to the player character. Those are only titles given to them, whereas in this, its something that actually is happening to the player character. Its a greater idea than just "They're the enemy, go kill." like an attack dog.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;36381183]Its a fucking game, the player is going to be killing everyone else guilt free.[/QUOTE] Why do you take that as a given? [QUOTE=Lankist;36381105]Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive [I]without[/I] killing people. Disabling them? Sure. How about a guilt-meter that fills up every time you take a life, and as it gets fuller and fuller the game gets more and more surreal and unpredictable? How about a game where, every time you kill someone, your character starts having guilt-ridden delusions as your own conscience is working against you, driving you mad? You remember that scene in Snake Eater on the River Styx? Where you have to make it through [I]everyone[/I] you've killed in the game? How that scene is a cakewalk if you didn't kill people unnecessarily but was damn-near impossible if you killed everyone you saw? Do that, through the entire game. This, though? This is just the same only shallow bullshit with rape tacked on. Completely tasteless.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381105]Her disabling and then refusing to murder her would-be rapist and maintaining the moral high-ground. That's hero shit. Not "no, it's okay to kill them, because rape/nazis/terrorists!"[/QUOTE]You think she would give a fuck about the moral high ground? I'd be interested to know how many rape victims would have cared about the "moral high ground" if they had gotten the chance to stop their attacker. [QUOTE=Lankist;36381105]Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive [I]without[/I] killing people. Disabling them? Sure.[/QUOTE]Because most players don't really care all that much and genuinely don't have any sort of guilt whatsoever, under any circumstances, in regards to their actions. [QUOTE=Lankist;36381105]How about a guilt-meter that fills up every time you take a life, and as it gets fuller and fuller the game gets more and more surreal and unpredictable? How about a game where, every time you kill someone, your character starts having guilt-ridden delusions as your own conscience is working against you, driving you mad? You remember that scene in Snake Eater on the River Styx? Where you have to make it through [I]everyone[/I] you've killed in the game? How that scene is a cakewalk if you didn't kill people unnecessarily but was damn-near impossible if you killed everyone you saw?[/QUOTE] A "guilt meter" would be frustrating to deal with and forced for virtually every one who played the game. Its a nifty idea that would drive most players to boredom and eventually quitting the game or disregarding it completely because they genuinely don't give a shit. The only reason it works for Snake Eater is because that entire series has been filled with contrived and forced scenes like that. Its basically the expectation by that point. Its a scene with a man who has psychic powers, with other enemies like one who can control hornets and another who channels electricity. A trip down a river of dead people is par for the course in the series.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;36381322]You think she would give a fuck about the moral high ground?[/QUOTE] Heroes tend to, yes. You're the one arguing [I]against[/I] realism in terms of not murdering everything within sight, but the moment ethical considerations enter the equation realism is of the highest importance? [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;36381322]A "guilt meter" would be frustrating to deal with and forced for virtually every one who played the game. Its a nifty idea that would drive most players to boredom and eventually quitting the game or disregarding it completely because they genuinely don't give a shit. The only reason it works for Snake Eater is because that entire series has been filled with contrived and forced scenes like that. Its basically the expectation by that point. Its a scene with a man who has psychic powers, with other enemies like one who can control hornets and another who channels electricity. A trip down a river of dead people is par for the course in the series.[/QUOTE] It is a sad state of affairs when you consider anything but wanton murder to be boring. You do remember that one of the biggest complaints about Deus Ex: Human Revolution was that you [I]couldn't[/I] play through the game without killing people? Furthermore: An hour ago you were arguing rape as depth--an unpleasant thing which you feel adds to the depth of the piece. And yet not-murder and moral integrity are neither deep nor interesting? Which is it?

There are barely any complaints against rape scenes in TV and movies, I don't see the difference in the video game.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381059]because it's used solely to justify the gameplay consisting of wanton murder, and not an actual moment of internal character development. It's the same as other games which say the word "terrorist" or "nazi" to justify murdering hundreds upon hundreds of people in the most brutal and sadistic ways imaginable. It's cheap, shallow, and generally poor writing. It doesn't reflect upon the character. It's just there so you can kill people guilt-free.[/QUOTE] It's being used to justify ONE kill, from what I'm hearing. I'm fairly certain the game will give you a reason to attack all those other guys that ISN'T just "they're rapists". Also, didn't I hear that it was possible to play the game without shooting everything in sight? I'll have to find the source for that, though. I could be wrong.

