Sony attempts to lure audiophiles with 'Premium Sound' microSD - Polidicks

I think singling out iPhones and iPods here is a bad point of comparison. Apple takes pride in providing the best audio experience possible across all of their devices, the audio hardware in the iPhones is literally top-of-the-market right now. Very few other manufacturers come close to their level. It makes sense. When your main source of revenue is online music sales, you want people to enjoy listening to that on your hardware. Investing in the ecosystem and all. Looking back at the larger conversation here, I have a statement: There are differences in audio hardware. The field is not homogenous. You can get better quality sound out of quality components than you can out of cheaper (in build quality, in engineering quality, in overall product quality and capability) components. Saying that that's somehow not true because having better audio quality is a myth is a flat-out lie. Yes, most of the time the hardware in your phones and tablets is acceptable. Sometimes it's acoustically perfect, or very, very close. If it does the job for you, that's really all that matters. But you can't call higher quality, dedicated hardware a waste because of that. That's not to say that just because something is more expensive, it's better. The majority of the high-end audio market is built around this, selling decades-old designs to people who know nothing about the field to make a killing. Sony's doing more or less that here. But saying that somehow implies that using any dedicated hardware is worthless is just disingenuous, and really marginalizes the efforts of every audio technician that's done something to further the field over the past century. If we had this collective opinion sixty years ago, we'd all be perfectly content with Victrolas and 78's today. But we weren't, and in a lot of ways we're still not content with what we have now, and that's a good thing. Perfect acoustic reproduction is a noble goal, even if it's not attainable with what we have now. All that said, spending more than $100 for a DAC or an amp is probably overkill. There is a point where you stop paying for sound and start paying for build quality, though, when you can measure the lifespan of your equipment in decades.

honestly most 'premium' android phones use the same or very closely related DACs. some phones may not implement them as well, but many do pretty much just as well [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] i'm just going to say this out right, almost all of the time integrated sound chips on motherboards that aren't cutting corners to be the cheapest are going to be effectively perfect. ABX test between that + amp and an external ampdac combo with the same technical specifications will result in basically the same thing. these expensive combo options are for a bit more than driving headphones or getting better sound fidelity than an integrated motherboard chip generally. anyone with their DT660s and m50x headphones generally won't [I]need[/I] an external DAC at all unless they have particularly bad integrated audio and or need an amp (in which case you can still use the onboard audio just fine) [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] there is only so much a major component manufacturer can really get [I]wrong[/I] with a DAC/ADC in 2015. good, accurate audio DAC ICs are not very expensive to produce and implement

[QUOTE=.Lain;47197757]honestly most 'premium' android phones use the same or very closely related DACs. some phones may not implement them as well, but many do pretty much just as well [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] i'm just going to say this out right, almost all of the time integrated sound chips on motherboards that aren't cutting corners to be the cheapest are going to be effectively perfect. ABX test between that + amp and an external ampdac combo with the same technical specifications will result in basically the same thing. these expensive combo options are for a [B]bit more than driving headphones[/B] or getting better sound fidelity than an integrated motherboard chip generally. anyone with their DT660s and m50x headphones generally won't [I]need[/I] an external DAC at all unless they have particularly bad integrated audio and or need an amp (in which case you can still use the onboard audio just fine) [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] there is only so much a major component manufacturer can really get [I]wrong[/I] with a DAC/ADC in 2015. good, accurate audio DAC ICs are not very expensive to produce and implement[/QUOTE] I was under the understanding that we were talking audio systems with speakers. Headphones makes more sense. You're entirely right there.

[QUOTE=robodick;47196848]At first I thought that you just found a comedy image of a nutter with some swimming floats on his head. Theres no point paying for HQ sound. in 5 years, it will be standard on any smart phone.[/QUOTE] alright just switch to integrated graphics too then. the fact is that the only real upgrades to modern headphones (ie small speakers) is weight (and comfort, but that's not the important part and it isn't relevant to this discussion). my favorite pair of sub-$100 headphones, the KOSS Pro-4AA has remained unchanged since 1970. Amps reached their peak in the mid 80s and dacs have been perfect for ages. the problem is that a good amp and good speakers cost a lot more and take up a lot more room than a bad amp and bad speakers.

[QUOTE=Waffle cones.;47199381]Whoever buys one of those is :downs:. You don't need to rewind DVD's in the first place.[/QUOTE] Nice try but I won't believe you.

