• Germany 'can take 500,000 asylum seekers a year'
    148 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48645430]If the NDP and/or Liberals take this stance they're fucked. Conservatives would win a landslide if they did. I might even support them.[/QUOTE] To be honest, as much as I fucking despise Harper, I may have to support the Cons too if the NDP and Liberals take that stance. It's honestly shaping up to be a deciding factor on who I vote for. I agree that we should take some in, but we shouldn't just open the flood gates.
[QUOTE=RockmanYoshi;48644188]We don't really know much about these people. One refugee could be Abdul the hydraulic engineer, the other could be Sayyid the bomb maker.[/QUOTE] It's hard to believe a good chunk, let alone a majority, of these people are educated or terrorists. Odds are the vast majority of these refugees are uneducated, unskilled workers which, even were not, will probably have cultural and language barriers preventing Abdul the hydraulic engineer from getting an engineering job anyway. Not to mention, a degree in hydraulic engineering in Syria may not be as good as it is in Germany or elsewhere - if he even manged to bring proof of such a degree along with him as he fled his bombed out home.
[QUOTE=Jordax;48645436]That's what that picture is pointing out. Saudi Arabia flatout refuses to take in refugees while they easily could take in those refugees and could take care of them better than most European countries can. It would also not cause a massive culture clash as what's happening now in Europa. Instead, people start whining when Eastern European countries are not willing to take refugees/immigrants in while Saudi Arabia doesn't get any flak from politicans for doing the same while they are objectively better suited to house refugees with those facilities. It is pretty damn hypocritical of them.[/QUOTE] The post is pinting out "well the tents are there why are the refugees not coming?" [quote]Every tent has airco, warm showers, shops, decent hygiene and more and yet they all travel to Europe.[/quote] Stupid
Perfect way to fight off the dropping population
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48646947]It's hard to believe a good chunk, let alone a majority, of these people are educated or terrorists. Odds are the vast majority of these refugees are uneducated, unskilled workers which, even were not, will probably have cultural and language barriers preventing Abdul the hydraulic engineer from getting an engineering job anyway. Not to mention, a degree in hydraulic engineering in Syria may not be as good as it is in Germany or elsewhere - if he even manged to bring proof of such a degree along with him as he fled his bombed out home.[/QUOTE] I don't pretend to know a lot about the market in Syria, but I would imagine that a majority of the professions Syrians occupy themselves with are analogous with occupations in Europe as Syria is(was?) a pretty developed society. Not all sheep farmers. The education verification and language barrier are issues that can be overcome with an investment that ought to be comparatively tiny when weighed against the benefit of having Abdul the hydraulic engineer as a tax-paying part of the workforce for the rest of his live. We don't have systems in place at the moment to implement this effectively at the moment though, which means Abdul will either be baking kebabs or doing nothing useful. If this crisis doesn't end up in riots and ruin it might yet help us to design systems that can prevent that, and lead to an overall improvement.
My parents are telling me the craze is exactly like in the 70s when hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese people came to Germany.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48647627]My parents are telling me the craze is exactly like in the 70s when hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese people came to Germany.[/QUOTE] Where did they get those numbers ? Wikipedia says around 120 000 of them live there now (and they started coming 40 years ago). Also Wikipedia mentions how Germany didn't manage to make them leave the country, even though many came just for work (guest workers), lol. And now we are talking about 800 000 in a year.
