Lara Croft to be Rape Victim in Upcoming 'Tomb Raider' Video Game - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sanius;36385295]yep and humans are just atoms and flesh and blood [editline]1[/editline] books are just paper and ink [editline]2[/editline] rape is just a penis going in a vagina[/QUOTE] By your logic most gamers are mass murderers.

[QUOTE]Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive without killing people. Disabling them? Sure. [/QUOTE] Batman: Arkham Asylum Batman: Arkham City

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36385391]Trust me, I know about Sanius. He called me a paedophile once because I didn't think it was okay to arrest teenagers for having sex.[/QUOTE] you mean [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1175134&p=35429273&viewfull=1#post35429273]this thread[/url] where I and like 3 other people tried to explain to you that the teenagers were not being punished for just having sex, but for producing and distributing child pornography?

[QUOTE=The Baconator;36385416]Batman: Arkham Asylum Batman: Arkham City[/QUOTE] Any super hero game really, you dont kill people, you just beat the ever-loving SHIT out of people.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381187]Why do you take that as a given?[/QUOTE] Because that's generally how the gamer's mind works. Take me for instance. I think 9/11 is one of the worst tragedies in recent history (if not the worst). But stick me in a video game and I'll crash planes into as many things as I possibly can and only be sad when I run out of planes or things to crash them into. I feel that the deaths of all of those civilians in the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings were unnecessary (and avoidable, especially in Nagasaki's case), but give me a game of Civilization and I'll nuke the everloving shit out of any country that stands in my way. Every gamer I've met (both in my life and on the Internet) has had a similar mindset. When you're in a video game, your actual morals are irrelevant - either it's AI which has no emotions beyond what it's programmed to have, or they'll respawn in a few seconds and act as though nothing's gone wrong. Can morals be present in-game, and still be fun? Absolutely - the original Fallout games (and New Vegas to an extent) did this excellently. But those are your in-game morals, not your actual morals, and can change between playthroughs (or even mid-playthrough), and do not ever actually need to reflect your actual morals.

[QUOTE=Sanius;36385443]you mean [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1175134&p=35429273&viewfull=1#post35429273]this thread[/url] where I and like 3 other people tried to explain to you that the teenagers were not being punished for just having sex, but for producing and distributing child pornography?[/QUOTE] That's great, even after a long amount of time you still are so far from my fucking point that it's inhuman. You are an awful poster.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36385579]That's great, even after a long amount of time you still are so far from my fucking point that it's inhuman. You are an awful poster.[/QUOTE] did sanius' ironic post about rape go over your head or what he was obviously simplifying it to make fun of people who treat forced sexual conduct like its nothing

Okay, I am buying this. Just by reading topic title;PP

[QUOTE=JUOPPO;36386653]Okay, I am buying this. Just by reading topic title;PP[/QUOTE] You're so edgy, I wish I were you.

[QUOTE=The golden;36336961]I know they're doing that for powerful emotional effect but christ the thought of rape makes me want to puke.[/QUOTE] Yeah, except it will probably serve no purpose to anything other than so the developer can say "we had a rape scene in our game." Just like the No Russian level from Modern Warfare 2. Just because you put a rape scene or massacre in your game does not make it instantly well-written and mature.

[QUOTE=Calam1tous;36387110]Yeah, except it will probably serve no purpose to anything other than so the developer can say "we had a rape scene in our game." Just like the No Russian level from Modern Warfare 2. Just because you put a rape scene or massacre in your game does not make it instantly well-written and mature.[/QUOTE] Except rape doesn't happen. If you fail the QTE you just get stabbed.

