Lara Croft to be Rape Victim in Upcoming 'Tomb Raider' Video Game - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36390085]The stabbing part completely ruins any subtext, though. If they really wanted to convey a rapey subtext they would have done something different if you failed the QTE, like fade to black and play a soundclip of Lara screaming. You wouldn't know exactly if she was raped or killed, but enough people in the audience would think it was the former for it to be effective subtext.[/QUOTE] An example of a movie that had a subtext of rape would be Alien. There's sexual imagery all over that movie. A character is impregnated forcefully with an alien. I believe that alien impales a vast majority of its victims in one way or another. Heck they had H.R. Giger do most of the art design. Something without rape explicitly in it can still exhibit rape themes.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36390474]Never on-screen and extremely rarely ever acknowledged by the characters. The crime is simply implied. For instance: The film Unbreakable implies rape in its penultimate scene, as Bruce Willis' character sees visions of the crimes of everyone he touches. One of the more chilling visions is if an unconscious woman collapsed on a bed and a man telling her how pretty she is before closing a door. Scene ends. Subtext.[/QUOTE] But again, it still happens. Which makes it different from this case because the rape doesn't happen. Not to Lara, anyway. Even if she doesn't fight back she's just killed outright. Unless they imply that she's still barely alive after getting stabbed (which I doubt), there's no real implication of rape. To Lara. That friend of hers who was kidnapped and the other one we see already killed in the Crossroads trailer, that's a whole different story entirely.

Though I suppose if you wanted to you could argue that rape WAS in Alien, albeit not human-on-human rape. Well this is the first time I've been burned on an automerge.

[QUOTE=froztshock;36390540]An example of a movie that had a subtext of rape would be Alien. There's sexual imagery all over that movie. A character is impregnated forcefully with an alien. I believe that alien impales a vast majority of its victims in one way or another. Heck they had H.R. Giger do most of the art design. Something without rape explicitly in it can still exhibit rape themes.[/QUOTE] Okay, now that's made this argument a bit clearer to me.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36390556]But again, it still happens.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't. Nobody so much as says the word "rape" or grope a woman in the entire film.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36390575]No it doesn't. Nobody so much as says the word "rape" or grope a woman in the entire film.[/QUOTE] Okay then, I think I'm beginning to see your point. Although the other guy's Alien analogy helped a bit.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36390611]Okay then, I think I'm beginning to see your point. Although the other guy's Alien analogy helped a bit.[/QUOTE] The issue isn't so much about what happened as it is whether or not the subject matter is being granted the respect it deserves. The problem here is that it's quite blatantly using implied rape as a justification for [I]gameplay[/I], which is flimsy and shallow. It's basically saying "we want you to kill these guys because they tried to rape you," which is manipulative. And this is one of those subjects that it is incredibly unwise and amateurish to manipulate like that. If you'd like another example, watch the Extra Credits episode about Call of Juarez. That game used an extremely tragic, ongoing, real-world conflict between government and cartels in Mexico to justify shooting black people and mexicans with wanton disregard. Even worse, the game woefully misrepresented the conflict and implied that mexicans kidnap American women and sell them as sex slaves in mexico, when the human trafficking practice usually works [I]the other way around.[/I] The whole way that game was handled reeked of xenophobia, racism and disrespect, because they used a sensitive topic as a shallow ploy to justify gameplay. Nobody is saying games can't deal with themes of rape. But it is a subject that deserves more respect than a passing reference as a justification to kill.

Okay, that's a statement I can agree with entirely. Thanks for clearing that up.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36389107]Then you cannot argue that rape in a game is anything but shallow.[/QUOTE] Actually you can. It's easy. It's not shallow. It's a story element that is used. The concept of which is no worse than other things that have actually been in video games before.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36390984]The concept of which is no worse than other things that have actually been in video games before.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lankist;36390642]The issue isn't so much about what happened as it is whether or not the subject matter is being granted the respect it deserves. The problem here is that it's quite blatantly using implied rape as a justification for [I]gameplay[/I], which is flimsy and shallow. It's basically saying "we want you to kill these guys because they tried to rape you," which is manipulative. And this is one of those subjects that it is incredibly unwise and amateurish to manipulate like that. [B]If you'd like another example, watch the Extra Credits episode about Call of Juarez. That game used an extremely tragic, ongoing, real-world conflict between government and cartels in Mexico to justify shooting black people and mexicans with wanton disregard. Even worse, the game woefully misrepresented the conflict and implied that mexicans kidnap American women and sell them as sex slaves in mexico, when the human trafficking practice usually works [I]the other way around.[/I] The whole way that game was handled reeked of xenophobia, racism and disrespect, because they used a sensitive topic as a shallow ploy to justify gameplay.[/B] Nobody is saying games can't deal with themes of rape. But it is a subject that deserves more respect than a passing reference as a justification to kill.[/QUOTE] "No worse" doesn't really work when video games are pretty awful about this sort of thing in general.