Why don't we just accept all the people who clearly need a lot of help, then when the war is over, force them to go back to Syria? We give them a safe place to live with their family, education, and maybe even a few of them will become citizens on their host countries, but most of them will be shipped back whether they like it or not. [editline]10th September 2015[/editline] Also, before someone asks, I would deem the use of force as okay to achieve this goal. I'm not sure if i'm presenting a hugely racist argument and not realising it because i spend too much time on /pol/, or if it's actually viable.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;48647744]Why don't we just accept all the people who clearly need a lot of help, then when the war is over, force them to go back to Syria? We give them a safe place to live with their family, education, and maybe even a few of them will become citizens on their host countries, but most of them will be shipped back whether they like it or not. [editline]10th September 2015[/editline] Also, before someone asks, I would deem the use of force as okay to achieve this goal. I'm not sure if i'm presenting a hugely racist argument and not realising it because i spend too much time on /pol/, or if it's actually viable.[/QUOTE] Forcing is inhumane and not nice. Even if you deem it okay, PC does not and that's the end of it. Once you adopted a puppy you gotta take care of it.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;48647615]I don't pretend to know a lot about the market in Syria, but I would imagine that a majority of the professions Syrians occupy themselves with are analogous with occupations in Europe as Syria is(was?) a pretty developed society. Not all sheep farmers. The education verification and language barrier are issues that can be overcome with an investment that ought to be comparatively tiny when weighed against the benefit of having Abdul the hydraulic engineer as a tax-paying part of the workforce for the rest of his live. We don't have systems in place at the moment to implement this effectively at the moment though, which means Abdul will either be baking kebabs or doing nothing useful. If this crisis doesn't end up in riots and ruin it might yet help us to design systems that can prevent that, and lead to an overall improvement.[/QUOTE] I didn't say everyone was a sheep farmer, nor meant to imply "unskillled = dirt poor/extremely impoverished". I mean unskilled as in, fast food workers, low level factory employees, taxi drivers - the kind of people that are every 10 in the population for every 1 guy with a college degree. These guys, especially with a language barrier, are going to to have a very hard time finding work. Sure, you could "invest" in fixing that language barrier - but holy christ the logistics of having thousands and thousands of Arabic to German teachers effectively teach a million people every two years is mind blowingly naive to think possible, let alone extremely well.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;48647615]I don't pretend to know a lot about the market in Syria, but I would imagine that a majority of the professions Syrians occupy themselves with are analogous with occupations in Europe as Syria is(was?) a pretty developed society. The and education verification and language barrier are issues that can be overcome with an investment that ought to be comparatively tiny when weighed against the benefit of having Abdul the hydraulic engineer as a tax-paying part of the workforce for the rest of his live. We don't have systems in place at the moment to implement this effectively at the moment though, which means Abdul will either be baking kebabs or doing nothing useful. If this crisis doesn't end up in riots and ruin it might yet help us to design systems that can prevent that, and lead to an overall improvement.[/QUOTE] On that note: [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/08/20/why-some-german-universities-will-educate-refugees-for-free/"]Quite a few German universities are waiving fees asylum applicants would normally have to pay to start studying and it seems the laws were changed in some places to make that easier[/URL][URL="https://archive.is/qVpzl"].[/URL] There are a lot of English-language courses available here, so for those speaking that the language barrier should be less of an issue. The state is probably mostly going to provide language training in this regard, and I assume they'll increase the integration support in schools.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;48647744]Why don't we just accept all the people who clearly need a lot of help, then when the war is over, force them to go back to Syria? We give them a safe place to live with their family, education, and maybe even a few of them will become citizens on their host countries, but most of them will be shipped back whether they like it or not. [editline]10th September 2015[/editline] Also, before someone asks, I would deem the use of force as okay to achieve this goal. I'm not sure if i'm presenting a hugely racist argument and not realising it because i spend too much time on /pol/, or if it's actually viable.[/QUOTE] Why would they leave Germany, Austria or Sweden, the richest countries in the world, who gave them home, possibly a job and many opportunities, and go back to a place where they have nothing ? A place surrounded by countries that all want to destroy each other how it seems ? A place that probably wont have the means to rebuilt it self, because of lack of money and people ? They a re staying here. If 15% of them go back, that would be a huge number. Also this is a precedent, EU wont be able to close their borders to anyone ever again. I read Venezuela has problems, they should just come to Europe.