Oh man, rule #34 is going to have a field day with this one. [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36381105]Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive [I]without[/I] killing people. Disabling them? Sure.[/QUOTE] Postal 2 is beatable without killing a single person, and you even get a bonus for doing so. GOOD LUCK :v:

[QUOTE=The golden;36336985]While I agree with what that guy is saying, there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE gap between dudebro shooters and RAPE.[/QUOTE] so? films and books represent it so why not games? you're not even the character committing the rape in this instance so there's no argument for "it's worse because you're [i]ACTUALLY DOING IT[/i]" either (which is a shit argument anyway) [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] wow i'm so late oops

[QUOTE=Simski;36383418]Oh man, rule #34 is going to have a field day with this one.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it seems like the majority of the internet is all up in arms about this, but I'm fairly certain that once the game finally comes out a good chunk of them will revert to their usual selves and plaster rule 34'd versions of the scene in question all over the darkest corners of the web. The internet is full of hypocrites.

[QUOTE=Chekko;36381097]Tap A to avoid rape?[/QUOTE] No she just ends up shooting the guy in the head when they fight for the gun. If not, mission probably failed, try again.

Holy shit I haven't played a Tomb Raider game since that one game on PS2 that bugged out so I couldn't get past one of the early levels without cheating. But a rape scene is just the thing to get me back into the series, I can't wait!

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337017]Rape happens in real life all the time. Why should a game that is supposed to have plot elements that build character's personalities be devoid of those aspects of real life? Why is it that a game can be violent, gory, involve murder, suicide, genocide, racism, drug abuse, prostitution, and the lot, but as soon as rape comes up, WOAH TOO FAR MAN.[/QUOTE] Exactly

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381105]Her disabling and then refusing to murder her would-be rapist and maintaining the moral high-ground. That's hero shit. Not "no, it's okay to kill them, because rape/nazis/terrorists!" And perhaps not immediately going on to maim people in horrible ways. [/QUOTE] I don't understand how you think and it perplexes me to no end. The scene: 1) Lara Croft is caught 2) A skeevy guy is about to kill her 3) Lara Croft kicks him in the balls and a struggle starts 4) both of them struggle for the gun Successful QTE) she gets control of the gun and shoots him. Unsuccessful QTE) he gets control of the gun and shoots her. This seems fairly realistic and empathetic in the fact that she is forced into a situation where it's either her dying or him. But instead you want something that sounds so moral high ground absolute that it is so blatantly unrealistic. It's not about right or wrong it's about survival. And before you go of on "Oh now you want realism" it's quite simple. Realistic reaction vs Realistic scenario. One of these things is more important than the other. You could be watching characters in Middle Earth, Mos Eisley or in a Modern day setting. The scenarios can vary from realistic to fantastical so long as the characters reactions are realistic in accordance with their situation. You don't see Luke, after witnessing the burned remains of his aunt and uncle, enlist in the empire.

[QUOTE=Thlis;36384336]I don't understand how you think and it perplexes me to no end. The scene: 1) Lara Croft is caught 2) A skeevy guy is about to kill her 3) Lara Croft kicks him in the balls and a struggle starts 4) both of them struggle for the gun Successful QTE) she gets control of the gun and shoots him. Unsuccessful QTE) he gets control of the gun and shoots her. This seems fairly realistic and empathetic in the fact that she is forced into a situation where it's either her dying or him. But instead you want something that sounds so moral high ground absolute that it is so blatantly unrealistic. It's not about right or wrong it's about survival. And before you go of on "Oh now you want realism" it's quite simple. Realistic reaction vs Realistic scenario. One of these things is more important than the other. You could be watching characters in Middle Earth, Mos Eisley or in a Modern day setting. The scenarios can vary from realistic to fantastical so long as the characters reactions are realistic in accordance with their situation. You don't see Luke, after witnessing the burned remains of his aunt and uncle, enlist in the empire.[/QUOTE] Wait, are you two arguing about what me and him were arguing about earlier?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381105] How about a guilt-meter that fills up every time you take a life, and as it gets fuller and fuller the game gets more and more surreal and unpredictable? How about a game where, every time you kill someone, your character starts having guilt-ridden delusions as your own conscience is working against you, driving you mad? You remember that scene in Snake Eater on the River Styx? Where you have to make it through [I]everyone[/I] you've killed in the game? How that scene is a cakewalk if you didn't kill people unnecessarily but was damn-near impossible if you killed everyone you saw? Do that, through the entire game.[/QUOTE] Sounds like an awesome game. If it had storywriting on the level of games like [i]Deus Ex: Human Revolution[/i] (and maybe non-lethal takedowns like DE:HR as well :v:), I would totally play this. Like, honestly, that sounds cool. I like the concept of the guilt-ridden hallucinations, and the game becoming less stable as your character effectively loses sanity from killing people. I think that'd be an element that is more or less new to the gaming industry. It'd be like Amnesia's insanity system, only not stupid and actually doing something. I like it.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381105]Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive [I]without[/I] killing people. Disabling them? Sure.[/QUOTE] there are quite a few good games like this, Splinter Cell 1 and Deus Ex come to mind

