• Chelsea Manning has been missing for six days
    62 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Cructo;51189908]So do you think there should've been no solitary confinement and allow the suicide to take place?[/QUOTE] How the fuck does not putting her in solitary allow her to commit suicide? What even is this line of reasoning?
[QUOTE=Cructo;51189908]So do you think there should've been no solitary confinement and allow the suicide to take place?[/QUOTE] No, I think treating a suicide as an escape attempt is absolutely barbaric.
If suicide is gonna take place, moving her wouldn't do a thing. Like someone said, she could bang her head repeatedly until death or have a hidden shiv. Many scenarios open up regardless of the location. It's just the matter of looking very hard. Sucks all of this is going on, and wish this thing never happened in the first place.
[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;51189974]If suicide is gonna take place, moving her wouldn't do a thing. Like someone said, she could bang her head repeatedly until death or have a hidden shiv. Many scenarios open up regardless of the location. It's just the matter of looking very hard. Sucks all of this is going on, and wish this thing never happened in the first place.[/QUOTE] If shes on suicide watch shes also under 24 hour surveillance. This probably consists of either a camera in her room or a guard shining a light at her every 15 minutes to make sure she aint dead. [editline]11th October 2016[/editline] Thats assuming they even turn the lights in her cell off at night which they likely dont
[B]UPDATE:[/B] [QUOTE=Boing Boing]After being missing for seven days, whistleblower Chelsea Manning has made contact. Her prison warders threw her into solitary for a week and didn't tell her lawyers or friends where she was.[/QUOTE] Source: [url]https://boingboing.net/2016/10/11/chelsea-manning-has-surfaced-a.html[/url]
I'm relieved that she's not dead. Fuck them for putting her in solitary with no notice.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51189908]So do you think there should've been no solitary confinement and allow the suicide to take place?[/QUOTE] Are you daft? You don't need to put someone in solitary to stop them killing themselves
[QUOTE=kyle877;51189846]this mindset is disgusting[/QUOTE] I'm not advocating it so hop on down from your high horse. I'm not taking a stance in either direction, I'm just telling you how it actually works. [editline]12th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=maddogsamurai;51189974]If suicide is gonna take place, moving her wouldn't do a thing. Like someone said, she could bang her head repeatedly until death or have a hidden shiv. Many scenarios open up regardless of the location. It's just the matter of looking very hard. Sucks all of this is going on, and wish this thing never happened in the first place.[/QUOTE] Shes in a military prison, not a county drunk tank. There is literally no chance for her to get her hands on a chiv or anything else like that. And solitary is designed so a person cant kill themselves. Padded walls will prevent someone from beating themselves to death. [editline]12th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;51189985]If shes on suicide watch shes also under 24 hour surveillance. This probably consists of either a camera in her room or a guard shining a light at her every 15 minutes to make sure she aint dead. [editline]11th October 2016[/editline] Thats assuming they even turn the lights in her cell off at night which they likely dont[/QUOTE] If shes on suicide watch then shes in a 1x1 chainlink cell where she can barely sit down.
[QUOTE=SonicHitman;51186821]No one deserves solitary regardless of their crimes.[/QUOTE] I'm reading all this and almost certain I'm missing something. Solitary doesn't really seem that bad? If I had access to a comfy bed, good food and water, shower etc. Then I would probably enjoy it. Is it the lack of these things that makes it so terrible? A light switch would be good, but not strictly necessary. I know a few people that have moved out to the middle of nowhere specifically trying to be completely isolated. Before you ask, they do not have an internet connection.
[QUOTE=Tracker;51195745]I'm reading all this and almost certain I'm missing something. Solitary doesn't really seem that bad? If I had access to a comfy bed, good food and water, shower etc. Then I would probably enjoy it. Is it the lack of these things that makes it so terrible? A light switch would be good, but not strictly necessary. I know a few people that have moved out to the middle of nowhere specifically trying to be completely isolated. Before you ask, they do not have an internet connection.[/QUOTE] You know what those people who moved out to the middle of no where had? Freedom. Being away from all human contact, not of your own volition, and nothing to do for weeks on end is what drives a man insane. If you think that being in solitary would be enjoyable for you, go build a 1x1 chainlink cell and lock yourself in it in the dark with no human contact at all. How out of touch can you be?