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48647812]Forcing is inhumane and not nice. Even if you deem it okay, PC does not and that's the end of it. Once you adopted a puppy you gotta take care of it.[/QUOTE] That's what i'm saying. Don't adopt the puppy. Keep the puppy for two years and then send it back to Guide Dogs Australia or whatever to go be helpful. Use refugees as a tool to fix the horribly broken country. Send them back to help. Again, i'm aware forcing people isn't exactly nice, but fuck them. We're spending a shitload on these people without any realistic expectations of a decent return. That's a bad investment. If we turn it around and use these refugees to deal with the problems causing them to flee in the first place, then we have a good one. Most go home, some stay and become productive citizens. Those who go home make sure that more people don't flee to Europe. [editline]10th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=AntonioR;48647869]Why would they leave Germany, Austria or Sweden, the richest countries in the world, who gave them home, possibly a job and many opportunities, and go back to a place where they have nothing ? A place surrounded by countries that all want to destroy each other how it seems ? A place that probably wont have the means to rebuilt it self, because of lack of money and people ? They a re staying here. If 15% of them go back, that would be a huge number. Also this is a precedent, EU wont be able to close their borders to anyone ever again. I read Venezuela has problems, they should just come to Europe.[/QUOTE] Again the idea is to not really give them a choice. Have them sign a legally binding contract outlining their situation, and have an interpreter explain it to them. Send back the ones who refuse Let's be honest here, Europe is taking a half measure. No more half measures.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;48647884]Again, i'm aware forcing people isn't exactly nice, but fuck them. We're spending a shitload on these people without any realistic expectations of a decent return. That's a bad investment. If we turn it around and use these refugees to deal with the problems causing them to flee in the first place, then we have a good one. Most go home, some stay and become productive citizens. Those who go home make sure that more people don't flee to Europe.[/QUOTE] You know what they could do; mobilize them, train them for 3-6 months, arm them and then send them to fight of ISIS from their homeland, with logistical and intelligence support of EU.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;48647869]Why would they leave Germany, Austria or Sweden, the richest countries in the world, who gave them home, possibly a job and many opportunities, and go back to a place where they have nothing ? A place surrounded by countries that all want to destroy each other how it seems ? A place that probably wont have the means to rebuilt it self, because of lack of money and people ? They a re staying here. If 15% of them go back, that would be a huge number. Also this is a precedent, EU wont be able to close their borders to anyone ever again. I read Venezuela has problems, they should just come to Europe.[/QUOTE] Well, if the war ends then technically they aren't refugees anymore by the definition that compels us to protect them. Aside from the (pretty significant) moral issue of coercion I could imagine it feasible to return those without compelling reasons to stay such as jobs, sickness or threats to their safety in their country of origin.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;48647884]Again the idea is to not really give them a choice. Have them sign a legally binding contract outlining their situation, and have an interpreter explain it to them. Send back the ones who refuse Let's be honest here, Europe is taking a half measure. No more half measures.[/QUOTE] If you read my post above, you'll see they already had this problem with Vietnamese workers who didn't want to leave. They came on a 5 year contract.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;48647914]You know what they could do; mobilize them, train them for 3-6 months, arm them and then send them to fight of ISIS from their homeland, with logistical and intelligence support of EU.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm sure that will work well with all the women, children, elderly and disabled. These people fled a warzone for a reason - to [I]not[/I] have to risk their lives in a fight.
Obviously applies to other countries too, especially in mainland europe. [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34202767/ShareX/2015/09/2015-09-09_22-20-26.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=AntonioR;48647914]You know what they could do; mobilize them, train them for 3-6 months, arm them and then send them to fight of ISIS from their homeland, with logistical and intelligence support of EU.[/QUOTE] The pen is mightier than the sword. Educate these people. Adding more guns and military into the mix wont help. It might also be wise to give up on attempting intergration. With such massive numbers of refugees it will likely be impossible to intergrate everyone. Instead of fighting the inevitable grouping of the refugees, embrace it, and use it to your advantage. Plus, less intergrated refugees will be more willing to return to their own countries.