[QUOTE=Calam1tous;36387110]Yeah, except it will probably serve no purpose to anything other than so the developer can say "we had a rape scene in our game." Just like the No Russian level from Modern Warfare 2. Just because you put a rape scene or massacre in your game does not make it instantly well-written and mature.[/QUOTE] There. Is. No. Rape. Scene. God damn, would you guys actually read for once?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36381105]Her disabling and then refusing to murder her would-be rapist and maintaining the moral high-ground. That's hero shit. Not "no, it's okay to kill them, because rape/nazis/terrorists!" And perhaps not immediately going on to maim people in horrible ways. [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] Shit, I want a game where your goal is to survive [I]without[/I] killing people. Disabling them? Sure. How about a guilt-meter that fills up every time you take a life, and as it gets fuller and fuller the game gets more and more surreal and unpredictable? How about a game where, every time you kill someone, your character starts having guilt-ridden delusions as your own conscience is working against you, driving you mad? You remember that scene in Snake Eater on the River Styx? Where you have to make it through [I]everyone[/I] you've killed in the game? How that scene is a cakewalk if you didn't kill people unnecessarily but was damn-near impossible if you killed everyone you saw? Do that, through the entire game. This, though? This is just the same only shallow bullshit with rape tacked on. Completely tasteless.[/QUOTE] I have to say that as a person who's never played any metal gear games, that river styx scene sounds amazing. At the same time I'm rather apprehensive about the idea of a guilt meter, as it seems contrived in comparison, or at least too similar to amnesia's sanity system. I think it's most interesting when a game rewards or punishes the player depending on who they've killed if the player doesn't know that they're being judged. Remember Castle Clinton in Deus Ex? How if you sneak in through the back entrance the quartermaster would give you some extra loot because you didn't go in guns blazing? I think it was also easier to talk down Zeke in Human Revolution if you didn't kill any of his men (I may be remembering wrong here though). Of course now we know that the Castle Clinton example has little to do with how many people you actually killed, and is instead based on what entrance you took but it's the kind of thing I'm talking about. None of that is really on the scale of the river styx scene but yeah.

When I think of games where you can't or at least don't have to kill every enemy on screen, I tend to think of survival horror games where it's only that way because the enemies literally CAN'T be killed or at the very least there isn't enough ammo to kill them all so you have to play it smart. Still, the idea sounds fun. If the stars aligned in the shape of a game controller and blessed me with a job in the games industry, I'm sure I'd like to make a game like that at least once.

[QUOTE=lavacano;36385483]When you're in a video game, your actual morals are irrelevant[/QUOTE] Then you cannot argue that rape in a game is anything but shallow. [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Xenomoose;36387210]Except rape doesn't happen. If you fail the QTE you just get stabbed.[/QUOTE] Hello my name is subtext nice to meet you. Very rarely is the act of rape shown explicitly on television shows or films, either. The subtext and topic remains within the weave of the story.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36389107]Then you cannot argue that rape in a game is anything but shallow. [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] Hello my name is subtext nice to meet you. Very rarely is the act of rape shown explicitly on television shows or films, either. The subtext and topic remains within the weave of the story.[/QUOTE] How do you know that? All he did was touch her on her side, does that really scream rape to you? Also, explain how its shallow.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;36385252]Well, you know, they're pixels and polygons with pixel texture sheets and recorded sound clips, they're not real, they're not living, they're fake. Whats next? Complaining about the amount of property damage you cause in Red Faction Guerilla?[/QUOTE] Ugh, when are you people going to get this? Just because something is fictional doesn't mean that it's automatically devoid of any meaning or cultural relevance. Think about it for a second. If movies, books and videogames were just made out of pixels and paper and nothing more, then they would've died out shortly after they had been conceived. But they didn't, because those physical elements contained within serve as abstractions for [I]ideas[/I] and [I]events[/I] that people can relate to. Some of those ideas can even influence people's thought processes through subconscious means, and that's potentially dangerous if what they're pushing can act as disparaging or deleterious representations of the things they're trying to emulate from real life. And if you're referring to events in art that are meant to occur casually, then they're still open to critique because they give insight into the creators' thought process via their intuition AKA unfiltered bias. Nothing occurs within a vacuum.

