Lara Croft to be Rape Victim in Upcoming 'Tomb Raider' Video Game - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337680]So then the solution is that if every game for the next decade involves rape as a normal gameplay element to the point that it is considered "not realistic", then it's no longer a bad thing to have in games, right?[/QUOTE] why do you want rape normalized in games? you're really doing my head in mate. [QUOTE=Loriborn;36337680]That's exactly what happened to games with killing. People like you all said the DOOM was a god awful game and that it's traumatic to have a game that involves so much death and murder. Nearly two decades later, DOOM is pretty clean by today's standards.[/QUOTE] Doom is clean by today's standards because it's so hilariously unrealistic. you might be too young but nobody was affected by Doom even when it came out because of how unrealistic it was. sure it was the most graphic thing we saw at that point, but like i've laid out before how graphic something is doesn't have anything to do with how powerful murder would be emotionally. i'm affected by a murder in a book if it's presented in a realistic way.

[QUOTE=ROBO_DONUT;36337687]I really don't think that murder is ever as 'simple as the pull of a trigger'. Even if you get shot in the head, it's probably still not 'quick' or 'clean' by any means. It's just been sanitized because if we portrayed violence and death the way it occurs in real life, you wouldn't want to play violent video games. There was an Overgrowth dev video where they showed the death animation for characters. In any other game, you hit something and it ragdollizes. Occasionally with a grunt. But in the Overgrowth video, a character might start spurting blood, grab its neck and fall to the ground, then writhe around and frantically grasp for breath with every ounce of strength it had left. It's funny how a game about [i]anthropomorphic rabbits[/i] can make my stomach churn with such a simple little detail. So violence is never pretty, death is never clean, and to ever suggest that violence of 'type X' is more/less horrifying than violence of 'type Y' is absurd.[/QUOTE] It's funny, they argue that death is okay in games just because it isn't "good quality". Would you all say the same things about death that you say about rape if the death scenes in all games were like that one in Heavy Rain?

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337660]are we still talking about games?[/QUOTE] I hope so, if not this guy is freaking majorly creepy (not like I haven't seen creepier posts on FP though) [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;36337677]What? I am sorry, rape IS a horrible thing and it shouldn't happen at all, but if somebody gave me a choice between getting bones broken/twisted/beat shit out of me and rape, then I would probably choose the later, and you can argue that's just me, but I think that's true for most people. There's rape for years in almost all kinds of art, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be in a game.[/QUOTE] You're comparing torture to rape instead of murder to rape, which is especially odd considering rape can involve all of the other things you've mentioned.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337696]why do you want rape normalized in games? you're really doing my head in mate. Doom is clean by today's standards because it's so hilariously unrealistic. you might be too young but nobody was affected by Doom even when it came out because of how unrealistic it was. sure it was the most graphic thing we saw at that point, but like i've laid out before how graphic something is doesn't have anything to do with how powerful murder would be emotionally. i'm affected by a murder in a book if it's presented in a realistic way.[/QUOTE] No one was affected by DOOM, just like no one is affected by the rape in this video or in any other media type, right? So there goes that argument. Also, while we're at it, the whole concept of "normalizing rape" was sarcasm pointed at how killing people is okay now in games because it's become normalized.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337700] You're comparing torture to rape instead of murder to rape, which is especially odd considering rape can involve all of the other things you've mentioned.[/QUOTE] He was the one who compared torture to rape. I am sorry I don't fit in into the narrow field of discussion, but the point of a quote of reading what the person is referring to.

This is all for publicity There is also no rape, just the typical bad guy fondling of victims, which never actually turns into a rape