Man I feel bad for the refugees but I doubt Europe can hold the strain if we keep going like this. Please God this doesn't end like it did in France.
[QUOTE=orcywoo6;48647948]Obviously applies to other countries too, especially in mainland europe. [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34202767/ShareX/2015/09/2015-09-09_22-20-26.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Holy shit, that's London? I thought that's Stalingrad during war or something. What happened? Sorry I was never interested in studying history.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;48647921]If you read my post above, you'll see they already had this problem with Vietnamese workers who didn't want to leave. They came on a 5 year contract.[/QUOTE] Its a little different with the vietnamese. Since im pretty sure that as South Vietnamese (No north vietnamese would be allowed to leave in the 70s during the end of the vietnam conflict ), they realised coming back would mean a totalitarian regime and "reeducation" camps.
These people wont integrate. Its really terrible what has happened but this isn't going to end well for the rest of europe.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;48647983]Holy shit, that's London? I thought that's Stalingrad during war or something. What happened? Sorry I was never interested in studying history.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz[/url] Youtube documentary with extra explosions: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0v2Uq8z7aI[/url]
[QUOTE=arleitiss;48647983]Holy shit, that's London? I thought that's Stalingrad during war or something. What happened? Sorry I was never interested in studying history.[/QUOTE] Lots and lots and lots of bomber raids.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;48647980]Man I feel bad for the refugees but I doubt Europe can hold the strain if we keep going like this. Please God this doesn't end like it did in France.[/QUOTE] My biggest fear is that things slowly start to go all to shit and everything bends over to fit the refugees in one way or another, then stuff going the way of France, and eventually turning into a battlefield.
I joked earlier but I honestly see this turning into race wars somewhere down the line. It has been predicted that Europe would undergo a form of racial conflict in the future but I didn't think it would be this soon.
[QUOTE=Advisor;48645152]I just heard how Saudi Arabia refuses to take in any refugees for some shit madeup reason, but they offered to build 200 mosques in germany. This whole "refuge" crisis is such a fucking joke, mainly beacuse most of these are no refugees. 70% of them being young males, bitch please. I saw videos of the kind of shit they do in Greece, i don`t want them anywhere near my country, call me a racist if you want. Only women and children should be helped and the ones that really need help, not the ones that refuse it and throw water given to them on train tracks.[/QUOTE] You do realize that the reason the majority of them are 70% males is the same reason immigrants coming over to the US in the early 1900s were 70% males as well right? They hope to go to Europe, make some money, and send that money back so their families can come over as well. [editline]9th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=kweh;48648026]My biggest fear is that things slowly start to go all to shit and everything bends over to fit the refugees in one way or another, then stuff going the way of France, and eventually turning into a battlefield.[/QUOTE] France got fucked over because instead of trying to actually integrate them with French society, it just left them to their own devices.
[QUOTE=NotMeh;48646223]You people are all so fucking naively optimistic about this, it's hilarious and really sad These refugees are not going to leave when the war is over You will not be able to deport any significant number of them This will end in riots, demands and other violence Mark my words, because I am certain that you will bitterly regret yours[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ruski v2.0;48648092]I joked earlier but I honestly see this turning into race wars somewhere down the line. It has been predicted that Europe would undergo a form of racial conflict in the future but I didn't think it would be this soon.[/QUOTE] Man you guys just eat that negative shit up, eh? Europe has been dealing with mass immigration for ages and this event, while big, isn't going to tip any scales. It's baseless fear mongering.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48647942]Yeah, I'm sure that will work well with all the women, children, elderly and disabled. These people fled a warzone for a reason - to [I]not[/I] have to risk their lives in a fight.[/QUOTE] Yes, that is what I meant; we take only the most capable; women, children, elderly and disabled who fled, because they didn't want to fight, among those 2-4 million refugees...
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