[QUOTE=Waffle cones.;47199381]Whoever buys one of those is :downs:. You don't need to rewind DVD's in the first place.[/QUOTE] good catch

Also if anyone wants a good laugh about people with more money than sense, check out some of the topics at [url]http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=127&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1[/url] Just browsing around I found a link to this site [url]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/blackdiscus/[/url] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/cache/cd750e7477817cfeb0b1abb49ea79273_f69.jpg[/IMG] [quote]BlackDiscus is a new type of device designed to enhance the quality of your audio system, from headphones to high-end. When they are attached to strategic points, BlackDiscus improves the clarity of the sound, enhances the stereo image, makes sibiliants purer, and lowers the noise floor.[/quote] Check out these goofy fuckers: [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/5013/8404/1928/bdheadamp-s.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/6013/8422/4214/amptermbds.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/cache/fcbe7d1123ed0ad10ed44e3b82ee0911_f76.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=No_Excuses;47201112]Also if anyone wants a good laugh about people with more money than sense, check out some of the topics at [url]http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=127&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1[/url] Just browsing around I found a link to this site [url]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/blackdiscus/[/url] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/cache/cd750e7477817cfeb0b1abb49ea79273_f69.jpg[/IMG] Check out these goofy fuckers: [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/5013/8404/1928/bdheadamp-s.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/6013/8422/4214/amptermbds.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/cache/fcbe7d1123ed0ad10ed44e3b82ee0911_f76.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] That is literally a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.

[QUOTE=woolio1;47201280]That is literally a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.[/QUOTE] too bad it's not edible!

[QUOTE=No_Excuses;47201112][URL]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/blackdiscus/[/URL] Check out these goofy fuckers: ..[/QUOTE] [quote=website]we will send you a free sample, yours to keep [/quote] we should get the free samples. they probably work, right?

[QUOTE=No_Excuses;47201112]Also if anyone wants a good laugh about people with more money than sense, check out some of the topics at [url]http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=127&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1[/url] Just browsing around I found a link to this site [url]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/blackdiscus/[/url] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/cache/cd750e7477817cfeb0b1abb49ea79273_f69.jpg[/IMG] Check out these goofy fuckers: [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/5013/8404/1928/bdheadamp-s.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/6013/8422/4214/amptermbds.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/cache/fcbe7d1123ed0ad10ed44e3b82ee0911_f76.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] look up ferrite beads, they're used to suppress high frequency electronic noise. if these are what I think they are then they actually do make a legitimate difference. so much of a difference that even your wired video game controllers come with them

[QUOTE=hydrated;47201987]look up ferrite beads, they're used to suppress high frequency electronic noise. if these are what I think they are then they actually do make a legitimate difference. so much of a difference that even your wired video game controllers come with them[/QUOTE] Where in the spectrum would you find "high frequency electronic noise"?

[QUOTE=hydrated;47201987]look up ferrite beads, they're used to suppress high frequency electronic noise. if these are what I think they are then they actually do make a legitimate difference. so much of a difference that even your wired video game controllers come with them[/QUOTE] Ferrite cable cores are around $5, those unshielded peanut butter cups are $20-50 each.

Yeah... If you want ferrite cores, just buy ferrite cores. That said, ferrite cores do help block a lot of cross-cable interference, which is a real problem if you're running cables next to each other for any significant distance.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;47202430]Where in the spectrum would you find "high frequency electronic noise"?[/QUOTE] depends on the source but generally about 80 KHz and higher. it's generated by lighting ballasts, printers, televisions, etc. I know that's outside of normal hearing range but noise creates greater opportunity for crosstalk, is likely to create harmonics within normal hearing range, and depending on your setup may create additional audible noise.

