Lara Croft to be Rape Victim in Upcoming 'Tomb Raider' Video Game - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Bentham;36337522]But even from what you're saying it's not the developers themselves blowing this up, it's the viewers and internet users. I don't see articles everywhere quoting devs doing all these interviews showing off their shiny rape scene. It's not even a real rape scene, from the video, it looks like a dude tries to rub her side and she kicks him in the dick. It's not a big deal, it's not going to revolutionize storytelling in video games, and a year after release nobody is going to remember or care.[/QUOTE] just because i'm posting about it doesn't mean i think it's a big deal. it's just some of the responses (especially the bold direction one) are kind of mind-bogglingly funny and worth putting in some words about.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337514]Regardless, how does that make her point any more relevant? I'm not arguing that rape isn't bad. Yes, I know that rape victims enter depression, sometimes commit suicide, trust issues, and the lot, but what I'm saying is that people who have survived other tragedies are going to be suicidal, be paranoid, have trust issues, and sometimes even mental breakdowns.[/QUOTE] not my place to argue that. i pointed out what i took issue with.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337542]just because i'm posting about it doesn't mean i think it's a big deal. it's just some of the responses (especially the bold direction one) are kind of mind-bogglingly funny and worth putting in some words about.[/QUOTE] I mean, it's pretty edgy I suppose, but I won't be freaking out until someone makes a game where the guy literally tries to hardcore rape her. This doesn't seem too terribly alarming, and people on both sides of the fence really are overreacting.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337524]do you know anything about tomb raider? the old [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Tomb_Raider_-_Underworld.png[/img] the new [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/New_Lara_Croft.jpg[/img] they got rid of the short shorts and gave her pants.[/QUOTE] Yes, I have seen her in previous games.My point was why the hell should that matter to you? Bottom line is it is [I]hardly[/I] rape.

[QUOTE=Derpmonster;36337553]Yes, I have seen her in previous games.My point was why the hell should that matter to you? Bottom line is it is [I]hardly[/I] rape.[/QUOTE] you are taking this shit way too seriously

Guys rape in video games != murder, and using PTSD stories about people in war is not a good way to try and make that illegitimate point. Murder, especially in the sense that it's portrayed in most video games is almost comical - but rape isn't and never will be unless you're pretty sick. The trauma that results from murder is the result of having to end the life of another human being, whereas no matter how good a video game is a murder will never impact you that much because under everything you know that they're not a real person. Rape is horrifying regardless though because it's not just the knowledge of what's been done that's horrifying, but the actual process. A murder can be as simple as pulling a trigger and looking away, or punching someone hard to the neck - rape on the other hand is a deeply traumatic form of torture and there's no way you can make it a tame action. So before you try and act like murder and rape in video games are both in the same bucket because they can both cause trauma in real life, fucking think about it

[QUOTE=Revan564;36337536]What you said about the strong effect of death and murder was shown in that video with the kid and his parents.[/QUOTE] even if does give you an emotional response, it's nowhere close to an actual death or murder and there's a huge reason because of that. a realistic death is different from a graphic death, graphic meaning something [b]visually[/b] presented. you'd experience something different if the game was about you coming to terms with the death itself, since that would be a realistic depiction of death. when you kill people in call of duty you aren't forced or even capable of dealing with that death because even if it is graphic it's completely unrealistic. that's why i say there's a false equivalency with murder and rape depicted in a video-game. a videogame about killing is 99% certain not to deal with the themes and emotions surrounding death in a realistic way because it handles it in an unrealistic way, and since it handles it in an unrealistic way there's no possible emotional impact beyond the response to the graphic depiction. with rape however it is easy to take the themes and emotions surrounding it and completely handle it in a horrible hamfisted way that makes everyone go YEESH or UGH!. not related to this game but then again the golden wasn't addressing the game, he was addressing someone's post.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337571]Guys rape in video games != murder, and using PTSD stories about people in war is not a good way to try and make that illegitimate point. Murder, especially in the sense that it's portrayed in most video games is almost comical - but rape isn't and never will be unless you're pretty sick. The trauma that results from murder is the result of having to end the life of another human being, whereas no matter how good a video game is a murder will never impact you that much because under everything you know that they're not a real person. Rape is horrifying regardless though because it's not just the knowledge of what's been done that's horrifying, but the actual process. A murder can be as simple as pulling a trigger and looking away, or punching someone hard to the neck - rape on the other hand is a deeply traumatic form of torture and there's no way you can make it a tame action. So before you try and act like murder and rape in video games are both in the same bucket because they can both cause trauma in real life, fucking think about it[/QUOTE] This seems really self-conflicting. You're arguing that murder in video games isn't severe because we know they aren't real, can't you apply the same stance to rape in games? Not that I'm justifying anything, it just seems really self-defeating to apply that kind of logic. And there's plenty of games where murder is drawn out and detailed.