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337711]No one was affected by DOOM, just like no one is affected by the rape in this video or in any other media type, right? So there goes that argument.[/QUOTE] huh? [QUOTE=Loriborn;36337711]Also, while we're at it, the whole concept of "normalizing rape" was sarcasm pointed at how killing people is okay now in games because it's become normalized.[/QUOTE] killing people in games was always okay, because it's completely unrealistic and disassociated from any emotional response. if you made a game that dealt with murder in a realistic way, only people with a disposition to not care about murder (mental illness involving emotions) wouldn't be emotionally affected by it. however with rape in a videogame while the ability for it to be graphic might not be that much, the ability for it to realistic deal with why rape is horrible is incredibly easy because it could easily portray loss of control, victimization, and intense emotional abuse within a matter of seconds. you can't do that in a videogame because the emotional response to murder isn't something done easily and quickly. so that's why if you portray rape in a videogame the potential for it to go absolute batshit stupid and insane is quick and therefor rape in videogames is different from murder in videogames. the golden wasn't even talking about this video, he was responding to your post.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337699]It's funny, they argue that death is okay in games just because it isn't "good quality". Would you all say the same things about death that you say about rape if the death scenes in all games were like that one in Heavy Rain?[/QUOTE] This doesn't even make any sense, not only are you bringing your pretentiousness to a maximum by furthering your blatant misunderstanding of the argument, but you're incorrectly trying to apply one type of murder to EVERY kind of murder. Do you honestly think that a scene from a drama is a good way to represent every murder in a video game? Do you honestly think that a murder is disturbing because they're "good quality" (your wording not mine thanks)? Not every murder is a heart-wrenching scene from a drama or a violent bleedout with a terrified victim screaming and clutching the spewing torrent of blood.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337746]This doesn't even make any sense, not only are you bringing your pretentiousness to a maximum by furthering your blatant misunderstanding of the argument, but you're incorrectly trying to apply one type of murder to EVERY kind of murder. Do you honestly think that a scene from a drama is a good way to represent every murder in a video game? Do you honestly think that a murder is disturbing because they're "good quality" (your wording not mine thanks)? Not every murder is a heart-wrenching scene from a drama or a violent bleedout with a terrified victim screaming and clutching the spewing torrent of blood.[/QUOTE] I don't mean to put words in his mouth but I think he's more arguing that people don't think that a graphic and emotionally jarring murder in a video game is equally as achievable as a rape in a video game. In both situations nobody is actually physically suffering, but in either case, the situation can be made real enough to warrant a serious emotional response.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337746]This doesn't even make any sense, not only are you bringing your pretentiousness to a maximum by furthering your blatant misunderstanding of the argument, but you're incorrectly trying to apply one type of murder to EVERY kind of murder. Do you honestly think that a scene from a drama is a good way to represent every murder in a video game? Do you honestly think that a murder is disturbing because they're "good quality" (your wording not mine thanks)? Not every murder is a heart-wrenching scene from a drama or a violent bleedout with a terrified victim screaming and clutching the spewing torrent of blood.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile you have no idea how exactly will the rape scene in the game look in the end while you are judging it in advance. That doesn't seem exactly smooth, either.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337743]huh? killing people in games was always okay, because it's completely unrealistic and disassociated from any emotional response. if you made a game that dealt with murder in a realistic way, only people with a disposition to not care about murder (mental illness involving emotions) wouldn't be emotionally affected by it. however with rape in a videogame while the ability for it to be graphic might not be that much, the ability for it to realistic deal with why rape is horrible is incredibly easy because it could easily portray loss of control, victimization, and intense emotional abuse within a matter of seconds. you can't do that in a videogame because the emotional response to murder isn't something done easily and quickly. so that's why if you portray rape in a videogame the potential for it to go absolute batshit stupid and insane is quick and therefor rape in videogames is different from murder in videogames. the golden wasn't even talking about this video, he was responding to your post.[/QUOTE] Have we seen any examples of rape in games done realistically in the way you describe "proper murder"? But in terms of movies, there are tons of movies that have rape, why are those okay, but it's not okay for them to be in video games?

this whole game looks like it was written and designed by Ryu-gi

[QUOTE=Bentham;36337769]I don't mean to put words in his mouth but I think he's more arguing that people don't think that a graphic and emotionally jarring murder in a video game is equally as achievable as a rape in a video game. In both situations nobody is actually physically suffering, but in either case, the situation can be made real enough to warrant a serious emotional response.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337746]This doesn't even make any sense, not only are you bringing your pretentiousness to a maximum by furthering your blatant misunderstanding of the argument, but you're incorrectly trying to apply one type of murder to EVERY kind of murder. Do you honestly think that a scene from a drama is a good way to represent every murder in a video game? Do you honestly think that a murder is disturbing because they're "good quality" (your wording not mine thanks)? Not every murder is a heart-wrenching scene from a drama or a violent bleedout with a terrified victim screaming and clutching the spewing torrent of blood.[/QUOTE] I want to know what kind of fantasy land you live in.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;36337773]Meanwhile you have no idea how exactly will the rape scene in the game look in the end while you are judging it in advance. That doesn't seem exactly smooth, either.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Darrell Gallagher (Studio Head)]In this particular selection, while there is a threatening undertone in the sequence and surrounding drama, it never goes any further than the scenes that we have already shown publicly. Sexual assault of any kind is categorically not a theme that we cover in this game.[/QUOTE]

Is it the '70s again or something?

[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;36337796]Is it the '70s again or something?[/QUOTE] what makes you say that?

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36337774]But in terms of movies, there are tons of movies that have rape, why are those okay, but it's not okay for them to be in video games?[/QUOTE] you know if you're gonna argue with someone, you should at least read their posts. specifically the one where i say i'm fine with rape in video games, as long as they are handled in a way that isn't terrible IE Custer's Revenge.

[QUOTE=The Baconator;36337806]what makes you say that?[/QUOTE] Because just about every movie in the '70s had rape in it.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337746]Not every murder is a heart-wrenching scene from a drama or a violent bleedout with a terrified victim screaming and clutching the spewing torrent of blood.[/QUOTE] This, specifically, is what bothers me. You know when you watch the news and they say "a local man sustained a gun shot wound and is in critical condition"? Yeah, that person isn't dead. They're on a table in some hospital, dying, [i]slowly[/i]. The fact is people don't just get hit with a bullet and 'shut down' right away. They spend minutes or even hours in agony before they die. But even if it was instant/painless, would that make it any less tragic? I don't think the loss of a life is anything to scoff at.

