Bernie Sanders Introduces Bill to Prevent Corporate Tax Dodging - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SirJon;51936531]This wouldn't have done too much good since those corporations are evading tax because it's too high in the first place, if the laffer curve is to be believed[/QUOTE] Then why don't we just lower it to 0 because they can't dodge taxes if there are no taxes :vs: Or we could make them pay their fucking dues, and stop being such greedy cunts hoarding trillions of dollars in foreign bank accounts that sits there and does nothing when it could be greasing the US economy.

The way I see it, if they're not going to (ie refuse to) pay taxes, they should definitely pay more into their workforce. There is absolutely no reason for a massively profitable corporation to not grant their workers the same benefits of their success as they receive, because their workers are part of that success.

[QUOTE=Chaitin;51937098]Tell me what are those so-called "economic reasons"?[/QUOTE] "I want to have more money" money's economic as shit ofc!

[QUOTE=sgman91;51937105]They made the money outside of the US, they keep the money outside of the US, and then don't pay US taxes on that money. This is called a "loophole" or "tax dodging" when it's really just doing exactly what the law says they're allowed to do.[/QUOTE] This is money made inside the US, taken outside thanks to loopholes and stored in a tax haven. That money belongs in the American economy. Not a foreign tax haven.

Will fail like almost all of his bills.

[QUOTE=Robert Baron;51937880]Will fail like almost all of his bills.[/QUOTE] Yeah I used to love him too until he decided to support someone who shares a majority of his social views and not the guy who is like, totally outside like the, uh, system, man.

[QUOTE]the Corporate Tax Dodging Prevention Act would tax the $2.4 trillion that American corporations currently hold offshore at the full corporate tax rate of 35 percent.[/QUOTE] Why does the US feel entitled to money that wasn't made within it's borders, and isn't being used within it's borders? This money was made elsewhere, and the US has no right to it. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=LtKyle2;51937862]This is money made inside the US, taken outside thanks to loopholes and stored in a tax haven. That money belongs in the American economy. Not a foreign tax haven.[/QUOTE] So it was taxed when it was made, then?

[QUOTE=Ridge;51937894]Why does the US feel entitled to money that wasn't made within it's borders, and isn't being used within it's borders? This money was made elsewhere, and the US has no right to it. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] So it was taxed when it was made, then?[/QUOTE] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven#Capital_held_offshore[/URL] [Quote]The [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Journal"]Wall Street Journal[/URL] in a study of 60 large U.S. companies found that they deposited $166 billion in offshore accounts in 2012, sheltering over 40% of their profits from U.S. taxes.[SUP][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven#cite_note-ThurmLinebaugh-11"][11][/URL][/SUP] Similarly, Desai, Foley and Hines in the Journal of Public Economics found that: "in 1999, 59% of U.S. firms with significant foreign operations had affiliates in tax haven countries", although they did not define "significant" for this purpose.[SUP][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven#cite_note-30"][30][/URL][/SUP] In 2009, the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office"]U.S. Government Accountability Office[/URL] (GAO) reported that 83 of the 100 largest U.S. publicly traded corporations and 63 of the 100 largest contractors for the U.S. federal government were maintaining subsidiaries in countries generally considered havens for avoiding taxes. The GAO did not review the companies' transactions to independently verify that the subsidiaries helped the companies reduce their tax burden, but said only that historically the purpose of such subsidiaries is to cut tax costs.[/Quote]

[QUOTE=Ridge;51937894] So it was taxed when it was made, then?[/QUOTE] are you trying to imply that tax evasion doesn't exist in the US?

Nothing in that quote is proving what you are trying to prove (not to mention that the sources are paywalled and can't be checked for context). It just says that 40% of profits are sheltered from taxes, not that that 40% is made within US borders. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Mining Bill;51938004]are you trying to imply that tax evasion doesn't exist in the US?[/QUOTE] Yes, of course it does, but it's already illegal and is strongly pursued by the IRS. Using "loopholes" is not tax evasion. It's following the law, even if the law is idiotic.