[QUOTE=Derpmonster;36337553]Yes, I have seen her in previous games.My point was why the hell should that matter to you?[/QUOTE] because i thought she looked awesome in short shorts. it's an era of my childhood gone to waste.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337571]Guys rape in video games != murder, and using PTSD stories about people in war is not a good way to try and make that illegitimate point. Murder, especially in the sense that it's portrayed in most video games is almost comical - but rape isn't and never will be unless you're pretty sick. The trauma that results from murder is the result of having to end the life of another human being, whereas no matter how good a video game is a murder will never impact you that much because under everything you know that they're not a real person. Rape is horrifying regardless though because it's not just the knowledge of what's been done that's horrifying, but the actual process. A murder can be as simple as pulling a trigger and looking away, or punching someone hard to the neck - rape on the other hand is a deeply traumatic form of torture and there's no way you can make it a tame action. So before you try and act like murder and rape in video games are both in the same bucket because they can both cause trauma in real life, fucking think about it[/QUOTE] I fail to see how this is totally alright to put in a game, but slight fondling isn't. [media] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYEZEu5wxPU&feature=related[/url] [/media] [b]Yeah that's really funny alright![/b] Why is that in a game, if you have rape, the player immediately thinks of the process of rape, but with murder, they don't think of the process of murder? No, seriously, the only reason you even say that murder is comical is because you've seen it so often in games that you're desensitized. You hardly see rape in games, so of course you're not used to it. That's why games like Manhunt and GTAV don't affect people. Not because the content in them isn't bad, rather, because we've seen all that content millions of times.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337588]because i thought she looked awesome in short shorts. it's an era of my childhood gone to waste.[/QUOTE] Sorry, but I fail to understand what that has to do with your whole argument. I do see your point on why it matters to you though. I just don't understand it.

[QUOTE=The golden;36336961]I know they're doing that for powerful emotional effect but christ the thought of rape makes me want to puke.[/QUOTE] As opposed to the thought of shooting people in the face with guns? You realize how violent most of the games we play are, right? At least here the violence serves some purpose (it actually makes you sick of violence) instead of rewarding you with points.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337602][media] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYEZEu5wxPU&feature=related[/url] [/media] Yeah that's really funny alright! Why is that in a game, if you have rape, the player immediately thinks of the process of rape, but with murder, they don't think of the process of murder? No, seriously, the only reason you even say that murder is comical is because you've seen it so often in games that you're desensitized. You hardly see rape in games, so of course you're not used to it. That's why games like Manhunt and GTAV don't affect people. Not because the content in them isn't bad, rather, because we've seen all that content millions of times.[/QUOTE] That scene stressed me out so fucking much.

[QUOTE=Bentham;36337586]This seems really self-conflicting. You're arguing that murder in video games isn't severe because we know they aren't real, can't you apply the same stance to rape in games?[/QUOTE] no because the emotional information in order to get across a rape with it's proper emotional response is different. what makes you feel bad about someone dying is the fact that it's a long-time process dealing with the fact that they are gone. a rape however registers emotionally quickly because it's a forcible sexual victimization of a woman or man and therefor the potential for a game to handle it in a way that makes everyone feel like shit is huge, see Custer's Revenge.