[QUOTE=Anti Christ;51187040]I'm not surprised you believe that.[/QUOTE] Well I cant so why dont you explain it
[QUOTE=Tracker;51195745]I'm reading all this and almost certain I'm missing something. Solitary doesn't really seem that bad? If I had access to a comfy bed, good food and water, shower etc. Then I would probably enjoy it. Is it the lack of these things that makes it so terrible? A light switch would be good, but not strictly necessary. I know a few people that have moved out to the middle of nowhere specifically trying to be completely isolated. Before you ask, they do not have an internet connection.[/QUOTE] Solitary is hell on the mind, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. The people you know have the option to get new stimulus by talking a walk or just looking out the fucking window, someone in solitary has no outside stimulus. There's a reason why most of the UN considers it to "constitute cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment, if not, torture." [url=http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/vioincl7&div=52&id=&page=]7 Vienna J. on Int'l Const. L. 415 "7 Vienna J. on Int'l Const. L. 415 (2013)" explains it rather well on the first page[/url]
I'm more just curious which aspect of it is so terrible. Maybe there are other solutions. I realise it's a Science Fiction show, but Dark Matter had a version of solitary confinement that had people who had attacked other inmates in a kind of virtual reality that they could come and go from (between that and the normal grey cell) Edit: I just mean to say, lack of human interaction[B] in and of itself [/B]doesn't seem so terrible. As alluded to earlier, lack of space, freedom (though, you don't really have any freedom, it is prison after all) and stimuli is. If all it would take to stop people going mentally unstable is a gesture-driven screen on a wall with the contents of a library, why aren't we doing that?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51189985]If shes on suicide watch shes also under 24 hour surveillance. This probably consists of either a camera in her room or a guard shining a light at her every 15 minutes to make sure she aint dead.[/QUOTE] Because sleep deprivation is really good at keeping people mentally healthy... while there are cheap and effective alternatives like a 10 dollar blue tooth heartbeat wristband, or heck have an ultraviolet camera set up on their cell (the quality you would need for such a controlled environment is literally 25 bucks) Surely both of these options are less then the cost of a flashlight + security guard passing by every 15 minutes. Geeze, it almost sounds like US prisons are just suicide factories.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51196945]Because sleep deprivation is really good at keeping people mentally healthy... while there are cheap and effective alternatives like a 10 dollar blue tooth heartbeat wristband, or heck have an ultraviolet camera set up on their cell (the quality you would need for such a controlled environment is literally 25 bucks) Surely both of these options are less then the cost of a flashlight + security guard passing by every 15 minutes. Geeze, it almost sounds like US prisons are just suicide factories.[/QUOTE] Are you really implying a guard checking on someone every 15 minutes contributes to suicide through sleep deprivation? If you're that tired you'll roll over and go to sleep, it's not like the guard is coming over and shoving the light into their face. That heartbeat wristband isn't really going to tell you if they're attempting to get a hold of something to use as a means to kill themselves. Prison suicide is a huge issue, but I don't see any reason to believe flashlights are a contributing factor.