Video games can no longer reference things that happen in real life. Also the people who play them have to wear boxing gloves and a giant foam helmet in case their fragile world views are offended by the gripping in game symbolism.

[QUOTE=Motherfuckers;36391173]Video games can no longer reference things that happen in real life. Also the people who play them have to wear boxing gloves and a giant foam helmet in case their fragile world views are offended by the gripping in game symbolism.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lankist;36390642]The issue isn't so much about what happened as it is whether or not the subject matter is being granted the respect it deserves. The problem here is that it's quite blatantly using implied rape as a justification for [I]gameplay[/I], which is flimsy and shallow. It's basically saying "we want you to kill these guys because they tried to rape you," which is manipulative. And this is one of those subjects that it is incredibly unwise and amateurish to manipulate like that. If you'd like another example, watch the Extra Credits episode about Call of Juarez. That game used an extremely tragic, ongoing, real-world conflict between government and cartels in Mexico to justify shooting black people and mexicans with wanton disregard. Even worse, the game woefully misrepresented the conflict and implied that mexicans kidnap American women and sell them as sex slaves in mexico, when the human trafficking practice usually works [I]the other way around.[/I] The whole way that game was handled reeked of xenophobia, racism and disrespect, because they used a sensitive topic as a shallow ploy to justify gameplay. [B]Nobody is saying games can't deal with themes of rape. But it is a subject that deserves more respect than a passing reference as a justification to kill.[/B][/QUOTE]

I am offended by Doom for trivialising my religion into a shallow justification to kill. I'm offended by pacman for misrepresenting eating disorders. I am offended by half life 2 because it misrepresents genocide and uses it as nothing more than a flimsy justification to kill I'm an easily offended dipshit with the mental inability to separate fiction from reality.

[QUOTE=Motherfuckers;36391297]I am offended by Doom for trivialising my religion into a shallow justification to kill. I'm offended by pacman for misrepresenting eating disorders. I am offended by half life 2 because it misrepresents genocide and uses it as nothing more than a flimsy justification to kill I'm an easily offended dipshit with the mental inability to separate fiction from reality.[/QUOTE] hey idk if you knew but media has an adverse effect on the way people think and act

[QUOTE=Motherfuckers;36391297]I am offended by Doom for trivialising my religion into a shallow justification to kill. I'm offended by pacman for misrepresenting eating disorders. I am offended by half life 2 because it misrepresents genocide and uses it as nothing more than a flimsy justification to kill I'm an easily offended dipshit with the mental inability to separate fiction from reality.[/QUOTE] Nobody said those games were intellectual or mature.

its story is about as deep as a pothole puddle

Why is there even an argument about it? Video games need to advance. Only people who say its about feminism are more ignorant about what feminism is

[QUOTE=Lankist;36391332]Nobody said those games were intellectual or mature.[/QUOTE] Name one 'intellectual' or 'mature' game.

[QUOTE=Motherfuckers;36391432]Name one 'intellectual' or 'mature' game.[/QUOTE] Portal. Almost all problems solved through non-violent means. The (two) combat sequences are purely defensive. The humor is cerebral, and the game doesn't engage in cheaply profane humor. Gameplay is cerebral and requires consideration rather than blind violence. The game provides a sense of intellectual accomplishment after completing a puzzle rather than a juvenile accomplishment for maiming lots of things. Quite a few strategy games also fit that, but Portal is the most relevant example.

culdcept

Amnesia. Actually scary and psychologically disturbing without playing to juvenile tropes. The game doesn't forgive brashness and recklessness, let alone encourage it.

I am going to be okay with masturbating to this.

Also I would put Deus Ex up there if Human Revolution didn't force you into dumb Rambo boss-fights. The game does actively encourage nonviolence, however, and does not forgive you for running around murdering.