[QUOTE=Bentham;36337586]This seems really self-conflicting. [b]You're arguing that murder in video games isn't severe because we know they aren't real, can't you apply the same stance to rape in games?[/b] Not that I'm justifying anything, it just seems really self-defeating to apply that kind of logic. And there's plenty of games where murder is drawn out and detailed.[/QUOTE] No you can't, and I explained why in my post. To make it simpler - murder is disturbing because of the actual effects of the murder (as is rape), but visually witnessing the act of rape itself is disturbing whether the people are real or not. Murder doesn't even have to even involve violence, it can be as simple as someone dropping dead from drinking poison. To argue that somebody ragdolling after getting a red mark on their chest is in the same category as a woman being forced down and fucked against their will is scary to say the least.

I think we're being very liberal with the term 'rape'. He puts his hand on her waist for christs sake.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337578]even if does give you an emotional response, it's nowhere close to an actual death or murder and there's a huge reason because of that. a realistic death is different from a graphic death, graphic meaning something [b]visually[/b] presented. you'd experience something different if the game was about you coming to terms with the death itself, since that would be a realistic depiction of death. when you kill people in call of duty you aren't forced or even capable of dealing with that death because even if it is graphic it's completely unrealistic. that's why i say there's a false equivalency with murder and rape depicted in a video-game. a videogame about killing is 99% certain not to deal with the themes and emotions surrounding death in a realistic way because it handles it in an unrealistic way, and since it handles it in an unrealistic way there's no possible emotional impact beyond the response to the graphic depiction. with rape however it is easy to take the themes and emotions surrounding it and completely handle it in a horrible hamfisted way that makes everyone go YEESH or UGH!. not related to this game but then again the golden wasn't addressing the game, he was addressing someone's post.[/QUOTE] I was just replying to you're post about murder in games being unrealistic. Also, no game should ever be able to impact you emotionally as much as real life would. One is simulated and the other is real.

[QUOTE=Derpmonster;36337607]Sorry, but I fail to understand what that has to do with your whole argument.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(literary_device)[/url]

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337602]That's why games like Manhunt and GTAV don't affect people.[/QUOTE] Manhunt originally affected people. That's because it was older and murder was something fresh (To that extent anyway) . Now (like you said) people are so used to murder in video games it barely phases them.

On an unrelated note I guess 2012 is the year of bows in media. Tomb raider, assassin's creed, crysis3, hunger games, avengers, etc...

[QUOTE=Revan564;36337628]Also, no game should ever be able to impact you emotionally as much as real life would. One is simulated and the other is real.[/QUOTE] not true at all and it's that belief that prevents games from establishing a proper emotional connection. when i read of mice and men i really felt like lennie died, and that's because the emotional information that comes across in the book really allow it to happen. some ugly dirty nerds also cried when Aries died so no i would say a game could impact you that emotionally.

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;36337626]I think we're being very liberal with the term 'rape'. He puts his hand on her waist for christs sake.[/QUOTE] he doesn't even do anything if you fail, he just stabs her and she dies