Fuck no I'm not buying this game if there is rape in it. I'm sorry but no I just can't deal with the idea of the character of one of the very first video games I have ever played getting raped, should it be in the actual game or just in her background. Fuck that shit.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;36389665]Fuck no I'm not buying this game if there is rape in it. I'm sorry but no I just can't deal with the idea of the character of one of the very first video games I have ever played getting raped, should it be in the actual game or just in her background. Fuck that shit.[/QUOTE] DUDE. There is NO RAPE. Do you guys not get this? Theres NO RAPE. NONE. Not even a hint of it.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;36389706]DUDE. There is NO RAPE. Do you guys not get this? Theres NO RAPE. NONE. Not even a hint of it.[/QUOTE] Yeah I actually read a bit more of backstory about it, but the issue is still pretty fucking dumb. Essentially they want to make the first human Lara has to kill a rapist, and it's supposed to make us sympathize with her more, which is bullshit. If anything the fact he wants to rape her and not, I dunno, kill her for supplies will just make the kill even more justified and it will break and sort of questioning or tension between the act of murder as it will be pure self-defense thus won't mean shit character wise. Also the whole "if the main character doesn't have boobs the player won't sympathize" is bullshit.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36389107]Hello my name is subtext nice to meet you. Very rarely is the act of rape shown explicitly on television shows or films, either. The subtext and topic remains within the weave of the story.[/QUOTE] The stabbing part completely ruins any subtext, though. If they really wanted to convey a rapey subtext they would have done something different if you failed the QTE, like fade to black and play a soundclip of Lara screaming. You wouldn't know exactly if she was raped or killed, but enough people in the audience would think it was the former for it to be effective subtext.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;36385379]Well I suppose Hitman could count as that, if you're going for Silent Assassin.[/QUOTE] not really, instead of slaughtering innocents you're aiming to kill one person who might actually be a GOOD guy.

[QUOTE=Drsalvador;36390154]not really, instead of slaughtering innocents you're aiming to kill one person who might actually be a GOOD guy.[/QUOTE] Thats true, but theres only been around 3 targets in the series who could be considered innocent or just not a bad guy (swing king, the reporter, and the priest in blood money)

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36390085]The stabbing part completely ruins any subtext, though.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't. That isn't how subtext works.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;36390180]Thats true, but theres only been around 3 targets in the series who could be considered innocent or just not a bad guy (swing king, the reporter, and the priest in blood money)[/QUOTE] and the Blue Lotus/Red Dragon negotiators and the Hong Kong chief of police, and Vinnie Sinistra(who was trying to get a mob leader jailed) there are a LOT of good guys in the hitman series.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36390202]No it doesn't. That isn't how subtext works.[/QUOTE] Still, even with the subtext, an actual, factual rape is not seen, nor is it any more implied than what we've already seen. Guy caresses girl then stabs her if she doesn't QTE in time. That's it, and according to that retraction from the devs mentioned in the News Node that's the worst it's going to get.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36390262]Still, even with the subtext, an actual, factual rape is not seen, nor is it any more implied than what we've already seen. Guy caresses girl then stabs her if she doesn't QTE in time. That's it, and according to that retraction from the devs mentioned in the News Node that's the worst it's going to get.[/QUOTE] And how many films and television shows dealing with rape actually show the rape, rather than simply imply it through subtext? You don't have to show the gruesome details in order to reference a gruesome crime. Media is not literal.

[QUOTE=Drsalvador;36390208]and the Blue Lotus/Red Dragon negotiators and the Hong Kong chief of police, and Vinnie Sinistra(who was trying to get a mob leader jailed) there are a LOT of good guys in the hitman series.[/QUOTE] Vinnie sinistra was a former member of the mob he was going to put in jail, he only struck a deal with the feds when he was caught.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36390268]And how many films and television shows dealing with rape actually show the rape, rather than simply imply it through subtext? You don't have to show the gruesome details in order to reference a gruesome crime. Media is not literal.[/QUOTE] The rape still happens in those shows, right? They might avoid saying it outright, but it's still a fact that in said shows someone got raped? Because no matter what happens in the game, whether you succeed or fail the QTE, Lara doesn't get raped. The only subtext is that the bad guy WANTS to rape her, but he doesn't no matter what you do.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36390453]The rape still happens in those shows, right?[/QUOTE] Never on-screen and extremely rarely ever acknowledged by the characters. The crime is simply implied. For instance: The film Unbreakable implies rape in its penultimate scene, as Bruce Willis' character sees visions of the crimes of everyone he touches. One of the more chilling visions is if an unconscious woman collapsed on a bed and a man telling her how pretty she is before closing a door. Scene ends. Shortly thereafter, the Orange Man is spitting on a beaten woman tied to a radiator, who appears either nonresponsive or dead. Her husband was killed and her children were locked up. Nothing is ever [I]shown[/I], but you know exactly what happened as the viewer. Subtext. Simply because games do not have the ability to cut away from a scene at just the right time during gameplay does not change subtext.