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381105] Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive [I]without[/I] killing people. Disabling them? Sure. [/QUOTE] Metal Gear, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex, etc.

[QUOTE=Lord_Ragnarok;36379091]Should Quake 4 be banned for the stroggification process then? That was hard to watch too. While rape is much harder to watch in fiction than killing, ethically, killing is worse. Most people joke about how they would rather die than be raped, but people tend to take rape over death, hence rape can be committed at gunpoint. If they got too raw with it, there's no way that I personally would buy it, because I can barely handle Game of Thrones, but I think they are entitled to their freedom of artistic expression, even if it is a fucked up scene.[/QUOTE]Lol why did everybody make a big deal about that strogg part, I thought it was pretty tame when I experienced it myself.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381409] It is a sad state of affairs when you consider anything but wanton murder to be boring. [/QUOTE] Well, you know, they're pixels and polygons with pixel texture sheets and recorded sound clips, they're not real, they're not living, they're fake. Whats next? Complaining about the amount of property damage you cause in Red Faction Guerilla? [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36381105] This, though? This is just the same only shallow bullshit with rape tacked on. Completely tasteless.[/QUOTE] There is no rape in the game, god damn. Like, none, at all, where are you getting this idea?

[QUOTE=AaronM202;36385252]Well, you know, they're pixels and polygons with pixel texture sheets and recorded sound clips, they're not real, they're not living, they're fake. [/QUOTE] yep and humans are just atoms and flesh and blood [editline]1[/editline] books are just paper and ink [editline]2[/editline] rape is just a penis going in a vagina

[QUOTE=Sanius;36385295]yep and humans are just atoms and flesh and blood [editline]1[/editline] books are just paper and ink [editline]2[/editline] rape is just a penis going in a vagina[/QUOTE] The difference is one is real, the other is fake and pre-programmed to do things on a computer screen. Im not even going to comment on the stupidity of the rest of that post.

[QUOTE=Sanius;36385295]yep and humans are just atoms and flesh and blood [editline]1[/editline] books are just paper and ink [editline]2[/editline] rape is just a penis going in a vagina[/QUOTE] did you deliberately skip the obvious emotional REALITY behind those things or you just naturally this ignorant? And for the record, regardless of the value you and I would put into books, when it comes down to the reality of it, they are just paper and ink.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36338224]no-one wants to have sex with a women who's sad because her life's gone to shit, her mother is dead, and at any moment she could die. instead she just kind of flirts with you, not even harboring any resentment towards you or Eli for actually starting this whole thing.[/QUOTE] I am pretty syre Alyx has the most character development of all HL2 characters, so no I disagree

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36385340]did you deliberately skip the obvious emotional REALITY behind those things or you just naturally this ignorant? And for the record, regardless of the value you and I would put into books, when it comes down to the reality of it, they are just paper and ink.[/QUOTE] Read his title.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381105] Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive [I]without[/I] killing people. Disabling them? Sure.[/QUOTE] Well I suppose Hitman could count as that, if you're going for Silent Assassin.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;36385358]Read his title.[/QUOTE] Trust me, I know about Sanius. He called me a paedophile once because I didn't think it was okay to arrest teenagers for having sex.