[QUOTE] Using "loopholes" is not tax evasion. It's following the law, even if the law is idiotic [/QUOTE] We agree I also think that the law should be changed to fix this

[QUOTE=da space core;51938055]We agree I also think that the law should be changed to fix this[/QUOTE] It's hard to have a real conversation about the topic when people like Bernie Sanders go around calling them "tax dodgers." As a side note, I just read part of the bill and it seems to be about income made outside of the US, although I will say that it's almost impossible to understand because of the legalese.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938185]It's hard to have a real conversation about the topic when people like Bernie Sanders go around calling them "tax dodgers." As a side note, I just read part of the bill and it's clearly about income made outside of the US, although I will say that it's almost impossible to understand because of the legalese.[/QUOTE] When you use a loophole, you are dodging a tax. He's just calling them what they are.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51938261]When you use a loophole, you are dodging a tax. He's just calling them what they are.[/QUOTE] In that case, basically everyone is a "tax dodger" (or at least wishes they could be one). I don't know a single person who won't use every legal method available to get out of paying taxes.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938273]In that case, basically everyone is a "tax dodger" (or at least wishes they could be one). I don't know a single person who won't use every legal method available to get out of paying taxes.[/QUOTE] So be it.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938273]In that case, basically everyone is a "tax dodger" (or at least wishes they could be one). I don't know a single person who won't use every legal method available to get out of paying taxes.[/QUOTE] The moral ground though is clear. If there was some legal loophole that allowed people to take $1,000 from one other person's bank account, it would still be reprehensible to do so. Moreover when it isn't some individual struggling to make ends meet, but a massive company raking in profits. Which is part of the problem, most of these loopholes only help the people who don't need the help to get by in the first place.

[QUOTE=DaMastez;51938303]The moral ground though is clear. If there was some legal loophole that allowed people to take $1,000 from one other person's bank account, it would still be reprehensible to do so.[/QUOTE] How is that applicable? Every person who doesn't pay taxes is equally taking money from the total government pot of money. [QUOTE]Moreover when it isn't some individual struggling to make ends meet, but a massive company raking in profits. Which is part of the problem, most of these loopholes only help the people who don't need the help to get by in the first place.[/QUOTE] Far more of our nation's income comes from regular people. Corporate taxes only make up ~11% of total federal revenue. The logic should be consistent. If trying to legally not pay taxes is "tax dodging," then everyone wants to be a "tax dodger."

We really should just not tax corporations anything at all and live entirely on their good graces [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] otherwise we risk sending them to other nations

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51938392]We really should just not tax corporations anything at all and live entirely on their good graces [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] otherwise we risk sending them to other nations[/QUOTE] TBH, we shouldn't tax corporations. It's a silly tax because it just gets shifted to either the wages of the workers, the shareholders, or the customers. It's an incredibly indirect tax. A better choice would be to tax those things directly as a replacement of the corporate tax.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938415]TBH, we shouldn't tax corporations. It's a silly tax because it just gets shifted to either the wages of the workers, the shareholders, or the customers. It's an incredibly indirect tax. A better choice would be to tax those things directly as a replacement of the corporate tax.[/QUOTE] So corporations and corporate entities and companies and anyone that isn't an individual shouldn't pay any form of taxation on anything that isn't a good? sure, I'm sure that'll work out well for me and you, and I'm sure it'll work out better for corporations. we only deserve to live on their good graces, i'm glad you agree

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938273]In that case, basically everyone is a "tax dodger" (or at least wishes they could be one). I don't know a single person who won't use every legal method available to get out of paying taxes.[/QUOTE] ah if everyone's doing it that must make it okay

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938415]TBH, we shouldn't tax corporations. It's a silly tax because it just gets shifted to either the wages of the workers, the shareholders, or the customers. It's an incredibly indirect tax. A better choice would be to tax those things directly as a replacement of the corporate tax.[/QUOTE] Yes we absolutely should. Corporations are people, per Citizens United decisions.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51938422]So corporations and corporate entities and companies and anyone that isn't an individual shouldn't pay any form of taxation on anything that isn't a good? sure, I'm sure that'll work out well for me and you, and I'm sure it'll work out better for corporations. we only deserve to live on their good graces, i'm glad you agree[/QUOTE] Corporate taxes are already shifted to individuals (There's no other possibility). So I'm not quite sure what you're saying. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Llamaguy;51938434]Yes we absolutely should. Corporations are people, per Citizens United decisions.[/QUOTE] Citizen's United said that corporations have free speech because they are associations of individuals. Their rights as "people" only extend as far as associations of people have rights. It's not nearly as clear as just saying "corporations are people."