[QUOTE=Anderan;51197001]Are you really implying a guard checking on someone every 15 minutes contributes to suicide through sleep deprivation? If you're that tired you'll roll over and go to sleep, [B]it's not like the guard is coming over and shoving the light into their face.[/B] That heartbeat wristband isn't really going to tell you if they're attempting to get a hold of something to use as a means to kill themselves. Prison suicide is a huge issue, but I don't see any reason to believe flashlights are a contributing factor.[/QUOTE] Ive read rapports that is actually almost exactly what happens since the guard wants to do everything they can to prevent them from killing themselves on their watch, since then its on them... often requiring to show their face to the light to see if they are still breathing and stuff. Not saying this is what [I]always[/I] happens, but it does happen. Especially since its up to the discretion of the guard and he is held partially responsible if they do kill themselves on suicide watch. read the controvercies part on this link to understand the concepts i talk about. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch[/url]
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51197055]Ive read rapports that is actually almost exactly what happens since the guard wants to do everything they can to prevent them from killing themselves on their watch, since then its on them... often requiring to show their face to the light to see if they are still breathing and stuff. Not saying this is what [I]always[/I] happens, but it does happen. Especially since its up to the discretion of the guard and he is held partially responsible if they do kill themselves on suicide watch. read the controvercies part on this link to understand the concepts i talk about. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch[/url][/QUOTE] Yea, her story is partially bullshit. You are stripped naked but you are forced to wear a safety smock like this [IMG]http://seattletimes.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/today/files/2014/06/YbarraCourt-239x300.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51197055]Ive read rapports that is actually almost exactly what happens since the guard wants to do everything they can to prevent them from killing themselves on their watch, since then its on them... often requiring to show their face to the light to see if they are still breathing and stuff. Not saying this is what [I]always[/I] happens, but it does happen. Especially since its up to the discretion of the guard and he is held partially responsible if they do kill themselves on suicide watch. read the controvercies part on this link to understand the concepts i talk about. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch[/url][/QUOTE] The wikipedia section is largely unsourced with the single exception of an instance reported in 1998. You're gonna have to link those "rapports". I have no idea if the way suicide watch is handled now is any different than in 1998 (I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't) but I'd prefer to have some thing more recent.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51197055]Ive read rapports that is actually almost exactly what happens since the guard wants to do everything they can to prevent them from killing themselves on their watch, since then its on them... often requiring to show their face to the light to see if they are still breathing and stuff. Not saying this is what [I]always[/I] happens, but it does happen. Especially since its up to the discretion of the guard and he is held partially responsible if they do kill themselves on suicide watch. read the controvercies part on this link to understand the concepts i talk about. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch[/url][/QUOTE] As someone who did 15 minutes checks on suicidal patients in a military mental health unit I can tell you that very likely, this 'guard' in our scenario wouldn't be waking manning up by using a flashlight and probably isn't waking her up every 15 minutes to make sure she's alive. You can check if someone is breathing by observing their chest rise and fall.
[QUOTE=Tracker;51196594]I'm more just curious which aspect of it is so terrible. Maybe there are other solutions. I realise it's a Science Fiction show, but Dark Matter had a version of solitary confinement that had people who had attacked other inmates in a kind of virtual reality that they could come and go from (between that and the normal grey cell) Edit: I just mean to say, lack of human interaction[B] in and of itself [/B]doesn't seem so terrible. As alluded to earlier, lack of space, freedom (though, you don't really have any freedom, it is prison after all) and stimuli is. If all it would take to stop people going mentally unstable is a gesture-driven screen on a wall with the contents of a library, why aren't we doing that?[/QUOTE] Humans need interaction and stimuli of some kind to stay sane. Whether it be talking with another human, reading a book, or petting a dog. You get none of these things in solitary and you have nothing to occupy your mind with. I don't get whats so hard to understand about this. Just because some people are fine with being social outcasts is not equivocal to solitary confinement.
Isn't complete darkness a punishment that violates rights?
[QUOTE=The bird Man;51197741]Isn't complete darkness a punishment that violates rights?[/QUOTE] It would fall under cruel and unusual punishment, you would need a lawyer though to push that.