I don't think that most of the uproar against this has come because of the fact that an attempted rape is included in a game. Most sensible people will realise that there are nastier or equally nasty things in games that we all play all the time. The uproar has come mainly from the developer comments about it saying that they're using rape as a way of developing a female character and making her appear more vulnerable. That's the bit that's not cool.

[QUOTE=Bentham;36337769]I don't mean to put words in his mouth but I think he's more arguing that people don't think that a graphic and emotionally jarring murder in a video game is equally as achievable as a rape in a video game. In both situations nobody is actually physically suffering, but in either case, the situation can be made real enough to warrant a serious emotional response.[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing that murder CAN'T be traumatic and horrifying - just that it doesn't have to be, whereas it's hard not to make rape traumatic without making it a pile of ragdolls flapping at each other. A death doesn't have to be a dramatic scene out of heavy rain, it CAN (please note nazis, I'm well aware even a clean shot to the head doesn't ALWAYS turn out this way) be as simple as a clean shot during an action scene that kills someone immediately - and that's typically the kind of deaths that are portrayed in games. A rape can't be handled like that, the nature of the action requires it to be drawn out which in anything even vaguely realistic is going to be traumatic. I'd like to point out too that I'm not trying to say rape can't be in video games, just that trying to compare it to murder and saying it's the same thing because "both can be traumatic" is borderline insanity

[QUOTE=Lhuth;36337856] The uproar has come mainly from the developer comments about it saying that they're using rape as a way of developing a female character and making her appear more vulnerable. That's the bit that's not cool.[/QUOTE] i just want lara to have short shorts again [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ROBO_DONUT;36337837] But even if it was instant/painless, would that make it any less tragic? I don't think the loss of a life is anything to scoff at.[/QUOTE] i'm starting to sound like a broken record here: are we still talking about games?

I don't think thisispain knows what he's arguing.

Rape controversy aside, it seems really weird to make Lara Croft (one of the most sexualised characters in gaming) into a victim of sexual abuse. It almost seems like a meta narrative of the developers trying to shake the whole sexist image of their games.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36337874]I don't think thisispain knows what he's arguing.[/QUOTE] thisispain knows just fine what thisispain's arguing about, if Governor Goblin is having problems understanding thisispain's arguments thisispain will be more than happy to help Governor Goblin understand.

[QUOTE=Elspin;36337858]I'm not arguing that murder CAN'T be traumatic and horrifying - just that it doesn't have to be, whereas it's hard not to make rape traumatic without making it a pile of ragdolls flapping at each other. A death doesn't have to be a dramatic scene out of heavy rain, it CAN (please note nazis, I'm well aware even a clean shot to the head doesn't ALWAYS turn out this way) be as simple as a clean shot during an action scene that kills someone immediately - and that's typically the kind of deaths that are portrayed in games. A rape can't be handled like that, the nature of the action requires it to be drawn out which in anything even vaguely realistic is going to be traumatic. I'd like to point out too that I'm not trying to say rape can't be in video games, just that trying to compare it to murder and saying it's the same thing because "both can be traumatic" is borderline insanity[/QUOTE] This is a good point, I see what you're getting at.

[QUOTE=ROBO_DONUT;36337837]This, specifically, is what bothers me. You know when you watch the news and they say "a local man sustained a gun shot wound and is in critical condition"? Yeah, that person isn't dead. They're on a table in some hospital, dying, [i]slowly[/i]. The fact is people don't just get hit with a bullet and 'shut down' right away. They spend minutes or even hours in agony before they die. But even if it was instant/painless, would that make it any less tragic? I don't think the loss of a life is anything to scoff at.[/QUOTE] Are you even trying to hide your attempt at trying to take a non-existent moral high ground anymore? I never at any point said the loss of a life isn't tragic, just that it's possible to portray the loss of a life in a video game that is in no way traumatic, no it's not exactly realistic for every final shot to immediately end someone's life, but it's not so cheap that it's taken people out of amazing games like half life 2 is it? Whereas there just isn't a way to do the same with rape, it will always be traumatic if done even slightly realistically.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36337862]i'm starting to sound like a broken record here: are we still talking about games?[/QUOTE] Media in general, as a reflection of our priorities as a society. [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Elspin;36337908]Are you even trying to hide your attempt at trying to take a non-existent moral high ground anymore? I never at any point said the loss of a life isn't tragic, just that it's possible to portray the loss of a life in a video game that is in no way traumatic, no it's not exactly realistic for every final shot to immediately end someone's life, but it's not so cheap that it's taken people out of amazing games like half life 2 is it? Whereas there just isn't a way to do the same with rape, it will always be traumatic if done even slightly realistically.[/QUOTE] Santitization is the [i]absolute worst[/i] way you can handle violent subject matter. People need to see exactly how disgusting murder is so that they don't vote for warmongering politicians.

How in fuck would you rape her? You would have to be one hell of a badass.