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337620]No you can't, and I explained why in my post. To make it simpler - murder is disturbing because of the actual effects of the murder (as is rape), but visually witnessing the act of rape itself is disturbing whether the people are real or not. Murder doesn't even have to even involve violence, it can be as simple as someone dropping dead from drinking poison. To argue that somebody ragdolling after getting a red mark on their chest is in the same category as a woman being forced down and fucked against their will is scary to say the least.[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing for situations like Counter-Strike or whatever where you click a button and the guy flops onto the ground. The video posted above is an example of what I was talking about. Murder that actually creates a situation where you have to think about what you are doing and react to the fact that there's a man crying in front of you because he doesn't want to die, and you have the power to pull the trigger or spare him.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337602][b]Yeah that's really funny alright![/b] Why is that in a game, if you have rape, the player immediately thinks of the process of rape, but with murder, they don't think of the process of murder? No, seriously, the only reason you even say that murder is comical is because you've seen it so often in games that you're desensitized. You hardly see rape in games, so of course you're not used to it. That's why games like Manhunt and GTAV don't affect people. Not because the content in them isn't bad, rather, because we've seen all that content millions of times.[/QUOTE] This here's a prime example folks of someone who doesn't understand anything trying to force a moral high ground by taking things out of context! I said in [b]most[/b] games, as you were keen to ignore, while completely dodging the point of my post. No, it's not because I've been desensitized, it's because the visual effect of someone impossibly rolling up into a ball after being shot in the foot and then leaping back up in another corner of a town has a slapstick comedy feel to it, not because I'm a cold blooded killer who doesn't care. If you don't understand my point - read my next post again, I made it simpler.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337620]No you can't, and I explained why in my post. To make it simpler - murder is disturbing because of the actual effects of the murder (as is rape), but visually witnessing the act of rape itself is disturbing whether the people are real or not. Murder doesn't even have to even involve violence, it can be as simple as someone dropping dead from drinking poison. To argue that somebody ragdolling after getting a red mark on their chest is in the same category as a woman being forced down and fucked against their will is scary to say the least.[/QUOTE] If you're going to say it like that then rape in video games is just a character ragdolling while another ragdoll moves its pelvis in and out of the other. If you're going to argue that murder isn't disturbing just because of the "quality" then you are disturbed. I don't see how watching a man get shot in the head is any better than watching a woman get felt up.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337602] Why is that in a game, if you have rape, the player immediately thinks of the process of rape, but with murder, they don't think of the process of murder? [/QUOTE] because games don't always deal realistically with murder? [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Loriborn;36337653]I don't see how watching a man get shot in the head is any better than watching a woman get felt up.[/QUOTE] are we still talking about games?

[QUOTE=The golden;36337038]Because rape is (arguably) up there in terms of being the ultimate form of physical and mental torture. It can physically and mentally destroy someone for the rest of their life. A person who is dead no longer feels anything. A rape victim is haunted for the rest of their life.[/QUOTE] What? I am sorry, rape IS a horrible thing and it shouldn't happen at all, but if somebody gave me a choice between getting bones broken/twisted/beat shit out of me and rape, then I would probably choose the later, and you can argue that's just me, but I think that's true for most people. There's rape for years in almost all kinds of art, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be in a game.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337660]because games don't always deal realistically with murder?[/QUOTE] So then the solution is that if every game for the next decade involves rape as a normal gameplay element to the point that it is considered "not realistic", then it's no longer a bad thing to have in games, right? That's exactly what happened to games with killing. People like you all said the DOOM was a god awful game and that it's traumatic to have a game that involves so much death and murder. Nearly two decades later, DOOM is pretty clean by today's standards.

[QUOTE=znk666;36336932][B] “She is literally turned into a cornered animal. It’s a huge step in her evolution: she’s forced to either fight back or die.”[/B][/QUOTE] Isn't this every Tomb Raider game ever?

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337571]Guys rape in video games != murder, and using PTSD stories about people in war is not a good way to try and make that illegitimate point. Murder, especially in the sense that it's portrayed in most video games is almost comical - but rape isn't and never will be unless you're pretty sick. The trauma that results from murder is the result of having to end the life of another human being, whereas no matter how good a video game is a murder will never impact you that much because under everything you know that they're not a real person. Rape is horrifying regardless though because it's not just the knowledge of what's been done that's horrifying, but the actual process. A murder can be as simple as pulling a trigger and looking away, or punching someone hard to the neck - rape on the other hand is a deeply traumatic form of torture and there's no way you can make it a tame action. So before you try and act like murder and rape in video games are both in the same bucket because they can both cause trauma in real life, fucking think about it[/QUOTE] I really don't think that murder is ever as 'simple as the pull of a trigger'. Even if you get shot in the head, it's probably still not 'quick' or 'clean' by any means. It's just been sanitized because if we portrayed violence and death the way it occurs in real life, you wouldn't want to play violent video games. There was an Overgrowth dev video where they showed the death animation for characters. In any other game, you hit something and it ragdollizes. Occasionally with a grunt. But in the Overgrowth video, a character might start spurting blood, grab its neck and fall to the ground, then writhe around and frantically grasp for breath with every ounce of strength it had left. It's funny how a game about [i]anthropomorphic rabbits[/i] can make my stomach churn with such a simple little detail. So violence is never pretty, death is never clean, and to ever suggest that violence of 'type X' is more/less horrifying than violence of 'type Y' is absurd.