Been to Fort Leavenworth, seen/interacted with the prisoners several times. Pretty sure Chelsea Manning is more in solitary for her protection, since what she did placed the lives of a lot of soldiers at risk, and those inmates are still considered military servicemembers, both by the military and by each other. In the eyes of the inmates, Chelsea Manning committed treason and risked the lives of the people who would risk their lives to protect her. tl;dr inmate mentality could be the real reason why Chelsea Manning is in solitary
From someone who has spent time in jail/prison, I can tell you exactly how these things work... First off, there is no "chain link" suicide cell, like one user had mentioned. Also, just because it's a military prison, does NOT mean that you wouldn't be able to obtain the necessary materials to make a shank. .. gathering the things you need take time, and time is all you have. A person on suicide watch is stripped naked and put into a suicide smock exactly like the one another user and posted... in the county jail here, anyway... In prison, you're stripped naked and put into a jumpsuit, as the rest of the inmates in general population don't wear them. You are put into a cell with a camera and have a guard come by every 15 minutes. If your face is covered, the guard will ask you to uncover it. Sometimes, you may even be woken up so they can check on you. As far as your housing, you will be housed in a bare room (sometimes with a toilet, sometimes just a literal hole in the center of the room) with usually a bunk or a mat on the floor or in a "boat". The only personal property you will be allowed is 3 books (not including a Bible), toothbrush, toothpaste, comb, and soap. You will be given the option to shower once a day, all your meals will be given to you on a plastic tray with a makeshift spoon made out of a paper cup cut in half diagonally or, a "special" piece of paper that you tear into a little spoon. The light remains on 24/7. That pretty much sums up a person's living conditions on SW. [editline]15th October 2016[/editline] Also, just to clarify, the "3 books not including the bible" thing also goes to inmates in solitary. I have been in solitary in my prisons IMU. The selection isn't that great, though.
[media]https://twitter.com/SaveManning/status/786205123328417792[/media] [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/chelsea-manning-solitary-confinement-suicide-attempt-military?CMP=share_btn_tw"]Apparently she was put in solitary as punishment because of her suicide attempt in July[/URL]
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51190303]I'm not advocating it so hop on down from your high horse. I'm not taking a stance in either direction, I'm just telling you how it actually works. [editline]12th October 2016[/editline] Shes in a military prison, not a county drunk tank. There is literally no chance for her to get her hands on a chiv or anything else like that. And solitary is designed so a person cant kill themselves. Padded walls will prevent someone from beating themselves to death. [editline]12th October 2016[/editline] If shes on suicide watch then shes in a 1x1 chainlink cell where she can barely sit down.[/QUOTE] She can get a shank with time. Solitary doesn't have padded walls, and anyone on SW won't be in the "rubber room", and SW isn't a chain link cell. It's a section of solitary or, solitary in general.
[QUOTE=IceTea;51209918]She can get a shank with time. Solitary doesn't have padded walls, and anyone on SW won't be in the "rubber room", and SW isn't a chain link cell. It's a section of solitary or, solitary in general.[/QUOTE] I appreciate that you spent time in prison, but that doesnt make you an expert on the subject. Unless youve been to a military prison, your experience is probably not going to be the same. Things are a little tighter there bud. [Img]http://www.whatthefolly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/WTF-Coleman-pic-22-640x354.png[/img] This photo isnt from a military prison, but this is generally what suicide watch cells look like in a maximum security prison.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51209972]I appreciate that you spent time in prison, but that doesnt make you an expert on the subject. Unless youve been to a military prison, your experience is probably not going to be the same. Things are a little tighter there bud. [Img]http://www.whatthefolly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/WTF-Coleman-pic-22-640x354.png[/img] This photo isnt from a military prison, but this is generally what suicide watch cells look like in a maximum security prison.[/QUOTE] There's different levels of suicide watch. [editline]15th October 2016[/editline] Not all constitute being locked in a cage. [editline]15th October 2016[/editline] WSP, Walla Walla is about as tight as it gets "bud'. [editline]15th October 2016[/editline] Also, the cages are for a very short duration. That's just till someone can take someone down off the highest level of SW, I believe.
People are in those cages for no longer than a few hours, the're waiting for transfer. [editline]16th October 2016[/editline] People need to stop googling shit and being like "YEAH! THIS FIRST IMAGE RESULT IS THE TRUTH!"
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