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938436]Corporate taxes are already shifted to individuals. So I'm not quite sure what you're saying.[/QUOTE] I understand fully that corporations do everything in their power to pay as little as possible, shift the numbers around as much as possible, and shift costs on the consumer at every avenue, I get that. Should we surrender the concept of government to the corporate? You hate government, and it's impossible to prevent corruption, should we not then, logically just have a "Corporatist" world? Where the only thing that matters are corporations? You're literally okay with companies being taxed 0%. Okay, so then how does that end up working for society?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51938461]I understand fully that corporations do everything in their power to pay as little as possible, shift the numbers around as much as possible, and shift costs on the consumer at every avenue, I get that. Should we surrender the concept of government to the corporate? You hate government, and it's impossible to prevent corruption, should we not then, logically just have a "Corporatist" world? Where the only thing that matters are corporations? You're literally okay with companies being taxed 0%. Okay, so then how does that end up working for society?[/QUOTE] I don't think you entirely read what I said. I said that since corporate taxes are shifted to individuals, we ought to just directly tax those individuals. We get the same effect without the middleman causing confusion. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] I also don't hate government. I think government, or any large entity like corporations, are prone to corruption. The big difference between the government and corporations is that government can arrest/fine/etc. you in order to force you to do what it wants. I don't like corporations either. They are no better intentioned than government. They just don't have the ability to force you to do what they want outside of using government.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938463]I don't think you entirely read what I said. I said that since corporate taxes are shifted to individuals, we ought to just directly tax those individuals. We get the same effect without the middleman causing confusion. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] I also don't hate government. I think government, or any large entity like corporations, are prone to corruption. The big difference between the government and corporation is that government can arrest/fine/etc. you in order to force you to do what it wants.[/QUOTE] So you and me, should be taxed a vastly, vastly, vastly higher rate, so that companies can be honest with the fact that they don't want to pay taxes, won't pay taxes, refuse to pay taxes, ideologically oppose taxes, etc okay? How's that end up working? Billionaires are unaffected, millionaires are mostly unaffected, but a middle income individual? That doesn't benefit me. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] Corporations like Exon Mobil have forced me to live in a world that will undoubtedly go through severe changes thanks to their actions. They haven't used violence, no, but they sure as shit have affected my life, and they haven't been fined 1 fucking cent. Sure you can chop that up entirely to the government but I don't trust government, or corporations, but you seem to trust corporations to always do the right thing

If corporations always do the right thing, we wouldn't have global warming, massive wealth inequality, and awful worker rights.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938322]How is that applicable? Every person who doesn't pay taxes is equally taking money from the total government pot of money.[/quote] In the same way society looks differently upon someone stealing bread to eat versus someone stealing a TV? Is it that hard to understand that companies and individuals that are flush with cash, and then spend some of that cash to pay experts to find every loophole in the retardedly complex tax code instead of just paying their fair share of taxes--as intended--are morally bankrupt? [quote]Far more of our nation's income comes from regular people. Corporate taxes only make up ~11% of total federal revenue. The logic should be consistent. If trying to legally not pay taxes is "tax dodging," then everyone wants to be a "tax dodger."[/QUOTE] It isn't just corporations who tax dodge, it's their wealthy CEOs as well. Wealth inequality exists, and is rising.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51938470]So you and me, should be taxed a vastly, vastly, vastly higher rate, so that companies can be honest with the fact that they don't want to pay taxes, won't pay taxes, refuse to pay taxes, ideologically oppose taxes, etc[/QUOTE] It's not that they don't want to, won't, or refuse to pay taxes. Corporations can't pay taxes on their own. They MUST pay their taxes by either lowering wages, decreasing shareholder dividends, or increasing cost to consumers. Every dollar that a corporation makes comes from consumers and every dollar it spends goes to workers, contractors, shareholders, or some other individual. The corporate structure is just a middle-man. [QUOTE]Corporations like Exon Mobil have forced me to live in a world that will undoubtedly go through severe changes thanks to their actions. They haven't used violence, no, but they sure as shit have affected my life, and they haven't been fined 1 fucking cent. [/QUOTE] You can blame the people who buy their product for that. If Exxon didn't exist, someone else would be there to fulfill the demand. The demand would be fulfilled and I'm glad it is. Oil and coal was necessary for the wealth of the modern world. [QUOTE]Sure you can chop that up entirely to the government but I don't trust government, or corporations, but you seem to trust corporations to always do the right thing[/QUOTE] When did I say or even intimate that? Corporations do bad things ALL THE TIME. I don't even like big business. It's full of corruption.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51938322]How is that applicable? Every person who doesn't pay taxes is equally taking money from the total government pot of money. Far more of our nation's income comes from regular people. Corporate taxes only make up ~11% of total federal revenue. The logic should be consistent. If trying to legally not pay taxes is "tax dodging," then everyone wants to be a "tax dodger."[/QUOTE] The point of taxing businesses is to have tax paid. Plainly and simply put: If you have a tax on businesses @ 5% on all profits which amounted to $100, then wouldn't $5 be paid in tax? You'd think so, but through some miracle there were some people who found some specific wordings that allowed them to somehow pay less tax, strange... Are they allowed to? Yes, but that doesn't mean it's right.