[QUOTE=SilverDragon619;36391504]I am going to be okay with masturbating to this.[/QUOTE] literally nobody cares what you masturbate to

[QUOTE=Lankist;36391446]Portal. Almost all problems solved through non-violent means. The (two) combat sequences are purely defensive. The humor is cerebral, and the game doesn't engage in cheaply profane humor. Gameplay is cerebral and requires consideration rather than blind violence. The game provides a sense of intellectual accomplishment after completing a puzzle rather than a juvenile accomplishment for maiming lots of things. Quite a few strategy games also fit that, but Portal is the most relevant example.[/QUOTE] I like this choice since there is a lot I can pretend to be offended about. For instance the original portal once makes reference to the fact that the portal device is "now worth more than the combined organs and salaries of the entirety of [subject home town here]" Well it just so happens I live in Mexico and am not only dirt poor but there is a thriving illegal organs trade here, way to fucking trivialise a constant threat too my safety and make fun of my economic situation, shitty game, uninstalling now. I rebuke your claim that portal is 'intellectual' or mature when it is making fun of the poor and if you count portal 2, orphans as well.

[QUOTE=Motherfuckers;36391534]I like this choice since there is a lot I can pretend to be offended about. For instance the original portal once makes reference to the fact that the portal device is "now worth more than the combined organs and salaries of the entirety of [subject home town here]" Well it just so happens I live in Mexico and am not only dirt poor but there is a thriving illegal organs trade here, way to fucking trivialise a constant threat too my safety and make fun of my economic situation, shitty game, uninstalling now. I rebuke your claim that portal is 'intellectual' or mature when it is making fun of the poor and if you count portal 2, orphans as well.[/QUOTE] You're seriously comparing that to rape. hey please re-read this example of an actually derisive game toward mexico and mexicans [QUOTE=Lankist;36390642]The issue isn't so much about what happened as it is whether or not the subject matter is being granted the respect it deserves. The problem here is that it's quite blatantly using implied rape as a justification for [I]gameplay[/I], which is flimsy and shallow. It's basically saying "we want you to kill these guys because they tried to rape you," which is manipulative. And this is one of those subjects that it is incredibly unwise and amateurish to manipulate like that. [B]If you'd like another example, watch the Extra Credits episode about Call of Juarez. That game used an extremely tragic, ongoing, real-world conflict between government and cartels in Mexico to justify shooting black people and mexicans with wanton disregard. Even worse, the game woefully misrepresented the conflict and implied that mexicans kidnap American women and sell them as sex slaves in mexico, when the human trafficking practice usually works [I]the other way around.[/I] The whole way that game was handled reeked of xenophobia, racism and disrespect, because they used a sensitive topic as a shallow ploy to justify gameplay.[/B] Nobody is saying games can't deal with themes of rape. But it is a subject that deserves more respect than a passing reference as a justification to kill.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lankist;36391555]You're seriously comparing that to rape. hey please re-read this example of an actually derisive game toward mexico and mexicans[/QUOTE] Way to dodge the issue with a completely tangential sidestep, I'm saying portal is a shitty game based on a passing comment about my wealth and organs, while it may seem pointless to you I am DEEPLY OFFENDED by that statement. Which makes portal a shitty game for kids. PLEASE tell me you're getting this, I'm being DEEPLY OFFENDED by what would seem to be NOT A BIG DEAL in a work of FICTION

[QUOTE=Motherfuckers;36391576]Way to dodge the issue with a completely tangential sidestep, I'm saying portal is a shitty game based on a passing comment about my wealth and organs, while it may seem pointless to you I am DEEPLY OFFENDED by that statement. Which makes portal a shitty game for kids. PLEASE tell me you're getting this, I'm being DEEPLY OFFENDED by what would seem to be NOT A BIG DEAL[/QUOTE] Nobody cares if you're offended. Derision is the issue, not offense. You people need to understand that this issue is not as simple as "i am offended." [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] also why on earth would you let your kids play portal [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] it's a game about being toyed with by a homicidal maniac

[QUOTE=Lankist;36391600]Nobody cares if you're offended. Derision is the issue, not offense.[/QUOTE] YES DERISION IS THE ISSUE, I feel completely derided by that passing statement because I happen to be in a small minority of people who would probably be upset by it. How about I just spell it out for you so you can't actually argue since you're terrible at it, what I am saying is that the game didn't DELIBERATELY deride people who are poor and afraid of having their organs stolen, it was a joke, RAPE in tomb raider isn't a deliberate attack of rape victims, it's a plot device. Besides the only reason this is a big deal is because new media is evil, TV, books and many other mediums have approached the issue of rape in worse and more callous ways, but nobody gives a shit about them. [editline]19th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sanius;36391315]hey idk if you knew but media has an adverse effect on the way people think and act[/QUOTE] Nice argument, Let's ban all media than since it is affecting our fragile little minds. I mean I dunno about you but after watching game of thrones all I want to do is fuck my sister.

Why should we care? They show little kids being brutally murdered in some of the silent hill games, and has anyone complained? NOPE Some monsters and enviroments even symbolize rape, and has anyone complained? NOPE