An explanation of this from Reddit: [quote] Actually, while you may not be able to hear it, read-out of flash causes noise on the 3.3v line, which in portable music players is also used in many cases to bias analog audio circuitry. While manufacturers try like crazy to isolate the digital section from the analog section, current mode coupling still happens where traces for the analog section run in the same direction as power for the digital section. Providing for decreased current noise at the flash memory COULD indeed decrease overall system noise slightly, in theory and in practice. BUT The decrease would likely be smaller in the average audio player than noise from other sources. It is unlikely that you'd even get a 1 decibel reduction in noise, which is really pathetic when you consider that in a decent product, noise will be well below -60dBu. 1 decibel improvement to -61 dBu would be about 70 millionths of a volt improvement. Not enough to care about. And most good audio players are going to be MUCH better than -60 dBu of noise. Probably closer to -68 dBu for a very high quality player. For recording, it actually may be significant, since your mic preamp is going to have 30 to 40 dB of gain, from a preamp biased by that same 3.3v line. It could actually make an audible difference in recordings. How can you tell? Well, build a dummy mic rig, record silence (since there isn't actually a microphone) and gain up the silence on playback. If you hear brief chirps in the noise floor, this product will likely attenuate those chirps. How could they attenuate noise? Well, include a thin capacitor, something like 10 nanofarads, and an integrated ferrite bead or coil between the card connector and the capacitor. This way, current noise from the card pulls from the capacitor, and a more continuous DC current flows into the card, with all transaction current noise being absorbed by the capacitor's bulk storage. This would help to keep the noise off of the 3.3v line. Source: 20 years of experience in electronics engineering and pro audio for a US based professional audio company as the test engineer, service technician, and test technician for 4 entire lines of professional automixers, DANTE digital audio interfaces, and wireless microphones [/quote] Of course it's still on the same order of magnitude as snake oil

[QUOTE=hydrated;47201987]look up ferrite beads, they're used to suppress high frequency electronic noise. if these are what I think they are then they actually do make a legitimate difference. so much of a difference that even your wired video game controllers come with them[/QUOTE] Ferrite beads are useful for >1MHz at the absolute minimum (think RF). The highest audio frequencies are a fiftieth of that value. They also wouldn't be in anything like that position if you wanted them to do anything useful. You want the ferrite to enclose the cable to provide the low reluctance path for the magnetic flux, and for lower frequencies you'll want the cable to wrap through the ferrite several times for higher MMF. [editline]25th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=No_Excuses;47201112]Also if anyone wants a good laugh about people with more money than sense, check out some of the topics at [URL]http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=127&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1[/URL] Just browsing around I found a link to this site [URL]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/blackdiscus/[/URL] [IMG]http://www.madscientist-audio.com/files/cache/cd750e7477817cfeb0b1abb49ea79273_f69.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] That site is a troll site, scroll down: [quote=MadScientistAudio]How do they work? Due to commercial considerations we are not able to explain how BlackDiscus devices work. However we can say that BlackDiscus performance is achieved by combining a number of novel techniques. But here are a few possible explanations for now: The Doctor Explanation : BlackDiscus use a simplified form of the technology employed by the time lords which we call "Relative Dimension in Space" RDIS, which means that they are considerably bigger inside than out. Not only bigger, but heavier as well, as they are filled with lead. This means that they make excellent mass-dampers, even though they only weigh a few grams. [B]Also note that the lead has been pushed back in time/to another dimension, so this means that BlackDiscus are fully RoHS compliant.[/B] The Inevitable Quantum Explanation : Your brain is like, a quantum computer. And BlackDiscus is like extra RAM (quRAM) for these quantum computers. Using non-linear optics, the BlackDiscus produce a stream of entangled photons that vibrate in time to the music. Because of this, your brain perceives the sound as much improved. The StarFleet Explanation : The positronic audio coupling excites the trans-warp particle matrix so that a phased system stream combines to give a rapid superficial harmonic, which gives the effect of good musical vibes. The Electromagnetic Damping Explanation : CanOpeners capture unwanted resonances in the electromagnetic fields that pervade us all in modern life, and turn them to heat. This reduces the noise floor and brings out subtle details. The Alien Technology Explanation : While I was walking my dog one night, I came across a UFO that had broken down. I helped the aliens "change their space tire" and before they left, they asked what they could do...I said that if they knew any cool ways to make my sound better..and the result is BlackDiscus The Nanotechnology Explanation : They work because they contain a huge number of autonomous "nanites". These disperse and change the characteristics of the air between the speakers and your ear. When not in use they return to the BlackDiscus . The Dark Matter Explanation : The "black stuff" on BlackDiscus contains Dark Matter, the elusive substance that astronomers and cosmologists have been searching for. Well we located a stash in an old farmhouse near Ruitakia in New Zealand, and the magical properties of Dark matter mean that the soundstage is widened and details are more prominent. The Black Magic Explanation : Due to contractual obligations, I cannot reveal the full details. Suffice to say that I found a gentleman who was willing to purchase what he termed "my soul" in return for various goodies, one of which is this astonishing technology. So take advantage of my foolishness - you can improve your stereo for a much smaller price than your soul. Suggest a plausible or funny explanation and win a set of BlackDiscus Devices.[/quote] lol

Do you still get the free samples though?